Red Wings prospect voting, #4 prospect

[PelagicJoe]

Veleno. Add Axel or Turgeon I guess.

 

[Shaman464]

This should be Cholo by a landslide. Really think people are sleeping on him. If there’s a D in the system with #1 potential, it’s him.

That's like saying 'if there's a hot dog eating contest winner here its Sunflower' at a PETA meeting. And that's to say, just because he's the best in the system, doesn't make him a potential #1. He's a potential #3 in almost every scouting report ever written about him.

 

[newfy]

That's like saying 'if there's a hot dog eating contest winner here its Sunflower' at a PETA meeting. And that's to say, just because he's the best in the system, doesn't make him a potential #1. He's a potential #3 in almost every scouting report ever written about him.

Almost sounds like you havent watched him play BUT are still going to criticise other peoples opinions without knowing if they have. Doesnt seem like the best way to do things

 

[ChadS]

Berggren - I like our top-6 right now, very exiting group of kids and includes both D and F.

Add Sulak

 

[Pavels Dog]

That's like saying 'if there's a hot dog eating contest winner here its Sunflower' at a PETA meeting. And that's to say, just because he's the best in the system, doesn't make him a potential #1. He's a potential #3 in almost every scouting report ever written about him.

Few players that aren’t top 5 picks ever get ”#1D” written in their scouting report. It’s not likely, but in terms of raw potential or skillset I don’t see what limits him.
He will turn some heads pretty soon I think.

Very effortless and poised with the puck.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

Few players that aren’t top 5 picks ever get ”#1D” written in their scouting report. It’s not likely, but in terms of raw potential or skillset I don’t see what limits him.
He will turn some heads pretty soon I think.

I definitely think his stock has gone up since being drafted, which helps his case a lot.

Also, I voted for Cholo here. He’s right behind Zadina and Hronek for me.


I think Hronek and Cholowski will be surefire difference makers for this group, they seem like #2/#3 defensemen.

 

[Ulysses31]

Cant remember a time when red wings had so many good prospects

 

[Ulysses31]

Going to be tight between berggren and veleno!!!

 

[Henkka]

I think we can go to #5.

I'll add both Pope and Larsson.

 

[Shaman464]

Almost sounds like you havent watched him play BUT are still going to criticise other peoples opinions without knowing if they have. Doesnt seem like the best way to do things

Except I saw him play for St Cloud.... in person... but beyond that, watching streams of him in the WHL and prospect camps and preseason play, no I have never seen him play in my life. Its almost as if I don't believe he's the next Orr and Ras is the next Bobby Hull I don't know what I am talking about...

 

[golffuul]

People are forgetting Svechnikov too soon...

Maybe it shows the quality of our drafting since Svechnikov? Not that Svech is a bad prospect, just that we have a few more who are better. Could be good for the future of the franchise.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I know you think he’s overrated, but kid was a consensus top 3 center in this draft all year right to the end... I mean he even was in Bob’s final ranking.

So not really sure why you are surprised.

A consensus top 3 center in a draft class with few good centers. I personally think he was great value at 30. Being a good value on draft day does not, however, change your ultimate ceiling.

I don't dislike him but I don't see the upside that others are attributing to him. When you ignore the exceptional status and early season draft rankings and you look at him for what he honestly is, a third-line center is the most probable outcome. He hasn't shown much of any scoring ability and is not particularly creative with the puck even though he has above average hands. His calling cards are his feet and his motor.

Mark my words: five years from now people will be bitching that Veleno doesn't get more out of his tools.

I think Cholo will play far more meaningful minutes than Veleno at the end of the day and will have a far greater impact on the fortunes of the team.

 

[newfy]

Except I saw him play for St Cloud.... in person... but beyond that, watching streams of him in the WHL and prospect camps and preseason play, no I have never seen him play in my life. Its almost as if I don't believe he's the next Orr and Ras is the next Bobby Hull I don't know what I am talking about...

So you've watched him play that much but choose to say that in the scouting reports youve read he looks like a potential number 3. If youve seen him that much you should be in these threads where people are overhyping him and tell them why not just that youve read he sounds like a #3. I think plenty of what I've read says he has the two way ability, skating and now size (which was the big thing holding him back) to be a top pairing guy. Not a number one dman and saying hes a potential top pairing guy isnt saying that he is for sure going to be a top pairing guy either.

I think hes tracking to be a top 4 D for sure but hard to get a read on personally. I do think hes got a better package than Hronek though

 

[Shaman464]

So you've watched him play that much but choose to say that in the scouting reports youve read he looks like a potential number 3. If youve seen him that much you should be in these threads where people are overhyping him and tell them why not just that youve read he sounds like a #3. I think plenty of what I've read says he has the two way ability, skating and now size (which was the big thing holding him back) to be a top pairing guy. Not a number one dman and saying hes a potential top pairing guy isnt saying that he is for sure going to be a top pairing guy either.

I think hes tracking to be a top 4 D for sure but hard to get a read on personally. I do think hes got a better package than Hronek though

I see Cholo's ceiling as a #3 two way defenseman and Hronek being a #4 PP specialist. Cholo's never shown top end ability defensively and his offense is good, but not great. I don't say he's a #3 guy as a knock against him, because it would still be good for his draft position and still the best defender Detroit's drafted since Kronwall.

