Helene St. James Red Wings will re-call 1-2 Forwards from GR. Who do you think it will be and why?

[TatarTangle]

Yeah your right, drafting a winger to develop is a more sound strategy than drafting top pairing defense men to develop.

And as far as Holland/his prospect I have a real right to question his drafting I think so whatever, follow whatever you read and your ranks. Call me dumb and try to act like i'm pigeon holing the defense men to being year one players when I'm, not. I'm saying all things equal, you should draft defense men and develop them vs wingers, Unless the winger is so good he'll come in and make impact early and you know you have a 30 plus goal scorer annually. It's harder to get really good top pairing defense vs good wingers.

I'm just watching four other prospects do well, develop, and watching ours struggle and only wings fans are defending him calling the jump "BIG" and stuff when I get that, but why did we draft a winger and not a D to develop? Which is more important?

What's more important? Patience. You are making a lot of assumptions on players you don't know how will pan out based on an extremely small sample size. Zadina was univerally regarded as a steal across the hockey world, but I suppose every single scout and analyst are mistaken already.

 

[Snuggs]

What's more important? Patience. You are making a lot of assumptions on players you don't know how will pan out based on an extremely small sample size. Zadina was univerally regarded as a steal across the hockey world, but I suppose every single scout and analyst are mistaken already.

Good point. Fair. It's early.


I really hope this is a funny looking argument a month from now even. I've only seen Zadina play twice this year in GR and haven't seen the other players play outside of Bouchard who doesn't play much and is clearly sheltered.

 

[Ezekial]

So what? So was Cholowski and Rasmussen last year? WHL I believe? Larkin came right from the NCAA.

Thank you for bringing up Cholowski. Cholowski is actually a terrible example for your cause. Chychrun was playing NHL minutes on a bad Arizona team in his D+1 while Cholowski was having a "rough" go in his freshman year in college hockey. Give Zadina a minute.

To hit one of your other points, why is the Q better for his development right now than the AHL? Point production?

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Good point. Fair. It's early.


I really hope this is a funny looking argument a month from now even. I've only seen Zadina play twice this year in GR and haven't seen the other players play outside of Bouchard who doesn't play much and is clearly sheltered.

I mean, that's the biggest point on Zadina. He's 19. Everyone on all sides could be well served by stepping on the brake in judging him. He did a lot of good things in the preseason but had a bunch to work on too. I'd rather he work it out now and hit the ground running in his D+1 year than bounce him up and down and around.

Also, I think the likelihood that Zadina becomes an elite forward is higher than Bouchard or Dobson becoming top pairing D-men. Bouchard had a bunch of tape in lower leagues in which his hockey IQ scared me from wanting him. Dobson seemed like he'd be good, but not ever be great. That was the knock on him. And frankly, the Wings need great right now. Hughes and Boqvist are toss-ups as they're more the mold of what a defenseman is becoming now, but they're both small and Boqvist has a concussion history.

I think this draft is the wrong one to complain about not taking a D. Also, I have a feeling the choice was between Quinn Hughes and Filip Zadina. Hughes seemed like he knew he was going to Detroit, until Arizona took Barrett Hayton.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I mean, that's the biggest point on Zadina. He's 19. Everyone on all sides could be well served by stepping on the brake in judging him. He did a lot of good things in the preseason but had a bunch to work on too. I'd rather he work it out now and hit the ground running in his D+1 year than bounce him up and down and around.

Also, I think the likelihood that Zadina becomes an elite forward is higher than Bouchard or Dobson becoming top pairing D-men. Bouchard had a bunch of tape in lower leagues in which his hockey IQ scared me from wanting him. Dobson seemed like he'd be good, but not ever be great. That was the knock on him. And frankly, the Wings need great right now. Hughes and Boqvist are toss-ups as they're more the mold of what a defenseman is becoming now, but they're both small and Boqvist has a concussion history.

I think this draft is the wrong one to complain about not taking a D. Also, I have a feeling the choice was between Quinn Hughes and Filip Zadina. Hughes seemed like he knew he was going to Detroit, until Arizona took Barrett Hayton.

