Referendum on Stan Bowman post-18-19 Season

Discussion in 'Chicago Blackhawks' started by Kaners Bald Spot, Sep 27, 2018.

?

If the season goes as badly as we all expect, would you keep Bowman around past this season?

  1. Yes, his drafting is really good, and makes up for his deficiencies elsewhere

    57.1%
  2. No, his drafting does not make up for his other deficiencies as a GM

    42.9%
  1. Kaners Bald Spot

    Kaners Bald Spot #Lose for Hughes #Crapo for Kakko

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2011
    Messages:
    1,156
    Likes Received:
    467
    Trophy Points:
    94
    Location:
    Far West Chicagoland
    Bowman's report card on his GM duties from 2010-2018, according to KBS
    Drafting: A
    No superstars yet, but he's really good at finding NHL talent. He only had one top ten pick, and Boqvist looks really good so far.
    Trades: Incomplete. If I had to grade him I'd give him a C.
    Bowman has not been negotiating from a position of strength, as he was cap strapped for the majority of his time here. Is it really fair to judge him for trades that were cap dumps? Nobody's getting fair value when you have to trade someone to get under the cap.
    FA signings: C
    Half the time I don't know what he's doing, but the other half he picks up solid depth players. I think having to work with Q gets him in trouble more than he otherwise would.
    Cap Management: D
    This is what he's been worst at, mostly for falling in love with his own players too much. Signing Seabrook and Kruger to those contracts was inexcusable.

    Overall, He gets a C, based on the way college GPA is calculated. He's great at drafting, but average or worse at everything else. With drafting being the most important skill needed at this point in time, would you keep him around?
     
  2. No Fun Shogun

    No Fun Shogun 34-38-61-10-13-15

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    47,366
    Likes Received:
    1,866
    Trophy Points:
    156
    Occupation:
    Illegal Ill Eagle
    Location:
    An unspecified place on Google Maps, apparently
    Assuming that we miss the playoffs by a healthy margin again, my money would be on the team keeping Bowman, moving on from Q, and tying Bowman's future with the organization to his next coach's tenure. If things go well from there, he's here long term (even if he wants to upgrade coaches at some point down the line). If things stay stagnant or get worse, then he'll probably be gone after another two years.

    Given his level of success in the past, I think he's earned the benefit of the doubt to actually initiate a rebuild if need be.
     
  3. b1e9a8r5s

    b1e9a8r5s Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2015
    Messages:
    9,465
    Likes Received:
    1,443
    Trophy Points:
    94
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    I don't understand these sort of questions.

    What do you do if this happens, without knowing why or how it happens? If we are talking about what to do at the end of the season, why not wait to see how the season plays out.
     
  4. TLEHMANN

    TLEHMANN Party like Kaner

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2015
    Messages:
    9,071
    Likes Received:
    1,284
    Trophy Points:
    94
    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    His drafting has been good. The contracts and the salary cap management have been downright awful. Deals like Rutta, Panik, Kruger, SEABROOK. MANNING. They all add up. The only real big mistake is Seabrook but when you add up overpaying every single time for player after player it adds up. How much of the drafting is even him? Mark Kelly gets no credit? Our pro scouts get no credit? I was a big Bowman guy, but if this season is bad. We move on from both.
     
  5. hawksfan50

    hawksfan50 Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2002
    Messages:
    8,095
    Likes Received:
    307
    Trophy Points:
    169
    It was more Q's fault than Stan's...Q ran a Country Club for coddled vets...You simply cannot have a $10.5 1C post 3 consecutive years of just 58,58 and then 9nly 52 points ts with declining goal totals...who refused to bench Seabrook till he lost 20lbs via bag-skates so he could move again...or who did not recognize his aging #1 dman was no longer reliable for so many minutes a game as he was in his youth...perhaps toning back the minutes or benching to insist he get his mind back in the game and do more than miss on his shots,fumble pucks and commit weak stick-checls...you knew that this eventually would happen when Keith went geezer ..but you never expected it to begin as early as 33-34 and here we are 1 yr later and Keith still doing the weak cstick-checking and getting panted
    too often...Bad habits crept in way too
    Oo early
    ...because Q tolerated poor in enthusiastic play from his key vets...

