Redo the first 5 picks of the 1990 Draft

Discussion in 'The History of Hockey' started by IggyFan12, Apr 7, 2011.

  1. IggyFan12

    IggyFan12 Registered User

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    Looking back in History its clear Owen Nolan should not have went first overall in 1990. Two of the greatest players to ever play (Jagr and Brodeur) went later in the first round. My question is looking back redo the first 5 picks of the 1990 draft.

    1) Quebec- I would go with Jagr here. Having Sakic and Jagr on a line together is just to tantalizing to pass up.
    2) Vancouver- Martin Brodeur- This would give the Cannucks a franchise goalie and with Brodeur in net they maybe win the 94 Stanley Cup
    3) Detroit Red Wings- Keith Tkachuk- A better version than Keith Primeau who they originally took at #3.
    4) Philadelphia Flyers- Owen Nolan a big body who put up big numbers before injuries slowed him down greatly.
    5) Pittsburgh Penguins- Peter Bondra Playing along side Mario Bondra would probably add to his career 500 goals.
     
  2. jcbio11

    jcbio11 Registered User

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    Tough one.

    1. Jaromir Jagr - no brainer
    2. Martin Brodeur - not a big fan of picking goalies high in the draft, because it always seems like there are plenty good ones to be found later as well, but Brodeur is Brodeur
    3. Peter Bondra - better than Owen Nolan or Keith Primeau, goal scoring machine, hit 500 goals playing pretty much through the whole dead puck era
    4. Sergei Zubov - one of the best offensive defenseman to ever play
    5. Owen Nolan - I guess this is where he goes, I wouldn't have a lot of trouble picking Dough Weight over him though
     
  3. vadim sharifijanov

    vadim sharifijanov ugh

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    jagr
    brodeur
    tkachuk
    zubov
    nolan
     
  4. Beef Invictus

    Beef Invictus Fugu Invicta

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    As a Philly fan I'd want Bondra
     
  5. kmad

    kmad riot survivor

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    Kirk McLean was pretty much the only reason the Canucks made it out of the first round that year. I don't know if Marty could have provided the same heroics in his rookie season. Goaltending was by far Vancouver's strong point and if Leetch didnt have such an insane run, McLean might have won the Conn Smythe, even in a losing effort.
     
  6. Epsilon

    Epsilon #basta

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    1. Jagr
    2. Brodeur
    3. Zubov
    4. Tkachuk
    5. Hatcher

    I'd consider Nolan, Bondra, Weight, Sydor, and Kozlov the next 5.
     
  7. kaiser matias

    kaiser matias Registered User

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    McLean is also a reason I would think the Canucks would be hesitant to select Brodeur, or any goalie, in that spot. If we are going based off what is known in 1990, I really doubt the Canucks want a goalie. Remember that McLean was only 24, and had finished third in Vezina voting in 1989, and was named the Canucks team MVP in 1990.
     
  8. Blades of Glory

    Blades of Glory Troll Captain

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    1. Quebec Nordiques- RW Jaromir Jagr
    In hindsight, this is an obvious pick. Owen Nolan was a very good player and one of the best power forwards of his time, but Jagr was the greatest player of his generation and probably one of the 5 best pure scorers in the history of hockey. But honestly, I understand why Quebec took Nolan and I can't say that they were wrong, at the time. Nolan was far more polished and his offensive skills were unquestionably elite, while Jagr was very raw and did not enter the league with the skills that he left it with. When Jagr came into the league, he was a big winger with nice hands and a backhand. That was it. Nolan had high-end shooting ability, something Jagr did not acquire until mid-way into his career. Plus there was the physical aspect. Still, hindsight is 20-20 and Jagr is the #1 pick.

    2. Vancouver Canucks- LW Keith Tkachuk
    While Martin Brodeur is the obvious choice, the draft is about needs, and the Canucks were not going to take a goalie. Kirk McLean was only 23 and was only one season removed from taking them into the playoffs and performing admirably against the eventual Cup champion Flames in that infamous 7 game series. McLean single-handedly won Game 1 of that series and his Game 7 performance was spectacular, led by one of the most infamous saves of all-time. Had Vancouver won, there would be no question that that save would be considered the greatest in history, being in OT of Game 7 against the Cup favorites. There was no justification for taking a goalie, and the Canucks would not have won a round in 1994 if it were not for McLean. Brodeur would not have taken the Canucks to Game 7 of the Cup Finals in 1994. No one could foresee McLean's career taking a nosedive so quickly after that, likely in part to a messy divorce. Tkachuk would have given them a net-presence and big body to play with Bure and Linden.