As someone that had Dobson higher on my board, I wholeheartedly disagree with this take. I had Hughes at #3 so that was really tough for me to watch him be there and us not take him. But I believe in Zadina's talent, I just not sure it is quite as elite or consistently repeatable as some others believe, I hope that it is and he has tools that can work towards that for sure but I don't think this is a slam dunk either.

Zadina invites pressure to do some of what he does. He needs to adjust to that at the pro level. But for those saying universal scouting, I know a couple in the business and this was a concern on Zadina. He still should be a good scorer and he will be a guy that feasts on the PP something we have lacked lately. But currently some of his cute stuff has him looking at the rafters, they are stronger at this level and recognize what you're doing quicker.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

So the great idea is to send on an important future asset who clearly isn't ready by any measure to sell some seats. Kthen.

Clearly isn't ready? Oh ready like Hicketts? That ready? Or you mean Megan ready? Kthen

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

1. I think you vastly over estimate the number of red wings fans that have the slightest clue who Filip Zadina is, let alone would buy a ticket for him.

2. If this WERE a model for selling tickets, we already have two recent first rounders 10 games into their careers with the Red Wings. They are already doing what you want them to do.

I remember the talk was Zadina was going to make the wings out the gate. Playing him one game doesn't hurt anything. MEGAN isn't in our future plans it's a waste of a spot

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

As someone that had Dobson higher on my board, I wholeheartedly disagree with this take. I had Hughes at #3 so that was really tough for me to watch him be there and us not take him. But I believe in Zadina's talent, I just not sure it is quite as elite or consistently repeatable as some others believe, I hope that it is and he has tools that can work towards that for sure but I don't think this is a slam dunk either.

Zadina invites pressure to do some of what he does. He needs to adjust to that at the pro level. But for those saying universal scouting, I know a couple in the business and this was a concern on Zadina. He still should be a good scorer and he will be a guy that feasts on the PP something we have lacked lately. But currently some of his cute stuff has him looking at the rafters, they are stronger at this level and recognize what you're doing quicker.

Yeah, it's one of the things that you have to hope he grows out of. It's like AA. If AA could consistently give 100% like Larkin does, he'd be fabulous. If Mantha could do the same, he'd be a g'd terror.
But a junior player realizing that the cute stuff he could get away with in juniors doesn't work anymore in the A or above is part of the development process. He seems the type to learn and grow. Not a demon like Larkin in that, but driven to prove himself and continue to better himself.

Guys like Hughes and Boqvist kind of scare me. The rover type offensive D like that need to be REALLY good offensively at the NHL to make them worth it. Do they project to be young Mike Green good on offense? Tyson Barrie? That's the level play you need if you're a rover who isn't fantastic defensively.

I wanted Quinn Hughes before the draft. And I wholeheartedly believe that if Arizona didn't go for Barret Hayton and instead took Zadina like was thought, we would have taken him.

 

[theYman]

I was kinda surprised we didn't go with Zadina to replace Vanek at least. Instead took Megan.

 

[Oddbob]

Megan seemed like what he is, a quality AHL player. Seems a touch slow, and his shot wasn't great either.

 

[Snuggs]

Thank you for bringing up Cholowski. Cholowski is actually a terrible example for your cause. Chychrun was playing NHL minutes on a bad Arizona team in his D+1 while Cholowski was having a "rough" go in his freshman year in college hockey. Give Zadina a minute.

To hit one of your other points, why is the Q better for his development right now than the AHL? Point production?

Dude no its not. Your acting like I don't want to develop defensem. Sending Cholowski down last year would be the same reason a team sends Hughes/Boqvist down to mature physically. I dont want to give Zadina a mintue really unless you can garauntee me he'll be better than the four D men I mentioned early. No guarantees they're better but all things equal I try and develop defense men over wingers. Just ME personally I guess. He's not powting but clearly not comfortable.

I said the Q MIGHT be better though for him cause physically maybe even mentally he's just not ready it seems to match up to 25-30 year old men. Point production yes, but also confidence would remain sky high.

I imagine you've seen him play recently and outside of one game,(which I actually didn't see in GR) he's been pretty lack-luster and looks idk, annoyed or frustrated.

