News Article: Red Wings have lost that magic feeling

[Winger98]

Originally saw this article on Malik's site, thought I'd bring it here with Ericsson's quote:

”We used to play with desperation and we were so dialed in with our preparations with an older and experienced team,” Ericsson said. ”We just knew we could turn around games and win. That feeling, especially last year, wasn’t there. And, it’s tough to get that feeling back.”

Okay, first, if this is what passes for an article these days...yikes. I'm wondering how people read this quote, though. On the one hand it's just talking about having a younger team, but the lack of preparation and being dialed in...oof. It's one thing to say the team just isn't good enough any more, they clearly don't have the same level of talent that this team had ten years ago. To lack preparation, though. That one is far rougher.

And this isn't to say coaches are magic men capable of single-handedly instilling these things in every player. At the same time, though, these are things that seem like coaching responsibilities 101.

Or is Ericsson just giving a garbled interview and isn't saying what he thinks he's saying?

Click to read more...

 

[Frk It]

Ideally yeah, Blashill would have them motivated at all times and whatnot.

At the same time, Ericsson has been around long enough to see them go from an actual contender to a team closer to the bottom than the top.. so at some point, I would imagine your mentality changes a little. You can't keep a winning culture forever.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

It's not really a motivation issue. The issue is that the Wings simply can't afford to make a single mistake on most nights if they want to be competitive. Talented rosters have a huge margin for error when it comes to winning.

Talented rosters can still be consistently good even if they only show up for one period. Teams like Detroit can't afford bad periods on most nights.

Ten years ago the Wings knew they had the more talented roster most nights.

Today the Wings know they will be facing a more talented opponent most of the time.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I honestly don't know what to make of the quote. I don't know what desperation he is talking about. This team has not been able to consistently put together three periods of good hockey since 08'-09'. Coming out of that Cup loss we would regularly take two periods off and do just enough to pull out the game in the third. That was preparation? And that was under Babcock. I also don't know if he is assigning blame to coaching or youth.

What exactly does preparation look like or actually mean? Is it short for starting on time? Not needing to make in-game adjustments? Making appropriate game-to-game adjustments? Is lack of preparation just a pseudonym for bad coaching?

The best argument for removing Blash in season is to isolate coaching as a variable or explanation of the team's performance. We would need to see the team under a different staff to really judge the difference. Comparing this team to quality teams from the past is really dangerous given the difference in talent.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Ideally yeah, Blashill would have them motivated at all times and whatnot.

At the same time, Ericsson has been around long enough to see them go from an actual contender to a team closer to the bottom than the top.. so at some point, I would imagine your mentality changes a little. You can't keep a winning culture forever.

If adult professional athletes need to be motivated by a coach, you probably have the wrong guys on the roster. That being said, I do think coaches have a large responsibility in managing the energy of their players and reading when they need to be pushed, when they need to be rested and when things are just getting stale for them.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Originally saw this article on Malik's site, thought I'd bring it here with Ericsson's quote:



Okay, first, if this is what passes for an article these days...yikes. I'm wondering how people read this quote, though. On the one hand it's just talking about having a younger team, but the lack of preparation and being dialed in...oof. It's one thing to say the team just isn't good enough any more, they clearly don't have the same level of talent that this team had ten years ago. To lack preparation, though. That one is far rougher.

And this isn't to say coaches are magic men capable of single-handedly instilling these things in every player. At the same time, though, these are things that seem like coaching responsibilities 101.

Or is Ericsson just giving a garbled interview and isn't saying what he thinks he's saying?

I'm going with garbled.

I have been on teams where in net I kinda know the score. I either have to be perfect or near perfect (shutout or 1 goal) for us to have a chance to win... or I have other teams that I know can score and if I have an off night and give up 2 or 3 goals early, they can come back for me.

I think he's actually saying the opposite of what he thinks he's saying. That they would play with desperation because they knew they were never out of a game when they had Datsyuk and Zetterberg in their primes and they could seemingly tilt the ice at will.

It has little to do with preparation. The Wings in their entire 25 year run would come out flat ALL the time. Hell, those late 90s, early 2000s teams could have conceivably won the Cup every single year... yet they didn't and sometimes in spectacular fashion. They've been as prepared or unprepared in what they do for 30 years.

