Speculation: Red Wings U25 team

[Henkka]

LW	CE	RW
Athanasiou -94	Larkin -96	Mantha -94
Bertuzzi -95	Veleno -00	Zadina -99
Rasmussen -99	"Cozens/Dach" -01	Svechnikov -96
Hirose -96	DeLaRose -95	Berggren -00
Ehn -96	Turgeon -96	G.Smith -98
	Long shots
LW	CE	RW
Kivenmäki -00	Pearson -97	O'Reilly -00
Pope -94	Gallant -99	Zablocki -98
Elfström -97	Gilmour -99	Adams -97

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

	LD	RD
6'1	McIsaac -00	Hronek -97	6'0
6'2	Cholowski -98	Bowey - 95	6'1
5'9	Hicketts -96	Kaski -95	6'3
		Lindström -98	6'2
		Regula -00	6'4
	Long shots
6'6	Setkov -99	Saarijärvi -97	5'10
6'2	Kotkansalo -98	Holway -96	6'4
6'3	Sulak -94	Barton -99	6'3
6'2	Malmström -98	Fraser -99	6'2

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Goalies

Larsson -98

Eliasson -00

Rybar -93

Fulcher -98

Petruzzelli -99

Pottelberghe -97

Brattström -97

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Guys are on my some kind of mutual potential/NHL hitting probability order.

They are adding the kid core here and there.

There's really hard push for those right-handed defencemen.

Click to read more...

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

That team sucks. We need more picks!

 

[Gniwder]

That team sucks. We need more picks!

It certainly shows the lack of elite talent and a need for another LD.

 

[Henkka]

What if Veleno and 6th overall will become elite talent?

 

[Gniwder]

What if Veleno and 6th overall will become elite talent?

I think Veleno's gonna be an NHLer, just not elite. Elite players dominate at the junior level (2 ppg or higher), just looks at these stats:
QMJHL All-Time Points per Game Leaders

There's a chance that this year's pick could be elite, one can only hope.

 

[Leadzedder]

I think Veleno's gonna be an NHLer, just not elite. Elite players dominate at the junior level (2 ppg or higher), just looks at these stats:
QMJHL All-Time Points per Game Leaders

There's a chance that this year's pick could be elite, one can only hope.

Well, that's a useless link. A list of 50 players. 2 of which are current nhl'ers. Crosby and Drouin.

Good find.

 

[Henkka]

How did Brad Marchand become Elite?

 

[Gniwder]

Well, that's a useless link. A list of 50 players. 2 of which are current nhl'ers. Crosby and Drouin.

Good find.

There's 736 players in the list or 696 if you pick only forwards, and you can select current players as well where Veleno places 3rg at 1.157 ppg.
Active QMJHL Forwards ‑ All-Time Points per Game Leaders

If you can't figure out how to use a web page that's your problem, not mine. You don't need to be a dick about it.

How did Brad Marchand become Elite?

Same way Rafalski became a good defenseman,. There are always going to be late bloomers, but it's the exception, not the rule.

 

[Leibinger6]

I see names like Timo Meier, Yanni Gourde, Jason Pominville around the same career PPG - active players.

Also keep in mind the context of his situation. He entered the league a year before anyone else and played a good majority of his time either buried behind depth, to then on a brutal team. Since the trade to Drummondville he’s closer to the 1.62 PPG, which puts him at or above some very good company.

 

[Gniwder]

I see names like Timo Meier, Yanni Gourde, Jason Pominville around the same career PPG - active players.

Also keep in mind the context of his situation. He entered the league a year before anyone else and played a good majority of his time either buried behind depth, to then on a brutal team. Since the trade to Drummondville he’s closer to the 1.62 PPG, which puts him at or above some very good company.

If you're only going to look at the final year, you should do that with the players you compare him to. The elite players were all 2 ppg or higher the year after the draft.

I think Veleno will be a good contributor at the NHL level, just don't see him being elite. If he winds up being 2C, I'd be happy with that, anything above that is bonus. It's just realistic expectations. Remember Mantha was 2 PPG player in the same league.