 

[Ezekial]

So you just really wanted a D man, I get it.

I don't think Zadina should get an NHL minute yet, either, but how many do? 3 people on this forum? That doesn't mean he should be in the Q or that we should be worried because he hasn't been a ppg elite AHL winger. I've watched GR, he hasn't been very good. Zadina isn't undersized or underskilled, he needs to learn how to play the professional game and create his own space.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Dude no its not. Your acting like I don't want to develop defensem. Sending Cholowski down last year would be the same reason a team sends Hughes/Boqvist down to mature physically. I dont want to give Zadina a mintue really unless you can garauntee me he'll be better than the four D men I mentioned early. No guarantees they're better but all things equal I try and develop defense men over wingers. Just ME personally I guess. He's not powting but clearly not comfortable.

I said the Q MIGHT be better though for him cause physically maybe even mentally he's just not ready it seems to match up to 25-30 year old men. Point production yes, but also confidence would remain sky high.

I imagine you've seen him play recently and outside of one game,(which I actually didn't see in GR) he's been pretty lack-luster and looks idk, annoyed or frustrated.

See that's the thing though. Things AREN'T equal. Zadina had a better profile than any of those 4 defensemen in the Wings estimation. Yes, I'd rather have taken a defenseman too. But going into the draft, all four of those defensemen (aside from maybe Dobson) had a clear knock against them. And Dobson was more of a jack of all trades, master of none kind of prospect from what I always read. Like he'll do things right, but he wasn't a gamebreaker. Zadina if he hits his ceiling IS a gamebreaker.

And he's frustrated because he wants to play at the NHL level. He's frustrated because he's not able to do in the A what he was able to do in the Q. Lastly, he won't become more ready to play against grown men if he stays in juniors. He won't be playing any there. I want him, for lack of a better way of saying it, taking his lumps and learning how to find space at 19 so he's **** of the walk at 20.

 

[TCNorthstars]

The guys we passed on are in junior/college except for Bouchard.

Bouchard just got sent down.

 

[RedWingzz]

The guys we passed on are in junior/college except for Bouchard.

Right, which is exactly where Zadina should be right now as well.

 

[RedWingzz]

See that's the thing though. Things AREN'T equal. Zadina had a better profile than any of those 4 defensemen in the Wings estimation. Yes, I'd rather have taken a defenseman too. But going into the draft, all four of those defensemen (aside from maybe Dobson) had a clear knock against them. And Dobson was more of a jack of all trades, master of none kind of prospect from what I always read. Like he'll do things right, but he wasn't a gamebreaker. Zadina if he hits his ceiling IS a gamebreaker.

And he's frustrated because he wants to play at the NHL level. He's frustrated because he's not able to do in the A what he was able to do in the Q. Lastly, he won't become more ready to play against grown men if he stays in juniors. He won't be playing any there. I want him, for lack of a better way of saying it, taking his lumps and learning how to find space at 19 so he's **** of the walk at 20.

Uhhh..if he's frustrated because he's not playing in the NHL, the best thing he could do is light it up in the A, and prove the Wings wrong. At the moment, all he has done is prove the Wings right for sending him down. 4 points in 9 games and he has a plus minus that could win most golf tournaments.

 

[Gniwder]

Uhhh..if he's frustrated because he's not playing in the NHL, the best thing he could do is light it up in the A, and prove the Wings wrong. At the moment, all he has done is prove the Wings right for sending him down. 4 points in 9 games and he has a plus minus that could win most golf tournaments.

Yup. I'm also frustrated that I'm not in the NHL. That doesn't mean I should be playing for the Wings, unless they really want the highest lottery chance.

 

[HIFE]

Megan seemed like what he is, a quality AHL player. Seems a touch slow, and his shot wasn't great either.

I was impressed with Megan and interested to learn about his history from the broadcast. He led the AHL in points a few years back and at college played with a good number of now NHL players. This game he had a breakaway and some action around the net; ultimately was part of the win. Made me think the level of skill between the minors and major can be blurry, and how hard is it to make that final push to stick in the NHL.