 

[Frk It]

A consensus top 3 center in a draft class with few good centers. I personally think he was great value at 30. Being a good value on draft day does not, however, change your ultimate ceiling.

I don't dislike him but I don't see the upside that others are attributing to him. When you ignore the exceptional status and early season draft rankings and you look at him for what he honestly is, a third-line center is the most probable outcome. He hasn't shown much of any scoring ability and is not particularly creative with the puck even though he has above average hands. His calling cards are his feet and his motor.

Mark my words: five years from now people will be *****ing that Veleno doesn't get more out of his tools.

I think Cholo will play far more meaningful minutes than Veleno at the end of the day and will have a far greater impact on the fortunes of the team.

With the way he plays I could see him being an effective 2nd line center with a high assist ratio like someone like Derek Stepan. But we will see how things play out, I guess.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Mark my words: five years from now people will be *****ing that Veleno doesn't get more out of his tools.

This goes one of two ways, either he develops positively like Larkin did (not necessarily to the same level) and a select few will be ragging on other people for comparing him to Helm and capping him as a 3C...or...he will end up a 3C comparable to Helm and he will be despised to unbelievable levels. Because there is no middle ground with how our players get treated in Detroit.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

This goes one of two ways, either he develops positively like Larkin did (not necessarily to the same level) and a select few will be ragging on other people for comparing him to Helm and capping him as a 3C...or...he will end up a 3C comparable to Helm and he will be despised to unbelievable levels. Because there is no middle ground with how our players get treated in Detroit.

Let me put it this way: some players are better players than the sum of their respective physical skills. Other players are merely equal to or worse than the sum of their respective physical skills. If I had to bet my house and risk becoming homeless, I would bet that Veleno falls into the second camp. This is ultimately an assessment of his hockey IQ, creativity and how he understands the play unfolding. This does not mean that he will be a bad NHL player. It is merely a predication that he will leave people wanting more given the quality of his respective tools.

 

[Henkka]

This does not mean that he will be a bad NHL player. It is merely a predication that he will leave people wanting more given the quality of his respective tools.

Still a good draft pick. We can trade him later.

 

[Frk It]

Let me put it this way: some players are better players than the sum of their respective physical skills. Other players are merely equal to or worse than the sum of their respective physical skills. If I had to bet my house and risk becoming homeless, I would bet that Veleno falls into the second camp. This is ultimately an assessment of his hockey IQ, creativity and how he understands the play unfolding. This does not mean that he will be a bad NHL player. It is merely a predication that he will leave people wanting more given the quality of his respective tools.

Well, I see those same risks with our 1st rounder last year, who was taken much higher.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Let me put it this way: some players are better players than the sum of their respective physical skills. Other players are merely equal to or worse than the sum of their respective physical skills. If I had to bet my house and risk becoming homeless, I would bet that Veleno falls into the second camp. This is ultimately an assessment of his hockey IQ, creativity and how he understands the play unfolding. This does not mean that he will be a bad NHL player. It is merely a predication that he will leave people wanting more given the quality of his respective tools.

I mean, everything is a gamble with prospects and development. My point wasn't to refute your post at all, but was made in jest in regard to how Detroit fans (applies to any sport) have a mob mentality of hyping up the good players to very very high levels, but if a player ever gets preferential treatment like Helm, or too much money like Abdelkader, or never live up to the expectations of a high pick like Smith/Kindl/Sheahan etc., or if you ever get compared to these players and never exceed the comparison, you become the new target for hate.

Look at Rasmussen last year. He didn't meet the expectations of what the fanbase wanted from #9, so he was immediately criticized. Now that he has proven that he was better than advertised in his draft year, people are starting to change their tune. If he improves even more, he will start receiving unreal praise and protection from the fan base. But you can also fall out of grace quickly, eg. Athanasiou.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Well, I see those same risks with our 1st rounder last year, who was taken much higher.

For sure, though I think these two are almost complete opposites in many ways too. I think Ras has better offensive IQ but will be a bit more dependent on his line mates. I think Veleno will do a lot of heavy lifting for his line and will probably do it really well. People will think that Ras isn't very good because he won't have the puck on his stick for long stretches. People will think that Veleno is really good simply because he has the puck on his stick a lot. These two will be an interesting case study moving forward.

Again, I don't think Veleno was a bad pick at 30, I just think the most likely outcome is that he becomes a really good third-line center. Those guys are valuable and are important for good teams.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Still a good draft pick. We can trade him later.

I have no complaints about taking him at 30.

 

[Henkka]

Again, I don't think Veleno was a bad pick at 30, I just think the most likely outcome is that he becomes a really good third-line center. Those guys are valuable and are important for good teams.

Everything points to that "grittier Filppula".

In a deep team, 3rd line center and/or 2nd line winger when Babcock trimmed to 3-lines on the 3rd period.

Filppula also gave the feeling about "wanting more". Only problem for me was that non-shooting. He did everything else just fine.