    The get back Saad to help Toes move has not worked and it appears Saad cannot produce with Kane either....hard to believe Stam was the one with this great idea...it reeks more of a Q demand...

    So I cannot blame Stan when Q deserves most of the blame...
     
  6. piteus

    piteus Registered User

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2015
    Messages:
    7,237
    Likes Received:
    1,200
    Trophy Points:
    94
    Location:
    NYC
    Stan sticks around. The Wirtz are a loyal bunch. They'll let Stan hire a NEW coach and fail before they make a move in the front office. There's enough talent in a uptrending farm system to stay patient with Stan. That's just my opinion.
     
    Pez68 and KennyWharramPeace like this.
  7. Dont Toews Me Bro

    Dont Toews Me Bro Registered User

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2018
    Messages:
    1,338
    Likes Received:
    535
    Trophy Points:
    81
    Gender:
    Male
    He'd already be gone if I were running things. Q would stay with the new GM deciding his fate.
     
    KennyWharramPeace likes this.
  8. deytookerjaabs

    deytookerjaabs Johnny Paycheck's Tank Advisor

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2010
    Messages:
    8,429
    Likes Received:
    605
    Trophy Points:
    109
    Location:
    Nashville
    He's made bad signings & cap hits but there's a **** ton of those in this league....though this particular offseason was the biggest head scratcher whereas in the past his FA's & Trades were average to above average IMO when disregarding the fact that cap dumps were essential. Obviously you're not comparing him to every other franchise? Other teams that sign tight contracts are also tight caps wise due to necessity and often lack the wealth of top end talent the Hawks had for years.

    So, if you sit there are drool over all those well budgeted teams who contend but never got over the hump year in and year out simply because they didn't have those extra pieces....you're being downright stupid...it's cup or bust..every year IMO./

    When you move a team that dumps a ton of depth and then get them not only back to contention but to a team that came inches within a Stanley Cup 3 Peat??? C'mon, we had a premier roster for those prime years that only awful coaching could screw up. Uh, I even think we were atop the West the season before last, no? Before that playoff train wreck.

    I'm on board with the fact that the past season was abysmal for a myriad of reasons along with the offseason acquisitions were ...well....WTF.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2018
  9. Robsker

    Robsker Registered User

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2014
    Messages:
    905
    Likes Received:
    116
    Trophy Points:
    46
    OK. people will probably not like this, but...

    As regards drafting, I suppose we can assess Bowman b/c we know who was available to him and what options he had when he made his decisions. And he has done really, really well there.

    To assume that we can assess trades is just not overly rational. We do not know what options were available from which to choose when he chose. We do not know the interplay he had with other GM's and what the variables were. We do not have enough information to adequately see the big picture re: trades. So any of us from the safety of our keyboards that thinks we can really assess this is well... kidding themselves. We can say whether we liked the result --- but that is it. We do not have enough info to assess the process so as to evaluate "how well Bowman did' with what was available at that time in that setting. He was, generally, Cap strapped with many of the trades - but the details we cannot know.

    The same is true for Cap management. We can assert that Bowman overpaid some guys - and that seems clear. But again, we only know a partial picture re: how those contracts came about.

    Finally, and speaking only for myself here -- as a professor and a pastor, I am really not qualified to grade a guy like Bowman on what he does (any more than he could grade me on what I do). Only other GM's who are in that trade and have the inside knowledge and the experience in that field can grade another guy in that field. All I can do is say whether I like his drafting (and I do) and that re: trades, cap management and even FA signings, we do not know who was willing to come or any of the behind the scenes variables that Bowman had to deal with. So, we do not have enough information nor do we have the expertise to judge the guy (unless, of course, you have been a GM before and are thus qualified to judge).

    Those qualified to judge --- other GMs seem to respect Bowman quite a bit. Their assessment is far more meaningful than is ours. I would imagine Bowman laughing at the temerity of us - a bunch of internet posters - grading him.
     
    Pez68, Kaners Bald Spot and migi like this.
  10. Race Bannon

    Race Bannon Registered User

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2015
    Messages:
    2,182
    Likes Received:
    323
    Trophy Points:
    79
    Gender:
    Male
    I will admit he is very good at drafting for the most part. Especially considering the position he has been drafting from usually (bottom 5). So for that kudos. For cap management in its totality he is a C- at most for me. My only question is how much pull Mcd had on the 7 contract because I speculate quite a bit.
     
