News Article: Red Wings Want 1st Round Pick for Howard

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
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This draft is weird because I love the top 15-18 players or so, but there is a pretty steep drop-off after that. So unless someone unexpected drops, I don’t know a late 1st will go as far as one would last year.

Certainly won’t complain if we add one, just thought that was a little odd. This draft seems to be a little lacking in depth for me.
 

Lil Sebastian Cossa

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Jul 6, 2012
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Yeah, sounds like Holland is placing his want high, to let other teams know he is not considered a cap dump or low value on our team. Doubt Holland believes he would get anything higher than say 26th or so overall, as no team is giving more than that up unless they were guaranteed to go deep in the playoffs. To me, do the best you can to trade Howard for as high as you can get of a return, and honestly I would trade Nyquist already. Gus is red hot right now, more than likely he is going to slow down by the deadline, that I would think his value is much higher right now. If he gets into any sustained slump his value is going to plummet. Right now, they can say, look we a have a nearly point a game rental, and I honestly don't see his value increasing.

Teams have to want to trade for him. If they know that he's probably going to slow down and therefore maybe be cheaper... why on Earth would they trade you for him now? If you're trading for a rental Nyquist, you're probably high up in contention right now. You can't sell a player without buyers. And say... St. Louis continues their skid and make EVERYONE available like Friedman says. Who are you lining up for? Nyquist or Vladimir Tarasenko?
 

WingsMJN2965

Registered User
Oct 13, 2017
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A bit different, I should have been clearer as many trades involved a 1st coming back (like TML traded down, Blues got the Caps 1st round back, the BOS/OTT/PITT trade etc). I didn't say that these trades don't happen, only that teams are more reluctant to trades 1sts than in past times. They place more value on 1sts than 5-10 years ago IMO.

I didn't include the ones where teams swapped firsts, hence "Pick for player".
 

Winger98

Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
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That's why there were 7 pick for player trades involving 1st's in last year's draft. :thumbu:

How many involved a goalie being the centerpiece going the other way? I think that's the big hangup. To get a first, there is going to have to be some sort of catastrophic injury to the goalie on a team that is one of the top five or six teams. I can't imagine anyone is going to give up a 1st for a guy they are looking at as a backup.

Outside of something crazy happening, like Rinne blowing his knee out in February, we'd probably get best value from dealing Howard now if a team like Carolina thinks a good goalie will vault them into contention (and it might, look at what they did with McElhinney). Howard for Mrazek & 1st :naughty:
 

SirloinUB

Registered User
Aug 20, 2010
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People always speak of trade values as if they are static and uniform. Different circumstances will impact the market and value of individual players. While its fine to use historical trades to guide your value I don't think you should let them box you in during present negotiations.

Of course, this is easier said than done, I'm sure, but I fully support the "1st or gtfo" approach with Howard. Our crease will be a god damn circus without him. A late 3rd or even a late 2nd just doesn't seem worth it imo. Those picks are such a long shot and I do believe we have a pretty good thing going with our competitive youth movement.

I would also be happy with a good prospect but that is probably even more difficult to get.
 
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Winger98

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Teams have to want to trade for him. If they know that he's probably going to slow down and therefore maybe be cheaper... why on Earth would they trade you for him now? If you're trading for a rental Nyquist, you're probably high up in contention right now. You can't sell a player without buyers. And say... St. Louis continues their skid and make EVERYONE available like Friedman says. Who are you lining up for? Nyquist or Vladimir Tarasenko?

Depends how much you want to mortgage. There is no way Tarasenko comes cheap. I keep trying to figure out what I'd put together for Pietrangelo.
 
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WingsMJN2965

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I only get 4 trades w/o a 1st coming back. What am I missing?
CAL/NYI, DRW/LVK, NASH/CHI, TBL/NYR,

STL/PHI (Brayden Schenn, although this technically swapped 1sts)
PIT/OTT (Brassard)
NYR/BOS (Nash)
STL/WPG (Stastny)

So I actually miscounted and there's technically eight. Though that STL/PHI did exchange picks so really shouldn't count.

You probably missed the Pittsburgh and Boston picks because they were then again traded in pick swaps.
 
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WingsMJN2965

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Depends how much you want to mortgage. There is no way Tarasenko comes cheap. I keep trying to figure out what I'd put together for Pietrangelo.

The assets it'd take to acquire either aren't worth it. Pietro would be 32 or 33 by the time we're really ready to contend.
 

Lil Sebastian Cossa

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Jul 6, 2012
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The assets it'd take to acquire either aren't worth it. Pietro would be 32 or 33 by the time we're really ready to contend.

And? He'd still be a damn sight better than any realistic defense prospect we take.

