Red Wings hire Mike Barwis

evolutionbaby

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Jan 7, 2012
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Most ppl here are focused on the recovery side but I’ve said it since the lockout and the game has evolved....we have a “light team”. Sure guys work hard but we need to be “heavier” not necessarily weight wise but physically we aren’t taking a toll on anyone. In a 7 game series, teams aren’t moving in from us banged up. Our skill guys are skill guys and that’s it. Look at how many big bodies can score, grind etc. We simply don’t have the skill to play that beautiful style of hockey we once did.
 
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Lil Sebastian Cossa

Opinions are share are my own personal opinions.
Jul 6, 2012
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Most ppl here are focused on the recovery side but I’ve said it since the lockout and the game has evolved....we have a “light team”. Sure guys work hard but we need to be “heavier” not necessarily weight wise but physically we aren’t taking a toll on anyone. In a 7 game series, teams aren’t moving in from us banged up. Our skill guys are skill guys and that’s it. Look at how many big bodies can score, grind etc. We simply don’t have the skill to play that beautiful style of hockey we once did.

Naw, we need to be heavier. 6'7" 400 lbs with pink mohawks. That's always your best hockey players. EA Sports told me so.
 

LarKing

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Sep 2, 2012
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I remember when the wings had a ridiculous year for injuries like 5 years ago or so and I read somewhere that the wings had no strength and conditioning coach and I was mortified. How a pro sports team doesn’t have one is mind boggling. Idk about the state they are in now with that, but this really doesn’t surprise me.
 

Lil Sebastian Cossa

Opinions are share are my own personal opinions.
Jul 6, 2012
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This news of subpar Wings training reminds me of the softball video last summer with Jimmy sporting love handles and DeKeyser looking like Slender Man.

I'm not stunned about this news, is what I'm saying.

So you're telling me that if we made Jimmy DeKeyser and Danny Howard, we would have had two incredibly functional and perfectly proportioned hockey players.

E: Or two incredibly frightening abominations.
 

Retire91

Stevey Y you our Guy
May 31, 2010
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I don't think hockey will ever see NFL bodies hockey is more like soccer a balance of strength and endurance. NFL is about 10-12 seconds of raw explosion of size and power and then stop for the next play. Hockey is sustained perpetual motion and transition. I think Jagr and Martin St Loius are good examples of bodies built for hockey. Those tree trunk legs. Guys with both elite mobility and freakish size like Mario, Lindros, Chara are huge advantages but that combination is very rare.

Let's get our peeps on those leg machines
 
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Lazlo Hollyfeld

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Mar 4, 2004
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I remember when the wings had a ridiculous year for injuries like 5 years ago or so and I read somewhere that the wings had no strength and conditioning coach and I was mortified. How a pro sports team doesn’t have one is mind boggling. Idk about the state they are in now with that, but this really doesn’t surprise me.
I was trying to remember exactly when but there was definitely a time when the team was plagued with "soft tissue" injuries. Pulled groin and whatnot. Which definitely could be a function of improper training, rehab, etc.


EDIT: I found some articles referring to the time I was thinking of.

Red Wings continue exploring ways to reduce 'soft tissue injuries' that have plagued them - mlive.com

Red Wings Training Staff Working to Avoid the Injury Bug | Detroit Sports Nation
 
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Lazlo Hollyfeld

The jersey ad still sucks
Mar 4, 2004
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This news of subpar Wings training reminds me of the softball video last summer with Jimmy sporting love handles and DeKeyser looking like Slender Man.

I'm not stunned about this news, is what I'm saying.
You're being kind calling them "love handles." It seriously looked like they accidentally gave Dekeyser's diet to Jimmy and Jimmy's diet to Dekeyser.
 

haulinbass

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Mar 6, 2014
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I may have some bias as I come from the strength and conditionong field, but strength and conditionong is the #1 easiest way to improve a team snd there is absolutely no excuse to have a program that poor. Thats pathetic imo.