  11. Kdotsection88

    Kdotsection88 Kaner? I hardly know her

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2017
    Messages:
    945
    Likes Received:
    343
    Trophy Points:
    59
    If this season goes badly Q is almost certainly gone, however, I dont think stan is fired also. He stays for atleast the 19-20 season and if that ends similar to how this past year and this upcoming season will go, then he should be fired. Still not sure if he would be even then
     
  12. KennyWharramPeace

    KennyWharramPeace Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2018
    Messages:
    183
    Likes Received:
    77
    Trophy Points:
    23
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Bar Stool Expert
    Location:
    The Nearest Gin Joint
    Persuasive case made. And believe me, I type this thru gritted teeth as am not now, nor ever have been, Bowman jr impressed.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2018
  13. Game suspension

    Game suspension Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2018
    Messages:
    298
    Likes Received:
    72
    Trophy Points:
    23
    Bowman has never rebuilt a team ever before. He inherited a stacked team. What makes anyone think he can rebuild one?

    I'll give Q more credit than Bowman but the credit goes to the players. The reason the hawks were great in that run was that their best players WERE their best players. They were extremely clutch. Toews, Kane, Hossa, Sharp, Keith, Seabrook, Hammer and Crawford all are the reason they won. I would give Kane the edge on the go to guy but it was REALLY competitive. Really has nothing to do with Bowman.

    But I am also in the camp of leave this thread for the end of the season.
     
  14. BK

    BK "Goalie Apologist" Sponsor

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2011
    Messages:
    19,619
    Likes Received:
    3,854
    Trophy Points:
    156
    Occupation:
    Product Deveolpment/Supply Chain
    Location:
    Minneapolis, MN
    Except for 2010 and 2012.
     
  15. Hawkaholic

    Hawkaholic Registered User

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2006
    Messages:
    21,426
    Likes Received:
    1,454
    Trophy Points:
    169
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    London, Ont.
    Clean house. Bowman hasn't helped himself or Q in the last 3 years. Q hasn't helped the players or himself in the last 3.

    I'm ok with them trading the vets too if it goes badly. No player should be untouchable that's older than 27
     
    BobbyJet likes this.
  16. BobbyJet

    BobbyJet Losing is for losers!

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2010
    Messages:
    17,979
    Likes Received:
    1,530
    Trophy Points:
    139
    Location:
    Dundas, Ontario. Can
    Kane could be an exception unless the deal is too good to be true, but I hear you. It is the youth in the org. who will make up the new core.
     
  17. deytookerjaabs

    deytookerjaabs Johnny Paycheck's Tank Advisor

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2010
    Messages:
    8,429
    Likes Received:
    605
    Trophy Points:
    109
    Location:
    Nashville
    Judging from his drafting & former FA signings I'd guess guys like Manning or the Saad trade along with other dealings were done with Quenneville in mind. Some are absolutist and think there's zero banter between levels of leadership but I doubt the organization is lock & key compartmentalized.



    It's crazy how important team building is. IMO, the past decade or so you had Los Angeles...who was basically a fluke as they directly & indirectly benefit from a moron GM gifting them a first line on top of an already good team. The Penguins took forever to get back into the dance but did.

    Then, look at super stacked teams that never made it..or only made it once. Detroit with Rafalski/Lidstrom/Datsyuk/Zetterberg, Caps with Semin/Ovi/Backstrom/Green, 'Nucks with Sedins/Kesler/Erhoff/Edler/Luongo, or look at some of the Sharks' teams or even worse...how miserably the Oilers have failed their great draftees.

    Even with talent...getting the full roster rounded out with talent & the personnel to optimize executing said talent isn't anything to scoff at when we had 3 cups in a short period of time..almost 4.


    Bowman has his tenure, Q does too for his brilliance after the lockout of adapting that roster to a team D dynamo as that's where the league trended. But, the coach should be on the shorter leash here.
     
    KennyWharramPeace likes this.
  18. Blackhawks

    Blackhawks Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2007
    Messages:
    3,337
    Likes Received:
    147
    Trophy Points:
    111
    Horrible failure after the 15 cup, should have been canned the second he traded Panarin or the second he signed that Seabrook contract, TT and Danault are honorable mentions. These moves destroyed this team while no real draft replacements to cover all the holes that were made.
     
