Post-Game Talk: Reds vs. Whites Scrimmage (Reds Take It 5-4)

[scrubadam]

I would try

Drouin Domi Lek

Drouin Domi Suzuki

and then

Drouin KK Domi

 

[Habs Icing]

Just saw the scrimmage. For what they're worth here are my observations.

That Suzuki line was great but they did have two goals scored on them. Hudon looked very good. I'm happy. I like this kid. Suzuki outshone Poehling who I thought had a bad game. Nick was probably the best player on the ice for either team. And his defensive game rivals KK. The kid is going to be a stud.

Brook looked like he regained his form. No brain farts. Was poised on defence.

I don't know why people picked KK as one of the top players. He was totally invisible. But it's a scrimmage

I was pleasantly surprised by Cousins. He'll be a decent 4th liner.

Evans had a good game. He might be a dark horse to stay with the team. If not, he'll be the first call up.

I like Lehky but I think he's out of place on that Domi line. If he doesn't work out I'd like to try Weal and Suzuki on Domi's right-wing.

Drouin. I'll keep my mouth shut till the season starts. I want him to meet expectations even though I would have to eat crow.

Those were basically the players I keyed on. I know it was just a scrimmage but Nick impressed the hell out of me. Suzuki and Hudon were the standouts IMHO.

 

[QuebecPride]

Yep. Suzuki looking better than Poehling today. Nobody would have bet that. Though no hitting....maybe we should have expected it...

It was a whole lot more physical than I expected. Maybe not December Habs-Bruins territory, but certainly October Habs-Panthers territory.

 

[Runner77]

It was a whole lot more physical than I expected. Maybe not December Habs-Bruins territory, but certainly October Habs-Panthers territory.

There were only a couple of physical sequences that I noticed. One involved Byron and another Weber. Can't say it there was a whole lot of it. It was a bit like an all star game otherwise.

 

[The Real Timo]

There were only a couple of physical sequences that I noticed. One involved Byron and another Weber. Can't say it there was a whole lot of it. It was a bit like an all star game otherwise.

Sounds like would have been pretty rough for Drouin. I hope he is ok.

 

[get25]

26 players scored 50 points, had 50% in face-offs and 500+ face-offs.
Danault is 24th in points, 21st in FO% and 7th in FO and FOW.

As for Domi, he is the worst in FO among all players with 70 points.
Certainly room for improvment...

 

[Adriatic]

Very tough to evaluate anything in these games without contact, pretty much useless. This type of environment is taylor made for the Hudons of the world, not surprised he and all the other softies fighting for a spot looked good.

 

[26Mats]

Very tough to evaluate anything in these games without contact, pretty much useless. This type of environment is taylor made for the Hudons of the world, not surprised he and all the other softies fighting for a spot looked good.

Hudon isn't soft. He's slow - or at least he was last year. But not soft.

Watch him fight off 3 players ina real game in ot, to get a pass through for a goal

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

If Domi were to remain at center, what would you say would be his optimum placement in the next 5 years? Top 6 or 9? Based on your comment, you don't seem to value him highly enough to be on your top line.

I think that people (fans) need to let go of their traditional ideas about how a team is constructed. The idea of #1,2,3 and 4 lines ordered by scoring is not something that teams actually discuss any more. If teams could spread their talent equally over 4 lines and be competitive the salary cap makes this impossible. It is more about balancing the top 9 and having an effective 4th line that they can roll out regularly without being a liability.

Moving forward I see this team with 3 natural centers in the top 9 (Kotkaniemi, Poehling and Danault) This leaves 6 winger spots in the top 9 (Gallagher, Caufield, Suzuki, Domi, and two of Tatar/Drouin /Ylonen). That has the potential to be a lethal top 9 with 3 strong two way centers and a ton of skill on the wings.

The only way that I see Domi hanging on to his role as a center is if we lose Danault in the expansion draft. Even if we lose Danault there will be a question of whether Suzuki or Domi should fill that void.