I know in years past everyone joked about this franchise being the old boys club, but it seems it has still been run that way even though all the old stars are gone. Im very glad to see Yzerman addressing the lacking areas and giving this organization a slight overhaul.

A little tidbit, my gym partner over the last few years played AAA hockey his entire life. He never started lifting weights until his hockey career was over. I packed almost 40lbs of muscle on this kid over the last 3 years, and when he stepped on the ice for the first time in years he was blown away at how good his skating was. He had not been on the ice in years, he weighed way more then he did back then, and was still much much quicker then he used to be.

Off ice training makes an unbelievable difference and it blows my mind how many NHL players are in pathetic shape off the ice. Hell, my cousin played all the way through a D1 hockey program and was never even taught how to do a proper squat until I showed him. The NHL recently posted a video of Michael Grabner doing squats with what appears to be 315lbs, but he is completely breaking at the knees and not even hitting paralell on the lift, its a pretty bad squat to my standards. I would wager most NHL players are just as clueless in the weight room. MSL is the only NHL player ive seen execute a good squat on video.

Most personal trainers and none pro level strength and conditioning coaches don't know shit about actually getting significantly strong. Text books in college only go so far and I know that because I been down that road too. I'm not talking 300lb benches and 400lb squats, anybody can get that far with some effort, half assed diet and half assed training principles.

I've squatted 605 parralel for 2 reps at 6ft and my main priorities have never been strength. I don't ever max out and those numbers were recorded on my 4th working set. 80% of my squat training is done above parallel and a large portion of it being box squat above parallel. Many of the strongest guys in the world do significant box squatting and above parallel work. Even on chest such as board presses, 2 board presses, etc. Explosive short ranges of motion build strength and power. There is also another concept to go with that. Training fragile (slow maximum range of motion nearly 100% of time) builds fragile muscles, tendons and joints opposed to explosion building resistance to jerky unpredictable motions encountered in real life and sports. I'm not talking about being reckless either. But explosion, body english, etc is necessary and should be trained regular. There is certainly a place for slow and controlled reps as well and I do plenty of those after my big lifts, but you won't get far just relying on training that way.

Now I don't know what Michael Grabner's squat looks like, but it does make me cringe when people take shots at those training above parallel. I mean seriously, the strongest guys in the world do it for a reason. Most of the people that have degrees in kinesiology, exercise science, strength and conditioning are the last people I would want advising me on getting bigger/stronger. They are typically people who only studied and have zero clue of what it actually takes to reach elite strength levels. These people from my personal experience are the first ones to knock someone much more advanced in training when they themselves are a measly 170lbs looking like a casual gym goer.
 
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RedWingsDad

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Jul 30, 2013
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Naw, we need to be heavier. 6'7" 400 lbs with pink mohawks. That's always your best hockey players. EA Sports told me so.

You are spot on sir.

Also, Ice Hockey for the NES taught me that a team full of fatties is always the way to go.

As evidence, notice the 3 fatties to only 1 skinny guy ratio on the team that scored the goal whilst the other team has only 1 single fatty.

ice-hockey-nes-014_zpse1572b42.jpg
 

DocWho81

Registered User
Apr 20, 2019
6
1
If this is true, I'm frankly kind of shocked. When you have as deep of pockets as the Wings franchise does, there's really no excuse for being behind the times.

In the past maybe they were trying to fix Stephen Weiss by drilling holes in his groin to let the evil spirits out? It would explain a lot.
That’s funny, because it’s as good an explanation as any. What a waste of money and roster space that was.
 

deca guard

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Jun 22, 2019
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improper training philosophy could explain why our draft pix did so bad for so long . you draft a guy and control his training for say 3 years with an outdated program while other teams have better developmental programs your guys are going to fall offthe pace when trying to step into nhl . whenever i saw redwing training room pics it was always benching and squating heavy weights , i think which was just basically players wanting to look more muscular and the team wanting them to add weight . i think back to all the old injury era and my thought was howards probably squating heavy weights creating slow moving large thighs/hams that tear when pushed to stretch and move quickly . anyway 19s the best gm in nhl and maybe thee most valuable asset in nhl and i know hes doing whats best
 

cjm502

Bingo Bango!
Jun 22, 2010
1,791
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Mid Michigan
Most personal trainers and none pro level strength and conditioning coaches don't know **** about actually getting significantly strong. Text books in college only go so far and I know that because I been down that road too. I'm not talking 300lb benches and 400lb squats, anybody can get that far with some effort, half assed diet and half assed training principles.

