Speculation: Red Wings Have Interest in Gusev

[A Few Good Males]

We have 3 of our 4 top-6 wing spots accounted for with Mantha, AA and Bertuzzi. So there is one top-6 spot open for: Zadina / Hirose, and to a lesser extent Svechnikov, Rasmussen and Veleno.

What I’m saying is that I’d much rather give Zadina top-6 minutes and PP time versus giving up assets and committing to Gusev for two years. Have to believe that Yzerman wants to create a program and culture preferential to internal promotion, similar to Tampa and Toronto.

Realistically, what’s the best case for signing Gusev? He produces at a Panarin-level, then in two-years he wants big money and term as a 29 year old?

 

[ShippinItDaily]

We have 3 of our 4 top-6 wing spots accounted for with Mantha, AA and Bertuzzi. So there is one top-6 spot open for: Zadina / Hirose, and to a lesser extent Svechnikov, Rasmussen and Veleno.

What I’m saying is that I’d much rather give Zadina top-6 minutes and PP time versus giving up assets and committing to Gusev for two years. Have to believe that Yzerman wants to create a program and culture preferential to internal promotion, similar to Tampa and Toronto.

Realistically, what’s the best case for signing Gusev? He produces at a Panarin-level, then in two-years he wants big money and term as a 29 year old?

I think this surplus winger argument is an imaginary problem. None of these guys being mentioned are superstars or anything close to it and are very unlikely to reach that level given their age and development thus far. Will Gusev be a superstar? That's unlikely also, but if he ends up being a top line winger then the Wings have added a very necessary piece to their build of what we all hope will be a team on the rise to contender status in the next few years.

As far as Zadina goes, he doesn't need top 6 minutes this year. If he earns them, then there should be no problem with him getting them with a player like Gusev in the picture. And he has a long way to go to proving that he deserves them. Just getting regular minutes with capable NHL players and PP time is plenty for his development this upcoming season.

 

[deca guard]

I think this surplus winger argument is an imaginary problem. None of these guys being mentioned are superstars or anything close to it and are very unlikely to reach that level given their age and development thus far. Will Gusev be a superstar? That's unlikely also, but if he ends up being a top line winger then the Wings have added a very necessary piece to their build of what we all hope will be a team on the rise to contender status in the next few years.

As far as Zadina goes, he doesn't need top 6 minutes this year. If he earns them, then there should be no problem with him getting them with a player like Gusev in the picture. And he has a long way to go to proving that he deserves them. Just getting regular minutes with capable NHL players and PP time is plenty for his development this upcoming season.

thing is you have to figure 19 and crew didnt see top 6 upside in gusev or would have paid that price

 

[ShelbyZ]

Realistically, what’s the best case for signing Gusev? He produces at a Panarin-level, then in two-years he wants big money and term as a 29 year old?

Trade him to Columbus to get Nyquist back?

 

[ShippinItDaily]

thing is you have to figure 19 and crew didnt see top 6 upside in gusev or would have paid that price

That's entirely possible and not unreasonable. I think there must be elements of that combined with Yzerman just not wanting to add anybody for the top of the lineup until he has had much more time to evaluate what he thinks he has in this team. Which is also very reasonable.

Another possibility is he had the chance to speak to Gusev about signing after a potential deal and didn't get anywhere on the terms or perhaps Gusev wasn't interested in playing in Detroit.

Very hard to know what happened for sure.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

I don't understand why people think Gusev wanted to come here. You gotta think he remembers who Yzerman is. They parted on not the best terms. The whole thing ended so badly Gusev thought the TB organization regarded him as a career AHLer.

 

[lomekian]

and personally im happy as long as were making progress towards building a contender no matter if our records weak . mean while during the years of keeping the streak going just barelly making playoffs while realizing our prospect pool was weak and getting nowhere , the idiotic rebuilding on the fly era , i wasnt happy at all .

Its one thing giving up futures for marginal games when you are, as we were then, a playoff or borderline playoff team with a number of players with proven playoff effectiveness. Quite another now when even with said marginal gains, it would take a lot of stars to align to even make it in.

 

[lomekian]

I feel like we say the top 10 is the strongest it’s been in a while nearly every year. 2017 was weak, but that was the narrative in both 2018 and 2019 IIRC.

Perhaps, but for me there are more guys who look like potential superstars than in the past 3-4 drafts. The top 4-6 are very exciting

 

[Retire91]

I would still rather have taken a shot at someone with superstar potential. Gusev led a professional league in points as a 27 year old. I would not concern myself over a logjam of prospects in comparison to that potential. I really never got the apprehension from Tampa on this guy. I am sure there is a story.

 

[A Few Good Males]

As far as Zadina goes, he doesn't need top 6 minutes this year. If he earns them, then there should be no problem with him getting them with a player like Gusev in the picture. And he has a long way to go to proving that he deserves them. Just getting regular minutes with capable NHL players and PP time is plenty for his development this upcoming season.

It seems that Steve Yzerman thinks he does and he has a pretty good track record of top-end forwards developing under his watch.