    3. Detroit Red Wings- G Martin Brodeur
    I can see why Detroit picked Keith Primeau because they had drafted Sergei Fedorov only a year before and there were obvious questions regarding his ability to get out of Russia. Primeau was a reliable center that could fit behind Yzerman. But Fedorov arrived in 1991, and he turned into a dominant center that actually took the #1 role from Yzerman in Scotty Bowman's first few seasons. The one thing Detroit never had was a franchise goalie. Goaltending was the reason they didn't win the Cup until 1997. Martin Brodeur would have been the difference between winning and losing the first round in 94, the Cup Finals in 95, and possibly the third round in 96. Not to mention there wouldn't have been the goaltending issues between 1999-2001.

    4. Philadelphia Flyers- D Sergei Zubov
    Philly needed both a center and a defenseman. The Flyers were a team in transition. Their only decent center was a past-his-prime Ken Linseman. Mark Howe was aging rapidly. Ricci wasn't a bad pick, but aside from the time he spent on Joe Sakic's wing, he was a career third-line center that was good for 40-50 points and excellent defense. Obviously, the Flyers ended up getting a franchise center and Ricci was a part of that deal. Without Ricci, you do wonder if Quebec even considers the Flyers' deal and if they send Lindros to New York. But, hey, the Rangers got Zubov and the Flyers got Lindros, and only one of them was the leading scorer on a Cup champion. Zubov was an elite defenseman, one of the best of his era and very under-rated in a historical perspective. Playoff monster. Zubov and Desjardins are a great 1-2. But would the historically-North American Flyers have really taken a Soviet player? I doubt it, honestly.

    5. Pittsburgh Penguins- RW Owen Nolan
    With Jagr, Brodeur, and Zubov off the board, Nolan would be the obvious pick. Scotty Bowman had just been brought in, and Scotty loved big, physical, goal-scoring wingers, considering he traded for one in both Pittsburgh and Detroit. The Penguins were set at center with Mario and John Cullen, but they were shallow on the wing beyond Kevin Stevens and Mark Recchi, Mario's linemates the next year when they won the Cup. Nolan was offensively-gifted goalscorer with a great shot, and he was a prototypical power forward. Considering they dealt Recchi for Rick Tocchet in 1991, partially due to wanting a second power forward, joining Stevens, to flank Lemieux so that he would essentially have two high-scoring bodyguards. Peter Bondra might have been a better pure goalscorer than Nolan, but he wasn't physical, he wasn't much of a passer, and he didn't play defense. Bowman had little use for those types of players. It's why he pushed Craig Patrick to trade for Ron Francis, who they felt was far suited to the #2 center for a playoff run over John Cullen, even though the latter was at the top of the NHL in scoring when they dealt him.
     
  9. TheDevilMadeMe

    TheDevilMadeMe Registered User

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    Detroit with brodeur would have been sick. Real dynasty instead of almost dynasty? But then who do they trade for shanahan without primeau? Do they still need him?
     
  10. TheGoldenJet

    TheGoldenJet Registered User

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    Pretty sure Fedorov would have gone in the first 5 picks.

    For the first half of the decade he was better than Jagr. It wasn't until after his holdout that Jagr started being viewed as the better player.
     
  11. IggyFan12

    IggyFan12 Registered User

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    If Brodeur went to the Wings I dont think they would need Shanahan to win multiple cups. Were probably talking about 5-6 Cups for the Wings with Brodeur.
     
  12. kmad

    kmad riot survivor

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    Wasn't Fedorov a 1989er? I know he went in the same draft as Lidstrom.
     
  13. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

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    The only reason the Flyers didn't select Jagr at the time, was that they had no idea if or when they'd be able to get him out of Czechoslovakia.

    If they knew they could get him over as an 18 year old like the Pens did, they certainly would have selected him over Ricci.
     