Dialed in means they knew if they played their game, they would have a chance in every game no matter the situation. They don't have Pavel Datsyuk, their Staples Easy button for comebacks, anymore.

So the coach I don't think is the Magic Man you're looking for.

 

[Claypool]

I love how the team is being criticized for not sucking enough one year after missing the playoffs.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Just sounds like he's talking about that feeling of a team where 90% of the roster is veterans or guys in their prime who are all experienced and know exactly what to do. Right now they're a team trying to find a new identity with guys like Larkin/Mantha/Frk/AA/XO/Jensen/etc getting bigger roles and finding their way. There's no Lidstrom, there's no Dats and Z up front who you know will get things done most of the time. Nothing strange about it.

Also it's sad that "articles" like this is what we see instead of focusing on the positives of seeing young players step up. Most people predicted us to be among the worst teams before the season, and we still could be. But if we aren't, it's only going to be because Mantha/Larkin/etc break out. I'll take that over a slight bump in % chance in the lottery.

 

[raymond23]

I think he's basically saying that its apparent their roster isn't good enough to win, and the players know it.

 

[Redder Winger]

Just sounds like he's talking about that feeling of a team where 90% of the roster is veterans or guys in their prime who are all experienced and know exactly what to do. Right now they're a team trying to find a new identity with guys like Larkin/Mantha/Frk/AA/XO/Jensen/etc getting bigger roles and finding their way. There's no Lidstrom, there's no Dats and Z up front who you know will get things done most of the time. Nothing strange about it.

Also it's sad that "articles" like this is what we see instead of focusing on the positives of seeing young players step up. Most people predicted us to be among the worst teams before the season, and we still could be. But if we aren't, it's only going to be because Mantha/Larkin/etc break out. I'll take that over a slight bump in % chance in the lottery.

The media spent the last 5-6 years pretending the Red Wings were still a good team.
So they're just catching up.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I honestly don't know what to make of the quote. I don't know what desperation he is talking about. This team has not been able to consistently put together three periods of good hockey since 08'-09'. Coming out of that Cup loss we would regularly take two periods off and do just enough to pull out the game in the third. That was preparation? And that was under Babcock. I also don't know if he is assigning blame to coaching or youth.

What exactly does preparation look like or actually mean? Is it short for starting on time? Not needing to make in-game adjustments? Making appropriate game-to-game adjustments? Is lack of preparation just a pseudonym for bad coaching?

The best argument for removing Blash in season is to isolate coaching as a variable or explanation of the team's performance. We would need to see the team under a different staff to really judge the difference. Comparing this team to quality teams from the past is really dangerous given the difference in talent.

Sorry but it is pretty embarrassing when people pretend the last time this team was super competitive was 08-09.... It is probably my least favorite thing done on this forum. Things might not have panned out but they still had lots of talent for several years after that and I find it disingenuous when people do it here.

11-12 Red Wings for instance own the all-time record for consecutive home wins in the entire history of the NHL and were exceptional for three periods night in and night out and were steamrolling their way to a Presidents Trophy before injuries completely ravaged the team in February.

They didn't get bad the second they weren't playing in the finals, the bounces just didn't go there way a lot after that and they have declined in talent gradually. But the jump off point wasn't nearly as soon as most around here like to push.

Ericsson has seen that decline and I think he is trying to speak to it, but it is hard to flat out say we don't have the necessary talent. They cannot overcome many mistakes as others are saying in this thread.

 

[Claypool]

Sorry but it is pretty embarrassing when people pretend the last time this team was super competitive was 08-09.... It is probably my least favorite thing done on this forum. Things might not have panned out but they still had lots of talent for several years after that and I find it disingenuous when people do it here.

Pretty much. The first time they were really outclassed in the playoffs was 2015-16 against Tampa. The series against Boston they were too injured to really compete and they had a lot of rookies in the lineup that season.

If they beat Chicago in 2012-13 I think they win the Cup that season and that seven-game series against Anaheim in round one was awesome to watch. Held Corey Perry to 0 goals in that series.

Chicago hasn't won a playoff series since 2014-15, so I guess they should blow it up?

 

[TheMule93]

Chicago hasn't won a playoff series since 2014-15, so I guess they should blow it up?