My question still stands: what would the best case scenario have been with signing Gusev? We are not anywhere close to contenders for the next two years.

 

[deca guard]

Its one thing giving up futures for marginal games when you are, as we were then, a playoff or borderline playoff team with a number of players with proven playoff effectiveness. Quite another now when even with said marginal gains, it would take a lot of stars to align to even make it in.

there was zero effort being made to 'rebuild on the fly' , it was just the same old lame drafting mode . holland invented a term for doing nothing . mean while we all sat here knowing we were headed for the basement . as i sat there my thought was trade aging vets with value for draft pix then sign ufa for zero assets in effort to bring in guys just as good or better than the vets you traded . while using the garnered draft pix to rebuild .

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

there was zero effort being made to 'rebuild on the fly' , it was just the same old lame drafting mode . holland invented a term for doing nothing . mean while we all sat here knowing we were headed for the basement . as i sat there my thought was trade aging vets with value for draft pix then sign ufa for zero assets in effort to bring in guys just as good or better than the vets you traded . while using the garnered draft pix to rebuild .

Holland rebuilt on the fly after the first lockout.

It takes good fortune and good management. The Wings had that in 2002-2008 (sans Jiri Fischer, of course). They did not have it in 2010-2018.

If the Wings had ANY of their 2011 defensive prospectts come remotely close to measuring up to their prospect profile, they wouldn't have dropped as bad as they did.
They struck out big time in the draft from about 2006-2012.

They had bad luck and they gave out bad contracts which was followed by worse luck that led to worse contracts.

2012 FA was set to be a high point for them. Then Suter played them to get $98M from Minnesota and because of that, they got sent into scramble mode to find ANY D. July 4th, 2012 was the day that killed the Detroit Red Wings. They had the dead cat bounce in 13 and 14, but the writing, as it turns out, was on the wall after they missed Suter and signed Colaiacovo.

 

[deca guard]

Holland rebuilt on the fly after the first lockout.

It takes good fortune and good management. The Wings had that in 2002-2008 (sans Jiri Fischer, of course). They did not have it in 2010-2018.

If the Wings had ANY of their 2011 defensive prospectts come remotely close to measuring up to their prospect profile, they wouldn't have dropped as bad as they did.
They struck out big time in the draft from about 2006-2012.

They had bad luck and they gave out bad contracts which was followed by worse luck that led to worse contracts.

2012 FA was set to be a high point for them. Then Suter played them to get $98M from Minnesota and because of that, they got sent into scramble mode to find ANY D. July 4th, 2012 was the day that killed the Detroit Red Wings. They had the dead cat bounce in 13 and 14, but the writing, as it turns out, was on the wall after they missed Suter and signed Colaiacovo.

nobody plays me on ufa market . 7/1 at midnight accept my offer or its off table and ide have moved on to a different target . and to have started a rebuild holland had to trade vet guys for pix then sign ufa but he didnt , instead giving bad contracts out which prevented us from signing better ufa down the road . holland was totally lost for ages . though i speculate part of the problem was ilitch loyaly outlook preventing holland from firing guys that werent getting results like nill and howe , if they would have been replaced by smarter personnel we wouldnt have got so weak .

 

[obey86]

We have 3 of our 4 top-6 wing spots accounted for with Mantha, AA and Bertuzzi. So there is one top-6 spot open for: Zadina / Hirose, and to a lesser extent Svechnikov, Rasmussen and Veleno.

What I’m saying is that I’d much rather give Zadina top-6 minutes and PP time versus giving up assets and committing to Gusev for two years. Have to believe that Yzerman wants to create a program and culture preferential to internal promotion, similar to Tampa and Toronto.

Realistically, what’s the best case for signing Gusev? He produces at a Panarin-level, then in two-years he wants big money and term as a 29 year old?

I'd say best case scenario is Gusev puts up 70-80 points ala Panarin and then you trade him for much more than you acquired him for. Or you hold onto him for two seasons while continuing to rebuild, and then re-sign him to a longer term contract just as the rebuild is ending and the team is on the upswing again - allowing you to potentially trade AA/Mantha to fill other team team needs.

 

[Retire91]

The opportunity to land someone that has the potential to make an impact like Panarin isn't a small move. If he lights it up you either make them part of the core or he has extreme trade value, if he doesn't reach the potential you are just out a couple picks. If it takes 5 years for the core to come together he would still only be 32 sheesh. Not like he can't play a role.

This isn't a holland trade like throwing picks at Legwand, its a player in their prime with the potential for high-end elite talent something the wings are lacking in a big way. If he was on the market for that cheep the wings should have been in play.

 

[ShelbyZ]

It seems that Steve Yzerman thinks he does and he has a pretty good track record of top-end forwards developing under his watch.

My question still stands: what would the best case scenario have been with signing Gusev? We are not anywhere close to contenders for the next two years.

In reality, he'd be an asset that could provide a potential high reward in a couple ways

A. He clicks with another forward on the team, blows up like Panarin and moves the rebuild up the ladder a couple rungs. Then he sticks around and gives the Red Wings another elite talent to build around.
B. He comes in motivated to show he belongs in the NHL, blows up like Panarin and then wants to cash in on the UFA market like Panarin. The Red Wings could then get a solid return of picks/prospects for him next summer or at the 2021 deadline to further the rebuild.