I absolutely love Domi's skill and drive but he is a liability defensively at times as he has a wingers mentality of staying high in the d-zone and leading the rush on the counter attack. If Domi is going to remain at center then he will have to receive softer/insulated minutes while Kotkaniemi and Poehling take the more difficult assignments. In a perfect world you don't want to have to protect any of your top 3 centers and as of right now we have exactly the type of centers that should be able to handle anything with Domi moving to the wing.

It is an unsupported conclusion to say that Domi's production increased because he moved to center. It may very well be completely coincidental as there are multiple reasons as to why his production increased. He was a winger as a rookie and had an outstanding season, clearly there were factors outside of his position that contributed to his reduced production.

I am not preaching to you as I know that you understand the way the NHL is changing The first paragraph was simply an axiom from which I could build a case for other readers.

 

[Adriatic]

Hudon isn't soft. He's slow - or at least he was last year. But not soft.

Watch him fight off 3 players ina real game in ot, to get a pass through for a goal

Way to cherry pick some random play. I'm sure there is a bunch of plays where he just gets bummed off the puck easily. But ok let's say he's not soft, he's still a lightweight and we have lineup littered with these types.

 

[Skip Bayless]

Hudon's problem is finishing and durability. He's not soft or too slow.

 

[26Mats]

Way to cherry pick some random play. I'm sure there is a bunch of plays where he just gets bummed off the puck easily. But ok let's say he's not soft, he's still a lightweight and we have lineup littered with these types.

Yes, I'm for moving Byron because, even though he's a good player, we have too many small players. That our busding top 9 is small on the wings is an issue. Although i like all the following players ( including Drouin when he's on), we're small on the wings

Domi Kk Caufield
Drouin Poehling Suzuki
Tatar Danault Gallagher

As fir this year, i like Weal, Byron, etc... i kust think it would be good if Suzuki and Poehling are ready to step in and get 45+ points. We could use the offensive depth, and each's help on the pp. Poehling in front of the net and Suzuki's play making and shot.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Can't figure people out here.

Galchenyuk was not good on faceoffs, nor strong defensively, yet people here wanted him used at center. Many of the same people are asking Domi to be put to the wing, for having the same flaws as Galchenyuk, only far less markedly so!!

Neither player should be playing center......that being said Domi is much better than Galchenyuk.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Hudon's problem is finishing and durability. He's not soft or too slow.

Skating has always been Hudon's most formidable obstacle. There is no way to actually debate this fact. He has admitted it many times himself.

 

[Runner77]

I think that people (fans) need to let go of their traditional ideas about how a team is constructed. The idea of #1,2,3 and 4 lines ordered by scoring is not something that teams actually discuss any more. If teams could spread their talent equally over 4 lines and be competitive the salary cap makes this impossible. It is more about balancing the top 9 and having an effective 4th line that they can roll out regularly without being a liability.

Moving forward I see this team with 3 natural centers in the top 9 (Kotkaniemi, Poehling and Danault) This leaves 6 winger spots in the top 9 (Gallagher, Caufield, Suzuki, Domi, and two of Tatar/Drouin /Ylonen). That has the potential to be a lethal top 9 with 3 strong two way centers and a ton of skill on the wings.

The only way that I see Domi hanging on to his role as a center is if we lose Danault in the expansion draft. Even if we lose Danault there will be a question of whether Suzuki or Domi should fill that void.

I absolutely love Domi's skill and drive but he is a liability defensively at times as he has a wingers mentality of staying high in the d-zone and leading the rush on the counter attack. If Domi is going to remain at center then he will have to receive softer/insulated minutes while Kotkaniemi and Poehling take the more difficult assignments. In a perfect world you don't want to have to protect any of your top 3 centers and as of right now we have exactly the type of centers that should be able to handle anything with Domi moving to the wing.

It is an unsupported conclusion to say that Domi's production increased because he moved to center. It may very well be completely coincidental as there are multiple reasons as to why his production increased. He was a winger as a rookie and had an outstanding season, clearly there were factors outside of his position that contributed to his reduced production.