Once their elite defenseman retires with no replacement in sight, and their remaining two core forwards are in their mid 30s, sure

Nobody ever argued for the wings to rebuild/blow it up prior to Lidstrom retiring. You're arguing against a point nobody made.

 

[Claypool]

Once their elite defenseman retires with no replacement in sight, and their remaining two core forwards are in their mid 30s, sure

Duncan Keith and Brent Seabrook are no longer elite defensemen.

 

[Redder Winger]

Let's be real.
This team didn't suck after winning the cup.
But they stopped being truly elite sometime around the 2010.
Rafalski's knees went bad. Lidstrom wasn't the beast he was. Hossa was gone. Franzen never regained that pre-contract scoring hype. Cleary became a liability. Hank and Pavel could still be world beaters at times, but they also struggled with staying healthy.
That home-winning streak meant absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things.

Here's the Red Wings record since 2009-2010. Just wins and losses.
327 wins
301 losses.

Here's the record since 12-13
188 wins
204 losses

Let's look at the 7 seasons before 2010.
360 wins
183 losses
31 ties

The difference between the first 7 year span vs the second 7 year span is immense.

And yet to hear the local media's reporting, the Red Wings were still the class of the NHL.

All the were was just a good team.

And if you look at the record since 12-13, they can't even say that anymore.

They've won more games than they lost ONCE in five years.

This "magic feeling" has been gone a long time.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Once their elite defenseman retires with no replacement in sight, and their remaining two core forwards are in their mid 30s, sure

Nobody ever argued for the wings to rebuild/blow it up prior to Lidstrom retiring. You're arguing against a point nobody made.

No one of the points often made around here is they haven't been good since the cup finals loss. Lidstrom didn't retire then so they would disagree with your point.

I will continue to always say that 11-12 team was as good as the cup teams before the injuries. The 12-13 team was a legitimate cup contender as well.

 

[dragonballgtz]

I read that as the leadership is lacking. Blash called out the leadership after that embarrassing loss to VAN a couple weeks ago and rightfully so.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

Nashville series was when this team died. Since then it's basically been Weekend at Bernie's.

 

[Frk It]

No one of the points often made around here is they haven't been good since the cup finals loss. Lidstrom didn't retire then so they would disagree with your point.

I will continue to always say that 11-12 team was as good as the cup teams before the injuries. The 12-13 team was a legitimate cup contender as well.

HELL no was the 11-12 team as good as the 07-08 team. Dats and Z had 74 goals in 07-08 compared to 41 goals in 11-12. They were legitimate top 3 or top 5 players in league in the Cup season. Plus 07-08 Raffy was waaaay better than 11-12 Raffy. i don’t care about records, no way those teams are equal.

I’ll agree that’s it’s not that clear cut that the contending window closed in 09 after the loss to Pitt, but can’t agree with the rest at all.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

HELL no was the 11-12 team as good as the 07-08 team. Dats and Z had 74 goals in 07-08 compared to 41 goals in 11-12. They were legitimate top 3 or top 5 players in league in the Cup season. Plus 07-08 Raffy was waaaay better than 11-12 Raffy. i don’t care about records, no way those teams are equal.

I’ll agree that’s it’s not that clear cut that the contending window closed in 09 after the loss to Pitt, but can’t agree with the rest at all.

Rafalski retired the off-season before that.... The 11-12 team is the one that picked up Quincey to play #6 at the deadline for a first. Which a lot of people thought at the time had us as the deepest blueline in the NHL. Hudler, Franzen and Filppula were all exceptional that season. A bunch of guys really had high levels of play that year.

They were incredible at home and in a position to win the President's trophy and one Kesler slash later, Datsyuk and Lidstrom get dinged it just got totally derailed in February to the end of the season... I still think that team was winning that year if they could have gotten healthy for the playoffs. Had they never had big injury issues and got to play with the home ice they would have been near impossible to get that year. With home change Filppula-Zetterberg-Hudler were mauling people.

 

[Redder Winger]

No one of the points often made around here is they haven't been good since the cup finals loss. Lidstrom didn't retire then so they would disagree with your point.

I will continue to always say that 11-12 team was as good as the cup teams before the injuries. The 12-13 team was a legitimate cup contender as well.

Teams that lost in round 1 and 2 were legit cup contenders?