  14. vadim sharifijanov

    vadim sharifijanov ugh

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    the funny thing was, mike ricci was supposed to be a sure thing. the safest pick in the draft, even if he didn't have the upside of nolan, nedved, primeau, or jagr.

    when the flyers traded him in the lindros deal, they had already picked up basically the same player in rod brind'amour. brind'amour's career, two-way PPG second line center in his prime, great leadership, playoff warrior, intangibles like you wouldn't believe, played forever, that was supposed to be ricci's career.


    it was a funny draft overall. the top five picks were all supposed to be franchise players, and they were all all-stars of one kind of another, however briefly. but if you think back, the one guy who was a true franchise-altering superstar, jagr, was also the only one who never put his team over the top-- discounting his first two years, where i think the pens could have won without him.

    nolan was traded for ozolinsh. avs immediately win a cup. the addition of patrick roy was obviously also a factor there, but gaining the puck moving and rushing ability of ozolinsh was indispensable to those avs, and, as pierre lacroix loves to say, well worth overpaying for with nolan.

    nedved was traded, in a roundabout way, for jeff brown, bret hedican, and nathan lafayette. canucks immediately go to the finals.

    primeau was traded, along with paul coffey, for brendan shanahan. wings immediately win two straight cups.

    ricci was at the time considered the best player going to quebec in the lindros deal (remember, this was before forsberg's big coming out party at the '93 WJC and his crowning as the best player outside of the NHL at the '94 olympics). the flyers soon become a powerhouse and eventually go to the finals on lindros' back.
     
  15. MadArcand

    MadArcand Whaletarded

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    Except that we're talking about 1990 draft, and communism ended in 1989 in Czechoslovakia, so... nope.
     
  16. Stephen

    Stephen Registered User

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    I don't know about that. In New Jersey he was supported from the get-go as a rookie with a defensive coach and one of the strongest blueline groups in the modern era. In Detroit, who knows how he would have responded in that atmosphere of playoff failure from 1994-1996.
     
  17. Stephen

    Stephen Registered User

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    I don't think so, Mike Ricci was very highly rated when he was a junior, I think at some point he was pegged as a franchise player/generational talent before the 1990 draft.
     
  18. MiamiScreamingEagles

    MiamiScreamingEagles A Fistful of Dollars

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    Ricci was ranked the #1 player by the CSB. At one point, Russ Farwell contacted Pat Quinn and tried to get a swap of the #2 and #4 picks with the Flyers sending Scott Mellanby and Terry Carkner to Vancouver. Quinn rejected that because he wanted Nedved. The thought at the time was that the Farwell wanted Nedved at #2.
     
  19. Epsilon

    Epsilon #basta

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    I don't have a source for it but I remember a book I had a long time ago "NHL Young Guns" or something like that) with a story about how the Canucks top two players on their draft board (besides Nolan who was expected to go #1) were Nedved and Jagr.
     
  20. vadim sharifijanov

    vadim sharifijanov ugh

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    as a slovakian, you should know this. the berlin wall fell in '89, and many of the soviet countries, including the former czechoslovakia engaged in successful democracy movements. however, the de-sovetizing of these countries was a long process. the czech republic and slovakia didn't become independent republics until several years later. furthermore, just because the country had become a democracy, it doesn't mean that western, liberal free trade automatically becomes the economic model. it's not as if the world is naturally free market capitalist and the communists were keeping that down, so that once the communist government was ousted the country magically began to conduct itself as a liberal democracy right away. economic and political institutions needed to be rebuilt. new laws needed to be written.

    in june of 1990, it was not yet known what rights he would have as a czechoslovakian citizen to immigrate to and work in north america, particularly as he had not yet fulfilled his military obligations to the country. furthermore, it was not yet known what rights jagr had as a player who was under contract to the kladno organization and the czech elite league. luckily for the penguins, this was all able to be sorted out very quickly that summer. but it took negotiations (and cash changing hands) with kladno, the czech league, the ministry of sport, the army, and the czechoslakian government. and if you think dealing with soviet bureaucracy is difficult, try dealing with the bureaucracy of a country that just had a revolution.
     
