Redline USA today

Discussion in 'NHL Draft - Prospects' started by GMofOilers, Apr 23, 2011.

  1. GMofOilers

    GMofOilers Registered User

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    Last edited: Apr 23, 2011
  2. boredmale

    boredmale Registered User Sponsor

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    I think Couturier should at least be a couple spots higher(although he did say the top 8 is a matter of opinion(more so the 4-8)) and he seemed to put way to much stock into the under 18s for the last 2 guys
     
  3. Darrelle Lundqvist

    Darrelle Lundqvist Swagelin

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    Couturier at 8 ??
     
  4. Parise09*

    Parise09* Guest

    LOL that is one horrible list.
     
  5. TheNorth

    TheNorth Better Call Saul

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    Sudbury player(Josh Leivo) getting recognized, Nice to see
     
  6. Nullus Reverentia

    Nullus Reverentia Hic Sunt Dracones

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    Miller and Grimaldi in the top 10?

    Would have liked to see some reasoning but I know they don't put that up on these online ones.

    One little thing that I laughed at was when it said goaltending cost Canada gold, no it didn't, Canadian skaters not showing up for the third cost Canada gold.
     
  7. toquerasta

    toquerasta Registered User

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    Glad to see there's a consensus top eight with the talent dropping off after that.

    Bruins pick is at nine.
     
  8. TRask

    TRask Registered User

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    Lol Leaf fans really need to get over it and worry about your own pick...Even after the big 8, we're more then happy with one of Zibanejad, Armia, Bealieau or Siemens :nod:
     
  9. rt

    rt Registered User Sponsor

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    Can someone please explain this whole Rocco Grimaldi thing to me? Google his name and you will find a 5'6", 160lb forward putting up a point per game in the ushl. Generally that doesn't get you drafted in the first seven rounds, let alone the first ten picks. Obviously I'm missing a give element of what makes this player such a special one. Please, please let me in on it. I'm tiring of being so ignorant on this.

    Thanks.
     
  10. Schennsation

    Schennsation Show goes on

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    Good to see Levio getting some attention after a solid playoff run
     
  11. Future

    Future Registered User

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    A short speedy skater that likes to shoot the puck every time it touches his stick. I hate his game really...
     
  12. boredmale

    boredmale Registered User Sponsor

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    I think Rocco is more a guy who will be picked in the 20-30 range, but he is playing for the US development team not USHL(although I guess they do play some games there). I guess the feeling is he is so highly skilled that he will be good enough to beat the size issue(see Gionta or more recently Ennis)

    Sounds like Jason Blake. lol
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2011
  13. Dread Clawz

    Dread Clawz LAWSonic Boom

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    How does scoring a PPG in the USHL as a 17-18 year old not get you drafted? If he was a few inches taller, he'd be a top 10 pick without question.
     
  14. Sanderson

    Sanderson Registered User

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    Seems a bit weird to have Rieder drop now. His second half was pretty bad, yet he never made it onto the "falling" list, but now, where two players are rising based on their play in the U18, he is falling?

    He scored 3 goals in three games at the U18, playing injured no less. In the games he didn't play, Germany's offense disappeared completely, but when he played, they kept up with anyone.

    He should have been on the falling list months ago, but now, after this tournament, doesn't really make much sense.
     
  15. William H Bonney

    William H Bonney Registered User

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    First thing to remember is that putting up a point per game with the NTDP team is different than putting up a point per game in the USHL with another team. The NTDP team is the youngest in the league. Age, inexperience, physical and mental immaturity are huge factors working against them on most nights. The majority of the NTDP team(s) didn't even dominate the NAHL for those same reasons. The sledding is even tougher for them obviously in a much superior league. Second thing to remember is that Grimaldi's NTDP team isn't one of the better offensive teams the NTDP has had. Offensively, they're basically a one line team with Rocco, J.T. Miller, and Reid Boucher and Rocco is the straw that stirs that drink.

    For more perspective, just look at where Rocco is in NTDP History for scoring. He's currently 8th in career goals, 2nd in career assists, and 5th in career points. The only players ahead of him in career points are 1) Phil Kessel (180); 2) Patrick Kane (172); 3) Andy Hilbert (153); 4) Jeremy Morin (139); and then 5) Rocco Grimaldi (135).

    Even with that, you have to remember that during Kessel, Kane, and Morin's NTDP runs they played in the NAHL both seasons and not the USHL like Rocco. Hilbert's first season was also in the NAHL as well but his second season was in the USHL (NTDP last played full seasons in the USHL during the 98-99 and 99-00 seasons. They just rejoined the USHL last season). When Hilbert played with the NTDP they also used to play a lot more games and the USHL was a much weaker league back then. Now not only were all 4 of those players playing in weaker leagues, but in the case of Kessel, Kane, and Morin you also need to look at who they played with. Kessel played with the following: Peter Mueller (also Top 10 in NTDP goals, assists, and scoring), Jack Johnson (#3 in all-time NTDP d-man scoring), Erik Johnson (#4 in all-time NTDP d-man scoring) Nathan Gerbe, Jack Skille, Ryan Stoa, etc. Kane played with following: Blake Geoffrion, Bill Sweatt, Erik Johnson, Jamie McBain, Jim O'Brien, and Rhett Rakhshani. Morin played with the following: Drew Shore, Jerry D'Amigo, Ryan Bourque, Jordan Schroeder, Kyle Palmieri, Cam Fowler (#10 all-time NTDP d-man scoring), David Warsofsky, Danny Kristo, etc. Andy Hilbert also played with the #10 all-time NTDP player in career points in Connor Dunlop.