In the big picture Megan is an elite hockey player. Being a "scrub" making 650k in the AHL isn't as terrible a fate as people suggest.

 

[Oddbob]

I was impressed with Megan and interested to learn about his history from the broadcast. He led the AHL in points a few years back and at college played with a good number of now NHL players. This game he had a breakaway and some action around the net; ultimately was part of the win. Made me think the level of skill between the minors and major can be blurry, and how hard is it to make that final push to stick in the NHL.

In the big picture Megan is an elite hockey player. Being a "scrub" making 650k in the AHL isn't as terrible a fate as people suggest.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to be "only" an AHL player, I was just saying he doesn't look like an NHL level player to me.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

I mean, that's the biggest point on Zadina. He's 19. Everyone on all sides could be well served by stepping on the brake in judging him. He did a lot of good things in the preseason but had a bunch to work on too. I'd rather he work it out now and hit the ground running in his D+1 year than bounce him up and down and around.

Also, I think the likelihood that Zadina becomes an elite forward is higher than Bouchard or Dobson becoming top pairing D-men. Bouchard had a bunch of tape in lower leagues in which his hockey IQ scared me from wanting him. Dobson seemed like he'd be good, but not ever be great. That was the knock on him. And frankly, the Wings need great right now. Hughes and Boqvist are toss-ups as they're more the mold of what a defenseman is becoming now, but they're both small and Boqvist has a concussion history.

I think this draft is the wrong one to complain about not taking a D. Also, I have a feeling the choice was between Quinn Hughes and Filip Zadina. Hughes seemed like he knew he was going to Detroit, until Arizona took Barrett Hayton.

Zadina is 18 until the end of the month

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Leave him in grand rapids to develop

If by March he is dominating then bring him up after the trade deadline

But their is no rush and no point to do anything else

If he wants to be in the NHL then he best get to work

 

[Ezekial]

In the big picture Megan is an elite hockey player. Being a "scrub" making 650k in the AHL isn't as terrible a fate as people suggest.

I agree with you, but his salary is actually $275k when he's in the ahl, but that is quite a salary nonetheless.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I agree with you, but his salary is actually $275k when he's in the ahl, but that is quite a salary nonetheless.

People under look this element a lot. When I used to hang out with some Milwaukee Admirals back in the day the celebration of a callup in the AHL is something I don't think your average fan would anticipate. They go out and buy all their teammates drinks for a night before flying out to the NHL club, why because they are going to make NHL money that week. But it was a big night, outside of playoff series wins, it was about as hard as most of the guys would go after it while going out in season. If you find a way to extend your stay for two or three weeks you might make your entire AHL salary during that stay in the case of some younger guys. That isn't a small thing.

 

[Ezekial]

People under look this element a lot. When I used to hang out with some Milwaukee Admirals back in the day the celebration of a callup in the AHL is something I don't think your average fan would anticipate. They go out and buy all their teammates drinks for a night before flying out to the NHL club, why because they are going to make NHL money that week. But it was a big night, outside of playoff series wins, it was about as hard as most of the guys would get after it while going out in season. If you find a way to extend your stay for two or three weeks you might make your entire AHL salary during that stay in the case of some younger guys. That isn't a small thing.

Exactly, those ELC kids making a 70k salary getting a nice boost even for a few games is HUGE.

 

[Filppula]

I was impressed with Megan and interested to learn about his history from the broadcast. He led the AHL in points a few years back and at college played with a good number of now NHL players. This game he had a breakaway and some action around the net; ultimately was part of the win. Made me think the level of skill between the minors and major can be blurry, and how hard is it to make that final push to stick in the NHL.

In the big picture Megan is an elite hockey player. Being a "scrub" making 650k in the AHL isn't as terrible a fate as people suggest.

I actually thought Megan looked really good, much better than I expected. He snd Frk seemed to have some nice chemistry.

 

[HIFE]

Don't get me wrong, I would love to be "only" an AHL player, I was just saying he doesn't look like an NHL level player to me.

Ah I noticed tonight his skating in open space was chunky as hell. Not NHL quality. Frk is a much more fluid skater.