 

[Winger98]

How did Brad Marchand become Elite?

rule changes made it so he hasn't had to worry about picking his teeth up off the ice for the stupid crap he does. He's also pulled back on the stupid crap a bit and plays more hockey.

 

[Leibinger6]

If you're only going to look at the final year, you should do that with the players you compare him to. The elite players were all 2 ppg or higher the year after the draft.

I think Veleno will be a good contributor at the NHL level, just don't see him being elite. If he winds up being 2C, I'd be happy with that, anything above that is bonus. It's just realistic expectations. Remember Mantha was 2 PPG player in the same league.

Not looking at the final year. He was on Drummondville last year as well.

 

[Gniwder]

Not looking at the final year. He was on Drummondville last year as well.

Obviously an English issue here.....

If you're only going to look at Veleno's best season in the Q, then look at other player's best season in the Q. Typically a player's best season is their last (or final) season in juniors. For example Crosby had 168 pts in 62 games in '04-'05 which was his last and final season in the Q. Veleno's stats don't come anywhere close.

 

[Henkka]

I think Veleno is not Crosby.

And the qualcomps between years in junior leagues differ very much. That's why some great scorers flop totally (or defenceman of the Year like Ouellet never comes anything significant) and some won't.

It just waste of time to compare on earlier years, when there's so many 2 points/game guys who didn't become anything.

Hockey is changing and anything that happened 10 years ago, it's not a signal for the future.

 

[NickH8]

I think Veleno is not Crosby.

And the qualcomps between years in junior leagues differ very much. That's why some great scorers flop totally (or defenceman of the Year like Ouellet never comes anything significant) and some won't.

It just waste of time to compare on earlier years, when there's so many 2 points/game guys who didn't become anything.

Hockey is changing and anything that happened 10 years ago, it's not a signal for the future.

"I think Veleno is not Crosby"
Henkka 2020!

 

[Henkka]

What if Veleno becomes "Bergeron", who scored 73 points on 70 games on his last QMJHL season?

Buys our two-way center culture, already scored more SH goals than PP goals there.

Scoring is not all, being great both offensively and defensively is.

I'd like to have all those Boston guys (Marchand-Bergeron-Pastrnak) which were matured through their farm system) for 6M, than any of Toronto's guys (Tavares-Matthews-Marner) with 11M caphit which will kill your cap.

Freaking 15M difference !

Love that Boston model. Our management has been talking about same things as Boston is completing now, but not been as good drafters as them lately.

 

[ThankGord]

What if Veleno becomes "Bergeron", who scored 73 points on 70 games on his last QMJHL season?

Buys our two-way center culture, already scored more SH goals than PP goals there.

Scoring is not all, being great both offensively and defensively is.

I'd like to have all those Boston guys (Marchand-Bergeron-Pastrnak) which were matured through their farm system) for 6M, than any of Toronto's guys (Tavares-Matthews-Marner) with 11M caphit which will kill your cap.

Freaking 15M difference !

Love that Boston model. Our management has been talking about same things as Boston is completing now, but not been as good drafters as them lately.

Definitely like the Boston model. I can see Veleno becoming a defensively responsible Bergeron-type two-way 2C (at his maximum potential). I also think it's possible for Bertuzzi to become a Marchand-type of player, do you think he has it in him?

 

[wingfan]

What if Veleno becomes "Bergeron", who scored 73 points on 70 games on his last QMJHL season?

Buys our two-way center culture, already scored more SH goals than PP goals there.

Scoring is not all, being great both offensively and defensively is.

I'd like to have all those Boston guys (Marchand-Bergeron-Pastrnak) which were matured through their farm system) for 6M, than any of Toronto's guys (Tavares-Matthews-Marner) with 11M caphit which will kill your cap.

Freaking 15M difference !

Love that Boston model. Our management has been talking about same things as Boston is completing now, but not been as good drafters as them lately.

I think you're on to something here. The only team left in the playoffs with a superstar that I'd put on the Matthews/Marner level is probably Colorado with Mackinnon. Outside of that you have a bunch of teams with really good depth across the board, 3 legit scoring lines and defensive depth. The biggest knock on a lot of these teams with superstars getting bounced has been just that, lack of quality scoring depth.