I take Pietro at 32 years old over any defenseman in last years draft not named Dahlin. I mean, obviously you don't get absolutely insane to get him, but avoiding a top pairing D in his late 20s now, early 30s in a couple years when we should have more talent is silliness.

Depends how much you want to mortgage. There is no way Tarasenko comes cheap. I keep trying to figure out what I'd put together for Pietrangelo.

But that's more what I'm saying. Any return you get for Nyquist is going to be predicated on what Tarasenko might go for. No team is seriously going to come hard after Nyquist without at least asking on Tank first. So, I don't think that Nyquist's value is higher now than it would be at the TDL. At the TDL, he could potentially be "the consolation prize" after a team ponies up big for Tank and their rivals all of a sudden need to make a move to answer.
 
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FMichael

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Dec 22, 2010
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It might sound scummy but our best bet for getting this is hoping a top tier goalie on a playoff team has a major injury. That will drive the market value way up for a Howard rental.
This.

And teams that were originally rumored in wanting Howard are well outta the playoff picture right now (St.Louis, and to a lesser extent Philly).
 
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WingsMJN2965

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And? He'd still be a damn sight better than any realistic defense prospect we take.

I take Pietro at 32 years old over any defenseman in last years draft not named Dahlin. I mean, obviously you don't get absolutely insane to get him, but avoiding a top pairing D in his late 20s now, early 30s in a couple years when we should have more talent is silliness.

St Louis doesn't start that conversation without a 1st or Zadina involved. No thanks.
 

Shaman464

No u
May 1, 2009
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No problem with Holland saying this. No car dealer says 'I want to sell this car for the fair market price!' They say 'I want to sell if for 30% more than that!' and let the buyer work him down to what he actually expects.
 

PullHard

Jul 18, 2007
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No harm in asking for a lot when it has been pretty much publicized Hextall lost his job for not making this exact trade.

It is pretty clear St. Louis is in a similar spot. Calgary is winning but having interesting results between Smith and Rittich.

Might end up being something like conditional 2nd + prospect, with the conditions being something like Howard playing x # of games and the team he lands on winning a playoff series or two.

All the power to Kenny. He has done an admirable job in getting value for guys like Smith, Jurco, Tatar, Kindl, etc. considering how their careers have panned out. Why sell low on a goalie who has actually hung around the league for a decade and has had respectable numbers playing behind bottom feeder defenders?
 

Lil Sebastian Cossa

Opinions are share are my own personal opinions.
Jul 6, 2012
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No harm in asking for a lot when it has been pretty much publicized Hextall lost his job for not making this exact trade.

It is pretty clear St. Louis is in a similar spot. Calgary is winning but having interesting results between Smith and Rittich.

Might end up being something like conditional 2nd + prospect, with the conditions being something like Howard playing x # of games and the team he lands on winning a playoff series or two.

All the power to Kenny. He has done an admirable job in getting value for guys like Smith, Jurco, Tatar, Kindl, etc. considering how their careers have panned out. Why sell low on a goalie who has actually hung around the league for a decade and has had respectable numbers playing behind bottom feeder defenders?

Because Holland is a jackass that can't do anything right. :mad: If it were up to him, Danny Cleary, Brent Gilchrist, and Boyd Devereaux would be our first line and we'd be 0-934.

But still not ever win the lottery and find some way to trade a first for Dan Cleary every year.
 

PullHard

Jul 18, 2007
28,377
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Because Holland is a jackass that can't do anything right. :mad: If it were up to him, Danny Cleary, Brent Gilchrist, and Boyd Devereaux would be our first line and we'd be 0-934.

But still not ever win the lottery and find some way to trade a first for Dan Cleary every year.

Oh right, I forgot about that part
 

Rzombo4 prez

Registered User
May 17, 2012
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Well he is at least smart not to open with his final offer. To return a first there would need to be a ton of conditions attached. But hey, here is to hoping that a legit contender encounters serious injury issues between the pipes.
 

Perfect Human

Registered User
Dec 17, 2014
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If the wings get a first Howard, I wouldn't mind. But I think he needs to resign this offseason 100%.

The team needs to be competitive to keep the development going. If Zadina, Hronek, and another youngster (Veleno!?) were full time in 19-20, which I expect, and the team has the most GA in the league because Bernier isn't a bonafide starter, it will hurt their confidence and possibly development.

The Wings need to have a goalie at least as good as Jimmy to keep the team in games and let kids rise to the occasion.
 

14ari13

Registered User
Oct 19, 2006
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I think even one first rounder might not be enough. The way Howard is playing, maybe we could ask for two or three.
Howard plays great and is the main reason why we are in a dog fight for a playoff spot.


Where are the posters who had so many fights with me when I said Howard was terrible and they called me a hater. Now I say he plays great.

I do not remember any name.
 

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