I've squatted 605 parralel for 2 reps at 6ft and my main priorities have never been strength. I don't ever max out and those numbers were recorded on my 4th working set. 80% of my squat training is done above parallel and a large portion of it being box squat above parallel. Many of the strongest guys in the world do significant box squatting and above parallel work. Even on chest such as board presses, 2 board presses, etc. Explosive short ranges of motion build strength and power. There is also another concept to go with that. Training fragile (slow maximum range of motion nearly 100% of time) builds fragile muscles, tendons and joints opposed to explosion building resistance to jerky unpredictable motions encountered in real life and sports. I'm not talking about being reckless either. But explosion, body english, etc is necessary and should be trained regular. There is certainly a place for slow and controlled reps as well and I do plenty of those after my big lifts, but you won't get far just relying on training that way.

Now I don't know what Michael Grabner's squat looks like, but it does make me cringe when people take shots at those training above parallel. I mean seriously, the strongest guys in the world do it for a reason. Most of the people that have degrees in kinesiology, exercise science, strength and conditioning are the last people I would want advising me on getting bigger/stronger. They are typically people who only studied and have zero clue of what it actually takes to reach elite strength levels. These people from my personal experience are the first ones to knock someone much more advanced in training when they themselves are a measly 170lbs looking like a casual gym goer.

I dont disagree with anything you said at all and I was half way expecting a "hes squatting like that on purpose or for a reason" post from someone. I just happen find that very unlikely he was doing it that way for a reason, as his squat looked horrendous outside of being done above paralell. Grabner was a classic case of someone pushing the weight as high as they can without knowing what they're doing in the first place. You know as well as I do that 90% of the time when people in the weight room do half squats it is because they think thats a full squat, not because it is more advantageous for their training.
 

haulinbass

Registered User
Mar 6, 2014
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I dont disagree with anything you said at all and I was half way expecting a "hes squatting like that on purpose or for a reason" post from someone. I just happen find that very unlikely he was doing it that way for a reason, as his squat looked horrendous outside of being done above paralell. Grabner was a classic case of someone pushing the weight as high as they can without knowing what they're doing in the first place. You know as well as I do that 90% of the time when people in the weight room do half squats it is because they think thats a full squat, not because it is more advantageous for their training.

Can't deny that

I couldn't find Grabners squat video but I would be curious to see it
 

deca guard

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Jun 22, 2019
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one indicator there was a problem was when red wings told dekeyser whom they wanted to put on weight to eat everything he wanted , the eric cartman beefcake program . hopefully that nutritionist is out going also
 
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haulinbass

Registered User
Mar 6, 2014
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So then why do pro sports teams hire exactly these people you describe?

Here is the start of the very 1st sentence of my post:

"Most personal trainers and none pro level strength and conditioning coaches"

Strength and conditioning coaches at high levels typically (even if not through their very own bodies) trained individuals through trial an error and eventually gained advanced knowledge in the real world to be supplemented with their education. There is a difference between someone with the same degree who practices it with regular level individuals and one who strives to achieve great success ultimately earning themselves roles at professional levels. These people trained numerous athletes monitoring them at such close levels its no different had they trained their own bodies. Same concept as someone who trains themselves with mediocre success vs someone who trains themselves succeeding at high levels. Same degree or not does not mean their abilities are in the same stratosphere. 10 years lifting vs another with 10 years lifting does not mean they are in the same stratosphere either. So with that said, most people who attain these degrees and even continue practicing it for a living aren't qualified to train at elite levels. An advanced weight lifter with no college education but a real world self-taught education would triumph described degree holders in this particular area. Degrees only go so far.

Pretty easy to understand right?
 
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