    BobbyJet and KennyWharramPeace like this.
  19. Jeffrey Lebowski

    Jeffrey Lebowski Luuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2009
    Messages:
    5,533
    Likes Received:
    262
    Trophy Points:
    84
    Location:
    North Side
    Exactly what NFS said in the second post.
     
    KennyWharramPeace likes this.
  20. Bubba88

    Bubba88 Toews = Savior

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    Messages:
    29,115
    Likes Received:
    196
    Trophy Points:
    111
    Location:
    Bavaria
    All we can grade is the end result. We don't know what is going on and who is available.
    Trading for him has been hit or miss like many other GMs. Stan always had the problem thinking about Cap and how to generate Salary.
    We don't know how much impact McD had on contracts like Bickell or Seabrook.
    It's not always easy to just let players walk, seen it time over time. That's what happens when you win together.
    We all knew Seabrook deal was bad, we knew he would decline but not that much. He went from top pair to bottom pair in 1 year...

    All I know is that there have been good and bad deals.
    It was hard to hit on FAs when you can't just spend 10 million on whatever you need and want. Sometimes you end up with minimum contract players that will play like minimum contract players.

    He was able to keep the team at the top for a long time.

    As of now I say he gets the benefit of the doubt and his new HC. If it works he keeps his job and if it doesn't you clean house.
     
  21. AmericanDream

    AmericanDream Adopted Canadian

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2005
    Messages:
    22,294
    Likes Received:
    7,343
    Trophy Points:
    201
    Location:
    Q's Mustache
    well, he went out and got us Kahun, that bumps his grade up for me as this kid can be a difference maker this season.

    Manning is going to be a roller coaster ride, we know this - he can be a solid #6/7, but I expect Q to overuse him like he did with Oesterle which will only magnify his deficiencies.

    Davidson has been fine, see above.

    Kunitz offers nothing but leadership, waste of a spot IMO with the amount of kids we have here, but he isn't going to hold us back.

    Ward has been brutal, I didn't like the signing but understood it - hopefully he is a very moot point and Crow comes out swinging in the next month

    Kahun is the real deal, passion, energy and skill. This kid is a player and if he hits the 20/25-20/25=40/50 point total, he alone saves the offseason.

    Bowman signed band aids to fix shotgun blasts, not happy with some of the above names, but if used correctly and now Kahun, this group can be serviceable.
     
    KennyWharramPeace likes this.
  22. Blackhawks

    Blackhawks Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2007
    Messages:
    3,337
    Likes Received:
    147
    Trophy Points:
    111

    Please define “serviceable”, this team will be lucky if they are not one of the 5 bottom teams in the league. Yay we got Kahun which has not proven anything until now yet we are praising Bowman for it? Even if he is a 50 point player(extremely unlikely) and this teams misses the playoffs he is still a horrible GM.
     
  23. Toews2Bickell

    Toews2Bickell It's Showtime

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2013
    Messages:
    9,336
    Likes Received:
    2,388
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Bowman really has been awful on the pro side of things since 2015. Some of it is due to the obvious disconnect with Q, which is why he should get JC before they make a decision on him.
     
    BobbyJet likes this.
  24. Game suspension

    Game suspension Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2018
    Messages:
    298
    Likes Received:
    72
    Trophy Points:
    23

    Bowman needs to go with Q. Clean the friggin' house and get new eyes on this **** show. There is no logic of having a 29 year old Kane on a tank team. Just idiotic.

    The hawks signed a 39 year old free agent forward. In 2018. Kinda says blow it up.
     
  25. DisgruntledHawkFan

    DisgruntledHawkFan Blackhawk Down

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2004
    Messages:
    38,638
    Likes Received:
    2,507
    Trophy Points:
    187
    Occupation:
    Heavy Machinery Operator
    Location:
    Chicago
    I’d like to see Stan with a coach that’s looking to play the style Stan is seemingly looking to build.
     
    ChiHawks10, CanadianHawks, BK and 3 others like this.

Share This Page

monitoring_string = "358c248ada348a047a4b9bb27a146148"