 

[Henkka]

I think you're on to something here. The only team left in the playoffs with a superstar that I'd put on the Matthews/Marner level is probably Colorado with Mackinnon..

Yeah, and what's common, Colorado also has MacKinnon with a bargain contract.

It seems more and more, that lottery-height draft picks are more of a cap killer when the ELCs will end, than an advantage when building a deep team for a playoff-success.

Only players I would be ready to pay 11-12.5M, are 30-minute defencemen ("Lidström") and those kind of won't exist anymore. Hedman/Doughty, maybe.

 

[izlez]

I think Veleno's gonna be an NHLer, just not elite. Elite players dominate at the junior level (2 ppg or higher), just looks at these stats:
QMJHL All-Time Points per Game Leaders

There's a chance that this year's pick could be elite, one can only hope.

"Elite players dominate at the junior level. Look at this list of players that dominated the junior level!"

....kind of a backwards way of looking at it, don't you think? How is a list of the best junior level players going to show elite players that didn't dominate the junior level?

 

[Bench]

rule changes made it so he hasn't had to worry about picking his teeth up off the ice for the stupid crap he does. He's also pulled back on the stupid crap a bit and plays more hockey.

And he was the 71st overall pick despite being 5'9". That definitely says the skill was always there. Put him in a 6'3" frame and he was an easy 1st rounder.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

What if Veleno becomes "Bergeron", who scored 73 points on 70 games on his last QMJHL season?

Buys our two-way center culture, already scored more SH goals than PP goals there.

Scoring is not all, being great both offensively and defensively is.

I'd like to have all those Boston guys (Marchand-Bergeron-Pastrnak) which were matured through their farm system) for 6M, than any of Toronto's guys (Tavares-Matthews-Marner) with 11M caphit which will kill your cap.

Freaking 15M difference !

Love that Boston model. Our management has been talking about same things as Boston is completing now, but not been as good drafters as them lately.

Patrice Bergeron is the best defensive forward maybe of my lifetime. Don't gloss over that part too quickly. He is a superstar player though in my opinion, it did take him a while to get there, he routinely bends the game to the Bruins favor. I agree they did much better with their big guns contracts in Boston. I will be curious what McAvoy costs them.

 

[Gniwder]

"Elite players dominate at the junior level. Look at this list of players that dominated the junior level!"

....kind of a backwards way of looking at it, don't you think? How is a list of the best junior level players going to show elite players that didn't dominate the junior level?

That's the whole point, elite players usually dominate at the junior level. Late bloomers are the exception, not the rule. The converse is not true, just because a player dominates at the junior level doesn't necessary mean he can carry it to the next level. You guys need to take a logic class.

Veleno hasn't dominated in the Q, I don't expect him to be elite. I'm not making any profound argument here, just answering Henkka's question which was "What if Veleno and 6th overall will become elite talent?"

Sure there are outliers, but that's like saying what if Lindstrom becomes the next Lidstrom? Sure it can happen, but I wouldn't bet my lunch money on it.

 

[TCNorthstars]

Patrice Bergeron is the best defensive forward maybe of my lifetime. Don't gloss over that part too quickly. He is a superstar player though in my opinion, it did take him a while to get there, he routinely bends the game to the Bruins favor. I agree they did much better with their big guns contracts in Boston. I will be curious what McAvoy costs them.

It was also a bit different 6 years ago when Bergeron signed his contract. Heck even 3 years ago when Marchand signed his. What do those guy get in todays world?

 

[Leibinger6]

That's the whole point, elite players usually dominate at the junior level. Late bloomers are the exception, not the rule. The converse is not true, just because a player dominates at the junior level doesn't necessary mean he can carry it to the next level. You guys need to take a logic class.

Veleno hasn't dominated in the Q, I don't expect him to be elite. I'm not making any profound argument here, just answering Henkka's question which was "What if Veleno and 6th overall will become elite talent?"

Sure there are outliers, but that's like saying what if Lindstrom becomes the next Lidstrom? Sure it can happen, but I wouldn't bet my lunch money on it.

You’re saying Veleno didn’t dominate in juniors this year at almost 2 PPG?