I am not preaching to you as I know that you understand the way the NHL is changing The first paragraph was simply an axiom from which I could build a case for other readers.

I don't profess to be an expert but I think we've all noticed a metamorphosis of what a typical NHL 4th line has become.

It used to be a line for tough guys, face punchers and the like. When not needed and especially in the closing moments of a tight game, a team would typically roll with 3 lines.

Then when fighting began to erode, it became more of a checking line.

Nowadays, coaches like to roll with 4 lines. They're looking for good skaters who can supply some offence.

So, to your point, if we start seeing more teams doing like Toronto and allocating a large bulk of their cap space to 3 players, then there will be another trickle down effect and it'll manifest itself on the 4th line where teams will be experiencing high turnover rates since they will only be able to afford low salaried players in order to fit under the cap -- waning vets on the wrong side of 30 whose game has minimal upside or green rookies whose earning power is limited. I can definitely see the aspect of limiting your damage since you're no longer going to be able to afford paying for better players on your 4th line.

As for Domi, I don't know that there is any correlation between his production by playing center as a Hab and by playing wing as a Coyote. Had he remained a Coyote and had he been playing with the same linemates and would have been shifted to center, then maybe something might have been credibly extrapolated from that. But, like you, I don't see it. I think Domi is an emotional player, he's motivated by playing in a rabid, original 6 hockey market and thrives on it. The foregoing played a role in my view. How much -- I don't know. The rest is his own talent. Maybe he's evolved as a player, maybe something clicked.

Now, the only point of contention I have is when you mention that he's a liability at times and how he has a winger's mentality of staying high in the D zone. Yes, he's doing that right now. On his first year as a full-time center. Remember, defense can be taught to a player who is skilled, coachable and amenable. Domi strikes me as an intelligent individual who is self-aware, which means he can learn new patterns of behavior, make adjustments and turn them into habits that become part and parcel of his style of play at the position.

I think that to be as objective as possible, we can't only look at what Domi does right now -- we need to also make allowances for what he can become and how he can improve by remaining at the position. We'd need to see him there at least another full season and then re-evaluate as to whether it makes the most sense to leave him at center. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Runner77]

Skating has always been Hudon's most formidable obstacle. There is no way to actually debate this fact. He has admitted it many times himself.

I'm expecting Hudon to be a little more agile now that he's shed 17 lbs. this off season and has worked with a renowned trainer who has established that his current weight is his ideal playing weight.

 

[Habssince89]

Hudon thinks the game so well and with the new NHL he is oh so close to hitting his potential. If this new playing weight results in him being able to keep up in the play, he could be a solid bottom sixer.

 

[Kriss E]

I'm expecting Hudon to be a little more agile now that he's shed 17 lbs. this off season and has worked with a renowned trainer who has established that his current weight is his ideal playing weight.

I never thought agility was the issue with Hudon. The guy cant finish to save his life. He just brings very little. Not a strong guy, not a fast skater, not particularly great defensively, cant score, no heavy shot, not much vision or playmaking ability...He will never be a regular NHLer.

 

[Runner77]

I never thought agility was the issue with Drouin. The guy cant finish to save his life. He just brings very little. Not a strong guy, not a fast skater, not particularly great defensively, cant score, no heavy shot, not much vision or playmaking ability...He will never be a regular NHLer.

You mean Hudon, no doubt. I'm keeping an open mind. I understand he's not the best skater but I just want to see if he can show more. He's really only had one NHL season with almost regular slate of games played -- in 2017-18 when he logged in 72 games. Other than that, he's only had a handful of NHL games in his other 3 seasons.

Looking at his track record as a pro, his best seasons were in the AHL where he almost posted 30 goals twice. Ultimately, he can score. The question is if he is one of those in-between players -- too good for the AHL and not impactful enough as an NHLer. This training camp may decide it once and for all.

 

[Kriss E]

Just saw the scrimmage. For what they're worth here are my observations.