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Sorry but it is pretty embarrassing when people pretend the last time this team was super competitive was 08-09.... It is probably my least favorite thing done on this forum. Things might not have panned out but they still had lots of talent for several years after that and I find it disingenuous when people do it here.

11-12 Red Wings for instance own the all-time record for consecutive home wins in the entire history of the NHL and were exceptional for three periods night in and night out and were steamrolling their way to a Presidents Trophy before injuries completely ravaged the team in February.

They didn't get bad the second they weren't playing in the finals, the bounces just didn't go there way a lot after that and they have declined in talent gradually. But the jump off point wasn't nearly as soon as most around here like to push.

Ericsson has seen that decline and I think he is trying to speak to it, but it is hard to flat out say we don't have the necessary talent. They cannot overcome many mistakes as others are saying in this thread.

So, where exactly did I say that the Wings stopped being good after 08-09 ? My specific point was that the team has struggled with intra-game consistency since that time. Never once did I say that they were bad or lacked elite talent after that date. Hell, I didn't even try to assign an explanation for the inconsistency. In fact, I encouraged people not to use those past teams (which were still very talented) as a barometer for evaluating the effects of coaching on this team for that very reason.

The Wings were very talented and competitive after 08-09. They were not, however, the model of consistency within games. You are lying to yourself if you think that they were. They won a hell of a lot of hockey games, but they didn't win a hell of a lot of hockey games playing three great periods of hockey. They had a very, very bad habit of doing just enough to get by in regular season games. But hey, good teams with elite talent can do that. In the long run it probably didn't impact their fate, but I stand by my comments about not seeing the desperation that E is describing on a regular basis.

You don't need to rush to defend Zetterberg when people aren't criticizing him.

 

[Redder Winger]

Rafalski retired the off-season before that.... The 11-12 team is the one that picked up Quincey to play #6 at the deadline for a first. Which a lot of people thought at the time had us as the deepest blueline in the NHL. Hudler, Franzen and Filppula were all exceptional that season. A bunch of guys really had high levels of play that year.

They were incredible at home and in a position to win the President's trophy and one Kesler slash later, Datsyuk and Lidstrom get dinged it just got totally derailed in February to the end of the season... I still think that team was winning that year if they could have gotten healthy for the playoffs. Had they never had big injury issues and got to play with the home ice they would have been near impossible to get that year. With home change Filppula-Zetterberg-Hudler were mauling people.

Winning the cup is hard.
I don't see how you can take a first round loser and say they would have won if this and that.
Even with a second loser, that's a hard case to make.

You get 10 playoff wins, fine. You got more than half-way there. You're entitled to a little "if only this, or if only that."
Like Detroit in 07.

 

[Go Wings]

In all the time Ericsson has played in the NHL I have never ever seen him play with desperation. He takes his sweet f***ing time trying to do anything and cost this team more goals than any other player on it.

He is the last guy that should be talking about this as he is the worst player on the team and a guy that every fan would trade away for nothing.

 

[Winger98]

I don't agree that those later teams were as good as the cup teams, but I do agree with the point that those teams up until about 12/13 were stilll really good teams that got hit by some bad luck and misfortune. You can have a roster that should be or is a cup contender but have injuries or some other unforeseen event totally ruin your season. That's just the nature of sport.

I think the biggest problem was Holland too desperately trying to preserve the streak at the expense of any future planning.

Just sounds like he's talking about that feeling of a team where 90% of the roster is veterans or guys in their prime who are all experienced and know exactly what to do. Right now they're a team trying to find a new identity with guys like Larkin/Mantha/Frk/AA/XO/Jensen/etc getting bigger roles and finding their way. There's no Lidstrom, there's no Dats and Z up front who you know will get things done most of the time. Nothing strange about it.

Also it's sad that "articles" like this is what we see instead of focusing on the positives of seeing young players step up. Most people predicted us to be among the worst teams before the season, and we still could be. But if we aren't, it's only going to be because Mantha/Larkin/etc break out. I'll take that over a slight bump in % chance in the lottery.

Yeah, my main read of it is that the guys themselves just aren't as good as they once were. It was just a bizarrely worded quote, though, and with the recent leaks that Holland was doing his due diligence on Tippett, made me wonder if there isn't some boat rocking in the locker room.