    With that for some perspective, you also just have to see Rocco play to see what the hype is about. If he were 5'10, he'd be in the running for the #1 pick in the draft. He's an elite skater. Very fast. Very shifty. He has a great shot. He has very, very slick hands. Very good vision. He's very good on face-offs. He plays both ends of the ice. And most importantly, given his size, is that he's a pit bull. He's small but he's compact and tenacious. He doesn't back down at all. He's not afraid to throw his "weight" around, go in the corners, in front of the net, traffic areas, etc. He not only goes to those areas but he excels in them and isn't pushed around and he'll challenge anyone in the process. He's also probably the most driven player I've ever followed. His only drawback is his size.

    That said, he's not going Top 10 because he is that small. Even in the new NHL it's a risk and one I don't think teams will be willing to make that high. But he should, and I think he will, go in the 1st Round. This draft doesn't have a lot of "guarantees" and a lot of the players have some glaring warts. A guy like Rocco is worth the pick in the 1st round.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2011
  16. SufferingCatFan

    SufferingCatFan Registered User

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    Big fan of Redline. It offers an independent evaluation by folks that actually scout the prospects live. But, draft order is tricky because player evaluation has a lot of subjectivity, which differs from team to team, as does the needs of each team and risk tolerance.

    That said, it is helpful to get the perspective that this draft basically has 8 high-end prospects, maybe 12 other 1st round types and then the next 30 could anywhere between 20-50 . At least, that is what I have gotten out of reading the Redline columns. We will obviously learn more when the draft guide comes out in June.
     
  17. R S

    R S @avs_tweets

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    Funny to see what they have to say about Ewanyk. To me it SCREAMS that they haven't watched enough WHL hockey this year.
     
  18. Shaun

    Shaun Registered User

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    :facepalm:


    I'll glady take Mika Z at 9. Who wouldn't want a big Iranian Finnish Power Forward?
     
  19. CerebralGenesis

    CerebralGenesis Registered User

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  20. birddog*

    birddog* Guest

    The one thing that is not only "hard" to argue but impossible to argue is that no pre-draft ranking has ever turned out perfectly. In every single draft in history there are player late in the first round that turn out better than many top 8 picks. It happens every single year.

    so to say this year has a clear top 8 and there is a big drop-off is only true of pre-draft rankings. In a few years people will be talking about how 2011 version guys like Skinner should have been higher.

    In 2008 John Carlson was drafted 27th - he'd certainly be a top 10 -maybe even top 5 pick if the draft was done over.

    In 2007 no way Zach Hamil gets drafted ahead of Logan Couture if its done over.

    In 2006 Eric Johnson does not go 1st overall ahead of Toews if its done again. Claude Giroux doesn't get picked 22nd overall.

    In 2005 Anze Kopitar 7 picks below Benoit Pouliot is laughable and hard to understand how a scout could have made that error.

    In 2004 Mike Green at 29th.

    In 2003 Zherdev at 4th - Mike Richards at 24th - Correy Perry 28th (of note Perry was past over completely in his first draft year - and is the current Rocket Richard Trophy Winner).

    I could go on, there are hundreds of examples, examples that extend well beyond the first round, but you get the picture. These rankings are not 100% accurate predictions of what will happen in the future - in fact they are probably only like 50% accurate. The fact that no two scouting services or teams have the exact same lists tells you all you need to know.

    I'm wondering which one of the top 8 will be a flop and which one of the picks 20-50 we'll be talking about that should have gone top 8.
     
  21. Marc the Habs Fan

    Marc the Habs Fan Moderator

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    Perry wasn't passed over in his draft year.

    I think you are thinking of David Perron.
     
  22. pokerface1

    pokerface1 Registered User

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    Is your assessment of Ewanyk different than Redline's? Or did you just mean that they would have known about his positive qualities if they had been watching more all season?
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2011
  23. R S

    R S @avs_tweets

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    It's not different, but that's the thing. They start it off with "Wow!" and then proceeded to talk him up like it's the first time they have seen him this entire year.

    If they have actually watched him during the season they would know that he is always the hardest working kid on the ice and has solid offensive skills. They shouldn't be so shocked by him.
     
  24. pokerface1

    pokerface1 Registered User

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    quick on the reply, I had just edited my previous comment. Where do you think Ewanyk deserves to go in the draft(based on talent as opposed to actual mock projection)?
     
  25. R S

    R S @avs_tweets

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    I think he's a 3rd round player, but could see him go in the 2nd after his good showing (or just more exposure) at the U-18's.
     

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