  21. TheDevilMadeMe

    TheDevilMadeMe Registered User

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    Brodeur would have had Scottie Bowman in Detroit.
     
  22. jkrdevil

    jkrdevil UnRegistered User

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    NJ 1994-1996:
    1994: Lost in the conference finals Game 7. While not a playoff failure still a painful loss to rebound from. Who knows what Detroit could have done with Marty in '94.
    1995: Devils beat the Red Wings in the Final. Now you put Brodeur on the other side and I think you can make the argument that Detroit wins instead. Devils probably aren't even there.
    1996: Missed the playoffs. He bounced back pretty well after that, certainty is worse than Detroit fate of losing in the conference final.

    I think in Detroit, Brodeur would have had a similar career. As far as defensive systems both the Devils and Red Wings were strong in their team defense.
     
  23. Hardyvan123

    Hardyvan123 [email protected]

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    This sheds some light and context on the draft.

    Jagr was by far the best talent but he was still in Europe. Nolan went 1st because eh was seen as the next Cam Neely and Nedved had an exceptional year in the WHL after defecting and was seen as a driven player.

    Ricci was seen as a complete player and a great playoff/captain material guy and Primeau was big and could flat out skate.

    Sure with hindsight everyone would take Jagr now but don't forget Pitt also brought in Jiri Hrdina for the 2nd half of Jagr's rookie year.

    The Pens also loaded up on some cagey veterans for their 1st of 2 Cups and Jagr was a secondary player and allowed to develop. Who knows how he would have ended up on any of the other 4 teams.

    To me Pitt was the best fit and development situation for him.

    the 4 guys drafted ahead of him all showed, at least in part, why they were pretty decent draft picks, unlike the NYI who picked a guy who had 2 NHL games.
     
  24. quoipourquoi

    quoipourquoi Goaltender

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    First of all, the Detroit Red Wings absolutely needed Brendan Shanahan in two of their three pre-lockout Cup runs, so I have to straight-up disagree there. His presence is one of the key reasons that they were able to stand up to the Colorado Avalanche in 1997, so much so to the extent that he literally fought Patrick Roy. In 2002, he was their glue in the regular season, and up until the point in which they coasted through April, his name was brought up with Francis' and Iginla's as one of the possible forward contenders for the Hart Trophy in a goalie heavy year.

    Brodeur would allow the Detroit Red Wings to win maybe one extra Stanley Cup pre-lockout: 1995, and that's because his play was one of the major reasons that the Devils won it in the first place. Detroit was consistently knocked out of the playoffs not because they didn't have a strong goaltender, but because they ran into the hottest goalie of the month.

    1996 (Pre-Shanahan)
    Roy: .921
    Osgood: .898
    Brodeur: N/A

    1999
    Roy: .920
    Osgood: .919
    Brodeur: .856

    2000
    Roy: .928
    Brodeur: .927
    Osgood: .924

    2001
    Potvin: .909
    Osgood: .905
    Brodeur: .897

    2003
    Giguere: .945
    Brodeur: .934
    Joseph: .917

    2004
    Joseph: .939
    Kiprusoff: .928
    Legace: .905
    Brodeur: .902


    Taking away Shanahan via Primeau in order for Brodeur to come in doesn't provide a definitive goaltending edge against any of the teams that knocked out the Red Wings (and perhaps only twice or so over Osgood, Legace, and Joseph), and because of Shanahan's absence, they would have had even fewer offensive weapons at their disposal.

    It might have been a wash or worse.
     
  25. MadArcand

    MadArcand Whaletarded

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    You do realize that the split had nothing to do with the revolution or desovietization, do you?

    You also do realize that Czechoslovakia was never a "soviet country", right?

    The point is, no one would've stopped him if he went. He was completely free to go to the US.

    He hadn't completed his military service yet? Did teams not draft Finns because they haven't completed their military service (which is compulsory in Finland) at the time of the draft yet? There was nothing different in drafting Jagr re: military than drafting a Finn. Same deal with Sweden until last year when they abolished mandatory military service. Didn't stop Quebec from drafting Sundin just a year earlier, did it?

    The contract point is also completely irrelevant, nearly all drafted Europeans are under a contract to a local team.
     

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