That Suzuki line was great but they did have two goals scored on them. Hudon looked very good. I'm happy. I like this kid. Suzuki outshone Poehling who I thought had a bad game. Nick was probably the best player on the ice for either team. And his defensive game rivals KK. The kid is going to be a stud.

Brook looked like he regained his form. No brain farts. Was poised on defence.

I don't know why people picked KK as one of the top players. He was totally invisible. But it's a scrimmage

I was pleasantly surprised by Cousins. He'll be a decent 4th liner.

Evans had a good game. He might be a dark horse to stay with the team. If not, he'll be the first call up.

I like Lehky but I think he's out of place on that Domi line. If he doesn't work out I'd like to try Weal and Suzuki on Domi's right-wing.

Drouin. I'll keep my mouth shut till the season starts. I want him to meet expectations even though I would have to eat crow.

Those were basically the players I keyed on. I know it was just a scrimmage but Nick impressed the hell out of me. Suzuki and Hudon were the standouts IMHO.

I don't see what you like in Hudon. Guy has been to seem since the first time I saw him, just a notch below what it takes to make it in pretty much every aspect. At most, he could maybe be a 4th liner but he will contribute very little.

Poehling played how I expected honestly. After such a high in his first game, which was obviously an outlier...I doubted he would come out strong. He should be better than what he's shown but I always just expected him to be a 3rd liner.
Suzuki was visible, a good thing, hope he keeps improving as we move forward. That said, would have still liked to see more from him. It's a scrimmage with vets playing at about 50% and almost no contact...Perfect situation for Suzuki to make himself look great.

Most players were invisible to me, KK, Cousins, Thompson, most guys...not much. Veterans for obvious reasons weren't going to be competitive during this scrimmage. Some playing around like Domi did was fine. A guy like Gallagher, given his style, was obviously going to be a no-show today.
Evans to me was visible for the wrong reason, made a couple blunders.

The player who surprised me most was Chariot if I'm honest. He skated much better than I thought and was pinching in more. Let's see how that translate to the NHL.


All in all, good to see guys skating, no real big positive or negative impressions as this is just the first scrimmage.
Hockey is right around the corner, Thank the Lord.

 

[Kriss E]

You mean Hudon, no doubt. I'm keeping an open mind. I understand he's not the best skater but I just want to see if he can show more. He's really only had one NHL season with almost regular slate of games played -- in 2017-18 when he logged in 72 games. Other than that, he's only had a handful of NHL games in his other 3 seasons.

Looking at his track record as a pro, his best seasons were in the AHL where he almost posted 30 goals twice. Ultimately, he can score. The question is if he is one of those in-between players -- too good for the AHL and not impactful enough as an NHLer. This training camp may decide it once and for all.

I think he is a career AHLer type. He really has to show a reason to be kept, I never saw one and still don't.

 

[Runner77]

I think he is a career AHLer type. He really has to show a reason to be kept, I never saw one and still don't.

I think this is it for him as a Hab. Do or die. No biggie if he doesn't make it, it's not as if there aren't other options.

What really surprised me was how they chose to hold on to him last season. So many of us thought he was going to get waived. He spent a lot of time eating hotdogs -- did Julien even value the player after we saw how little he was deployed last season?

 

[Runner77]

Did you guys see Paul Byron's playlist on Spotify?

La liste de lecture heavy metal de Paul Byron • Paul Byron's hard rock playlist, a playlist by canadiensmtl on Spotify

No wonder he's so angry, smashing his stick.

 

[tinyzombies]

Suzuki badly outplayed Poehling felt like and I like that he could be a top 6 righty center.

Domi needs to move back to LW.

Brook did allow a stretch pass to get behind him but looked good otherwise.

KK has to be in the top 6 imo. I don’t see why he HAS to play with Armia at all.

Lehkonen I’d use as a spare.

Weal >> Thompson

Not sure about breaking up Kulak-Petry... that worked well...

Drouin looked hard on the puck. I like the adjustments he’s made.

 

[cashinstinct]

Let’s just agree that Hudon has lots of issues.

Everyone finds something « bad » different in him.