Although, I do think that would be more worthwhile if Gusev was coming in as a UFA (ala Brunner) or for a more negligible trade package than something that might end up being better picks than what the Red Wings got for a proven commodity in Nyquist....

I think given where the Red Wings are at in their rebuild, trading a 2nd and 3rd for an unknown that's going to need to either boom or bust in a short time isn't worth the risk.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

The opportunity to land someone that has the potential to make an impact like Panarin isn't a small move. If he lights it up you either make them part of the core or he has extreme trade value, if he doesn't reach the potential you are just out a couple picks. If it takes 5 years for the core to come together he would still only be 32 sheesh. Not like he can't play a role.

This isn't a holland trade like throwing picks at Legwand, its a player in their prime with the potential for high-end elite talent something the wings are lacking in a big way. If he was on the market for that cheep the wings should have been in play.

He wasn't in play. He was interested in New York or Miami.

Just like in reality you don't trade Datsyuk and Zetterberg when they have no desire to leave. Yes that works in EA Sports but no team fires out cup winning core pieces with borderline jersey retirement credentials in the manner you have described. The NHLPA would have noticed and not in a good way moving forward. It is the reason Yzerman has a spot for Kronwall too. Actually being in the business and understanding the human elements of it are different than examining it with a super fan hat on without a ton of understanding of the process.

Spinning off assets in the manner described by posters around here isn't even a realistic option or plausible within the construct of the league a lot of times in terms of what is presented. It is the reason with the same pieces Yzerman is also moving methodically and waiting to strike. You know functioning on the same exact plan Holland shared on locker room clear out day. It turns out what you have and who you work for impacts the way guys proceed. Luckily I do think we are approaching a more aggressive phase shortly. Looking forward to that, but Yzerman is taking a few months of the season to evaluate from the looks of things.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

nobody plays me on ufa market . 7/1 at midnight accept my offer or its off table and ide have moved on to a different target . and to have started a rebuild holland had to trade vet guys for pix then sign ufa but he didnt , instead giving bad contracts out which prevented us from signing better ufa down the road . holland was totally lost for ages . though i speculate part of the problem was ilitch loyaly outlook preventing holland from firing guys that werent getting results like nill and howe , if they would have been replaced by smarter personnel we wouldnt have got so weak .

I mean, I understand this one. The Wings HAD Suter. Ask Ricelund about that.

They had him and then Parise kept texting him. It was something that Detroit was DAMN close on landing him but the allure of Minnesota, playing with his best buddy, and being a closer driving distance to home won out.

Suter was one of the few guys that I'd have held out and done exactly what Detroit did. He was THE top pairing D on the market. He might be the best UFA that had hit the market in a generation and that will hit the market for a generation. Tell me the Wings with Suter in 13 don't beat Chicago in round 2. They almost did it with Kronwall and a bunch of knuckleheads. And hell, Suter at like 7-7.5M per? You could even go in and trade some Nyquist/Tatar/Kindl level guys before their value cratered and landed a guy like Bouwmeester.

Chasing Suter was way beyond worth the risk. I think the Wings don't collapse into the trainwreck they became if that contract gets signed. Or if they do, they have another Cup to their name.

 

[Hatter of the Beach]

It seems that Steve Yzerman thinks he does and he has a pretty good track record of top-end forwards developing under his watch.

My question still stands: what would the best case scenario have been with signing Gusev? We are not anywhere close to contenders for the next two years.

Having a Panarin level player would net us two firsts during the 2nd year’s tdl. Him turning into a Nyquist player would get us likely a 2nd and 3rd if not more. Would he have been as good as either? Maybe, maybe not. But to act like there aren’t some potential dynamite scenarios is just overdone cynicism.

I agree that people are making a lot of assumptions about what Yzerman’s capabilities were here (maybe Gusev hates him, not want to live in Mi, etc), but good players on decent contracts always have value to a team, even one not in win now mode

 

[A Few Good Males]

Having a Panarin level player would net us two firsts during the 2nd year’s tdl. Him turning into a Nyquist player would get us likely a 2nd and 3rd if not more. Would he have been as good as either? Maybe, maybe not. But to act like there aren’t some potential dynamite scenarios is just overdone cynicism.

I agree that people are making a lot of assumptions about what Yzerman’s capabilities were here (maybe Gusev hates him, not want to live in Mi, etc), but good players on decent contracts always have value to a team, even one not in win now mode

I never suggested there weren’t potential dynamite scenarios. I was asking what people thought the realistic best case was lol apologies if it came off as cynical

 

[Retire91]

That is kind the thing about Gusev you are just trading for rights he has to want to sign lol. If he has no interest in signing the deal is DOA unless it's like a 1 year prove it and then go to UFA arrangement. Gusev's input has to be accounted for and Gusev and Yzerman have history. I don't know if its necessarily bad history but it is history none the less

 

[Killerjas]

The next Shipaychov

Kidding, this guy is good.