Red Wings Grades 2020-21 (Really only 21, I guess)

SoupGuru

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May 12, 2007
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Don't know how a team that finished that far out of the playoffs has so many As. I can see the argument for Vrana who was here for all of three weeks. I can't see it for anyone else. Our leading scorer had 26 points and was a -18. Our goalies were, statistically, slightly below average. Now, they played fantastically compared to the garbage we've seen in prior years, but still average at best.

By these grades everyone is giving, we'd have a bubble or average team. We pretty clearly did not have that.
Depends on if you're grading on expectations or not. I fully expected this team to be terrible. And they were. But it made the bright spots seem extra bright.
 

jaster

Unregistered User
Jun 8, 2007
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Wow, that's harsh dude, and I don't even like Cholo. Bowey has the lowest hockey IQ of any D I've seen play a full season. Cholo was not that bad, he doesn't chase the puck like Bowey.

I had really low expectations, so he did better than I expected which was Djoos level D. There's a kid that should be let go. He has no business playing D.

Totally agree on Bowey, so my eval of Cholo could indeed be considered harsh, although I don't think he's quite as bad as Bowey. He's just reminding me of him due to similar strengths (which are few) and weaknesses. Low panic threshold in his own zone, bumbles the puck a ton when he's being forechecked, a soft defender who gets lost easily, and while he skates well and is always carrying the tag of "offensive defenseman," never actually shows he's anything more than an underwhelming PP option who only threatens 20 points in a full season.

I can't really stand these types of guys. Guys who suck at so many things, but skate well and ride that "offensive dman" title while never providing an amount of offense that moves the needle. It's what I'm afraid Wallinder will be too. If he can really tune in his game before reaching Detroit, I'll be thrilled, but if he doesn't and just tracks along the Bowey/Cholo trajectory.... blech.
 
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Oddbob

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Jan 21, 2016
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I keep saying this, Cholo should be converted to a winger. Dude has some offensive instincts that I think would be better served if he doesn't have to worry about being a defenseman first.

I wouldn't mind that. I always thought Nick Jensen also would make a better winger as he liked to skate into the offensive zone quite a bit. However, I still Cholo has good enough offensive instincts IF (key) we can get some actual finishers on our team. Hard for any more pass oriented player to make plays when no one seems like they can put the puck in the net.
 

WingsMJN2965

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Oct 13, 2017
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Zadina’s 21. He’s played just about a full regular season in his career - 15G 22A 37P (.43 PPG) in his first 86 games on some god awful teams. That’s really not bad. He has plenty of time to improve.

Kakko - 19G 21A 40P in 114 GP (.35 PPG)
Hughes - 18G 34A 52P in 116 GP (.45 PPG)
Lafreniere - 12G 9A 21P in 56 GP (.38 PPG)

Remember, MBH shits on Zadina regularly and then went into that Kakko trade thread and was apologetic for his subpar performance and urged people to be patient.
 

Oddbob

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Jan 21, 2016
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Totally agree on Bowey, so my eval of Cholo could indeed be considered harsh, although I don't think he's quite as bad as Bowey. He's just reminding me of him due to similar strengths (which are few) and weaknesses. Low panic threshold in his own zone, bumbles the puck a ton when he's being forechecked, a soft defender who gets lost easily, and while he skates well and is always carrying the tag of "offensive defenseman," never actually shows he's anything more than an underwhelming PP option who only threatens 20 points in a full season.

I can't really stand these types of guys. Guys who suck at so many things, but skate well and ride that "offensive dman" title while never providing an amount of offense that moves the needle. It's what I'm afraid Wallinder will be too. If he can really tune in his game before reaching Detroit, I'll be thrilled, but if he doesn't and just tracks along the Bowey/Cholo trajectory.... blech.

Difference is, Bowey was a train wreck in his own end, and played like he had a grenade blade with the puck in our zone. Cholo looked markedly improved in his own end from the previous 2 seasons, while offensively every one minus 1 or 2, had terrible years. Part of it is lack of talent, and part of it is style we are forced to play to stay in games with this sucky team.
 

Oddbob

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Jan 21, 2016
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Remember, MBH shits on Zadina regularly and then went into that Kakko trade thread and was apologetic for his subpar performance and urged people to be patient.

Zadina's play away from the puck was very good in my opinion, and I never thought that was something he would be good at. However I will admit to being disappointed that he didn't finish more plays with pts. The one thing I think he struggles with offensively is not going to open areas quick enough and getting into sniping positions. He should watch video of Brett Hull who was great at subtlety getting into an open space. Not comparing them style wise, just that if Zadina can get open more and closer to the net, the puck will start to go in as he has a pretty good shot when he gets into good spots.
 

Oddbob

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Jan 21, 2016
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Don't know how a team that finished that far out of the playoffs has so many As. I can see the argument for Vrana who was here for all of three weeks. I can't see it for anyone else. Our leading scorer had 26 points and was a -18. Our goalies were, statistically, slightly below average. Now, they played fantastically compared to the garbage we've seen in prior years, but still average at best.

By these grades everyone is giving, we'd have a bubble or average team. We pretty clearly did not have that.

To be honest, our goaltending was fantastic in the last 2/3rds of the year, and the stats they put up are great for how many shots and chances we give up. On a bottom tier team, a .910 team save percentage is actually pretty good, especially if you go look at what other bottom teams put up this year and other years.

This year:

LA .910 (Tied with us)
Vancouver .907
ARI .906
Chicago .906
Columbus .904
Calgary .903
Buffalo .902
ANA .901
Ottawa .900
NJ .898
SJ .896
Philly .883 (somehow) YIKES
 
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Lil Sebastian Cossa

Opinions are share are my own personal opinions.
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To be honest, our goaltending was fantastic in the last 2/3rds of the year, and the stats they put up are great for how many shots and chances we give up. On a bottom tier team, a .910 team save percentage is actually pretty good, especially if you go look at what other bottom teams put up this year and other years.

This year:

LA .910 (Tied with us)
Vancouver .907
ARI .906
Chicago .906
Columbus .904
Calgary .903
Buffalo .902
ANA .901
Ottawa .900
NJ .898
SJ .896
Philly .883 (somehow) YIKES

Yeah, I can definitely get behind great grade for Bernier (A- or B+) and probably a B- for Greiss (only because Greiss was so bad in the middle of the year.)
19-20 Bernier had a much better year because his stats were remotely close to this year and he faced on the order of 3-4x as many high quality chances.
 

TheClap

Registered User
Jul 20, 2014
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The grades MBH posted are useless, and as always try to atomize things to stat lines without context. His hate for Zadina is front and center. He doesn't put anything into a grander context and only grades on personal bias.

Or your infatuation with Zadina is front and center and clouding your judgement.
A C- is just below average. That is exactly how Zadina played this year relative to expectations.
 

Shaman464

No u
May 1, 2009
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Or your infatuation with Zadina is front and center and clouding your judgement.
A C- is just below average. That is exactly how Zadina played this year relative to expectations.

The grade isn't the issue per se. I would give him a C because the offense in general was beyond terrible and he was no exception, but other parts of his games showed improvement. It was MBH's commentary on him that was a normal anti-Zadina hit job.
 

Fil Larkmanthanasiou

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Feb 10, 2018
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Dekeyser has started to looked a lot more like he used to near the end of the season and I think that is in part why they finished stronger.
I'd give Smith a B- Was usually the most physical Red Wing in games that I watched and as far as production goes, he wasn't afforded a whole lotta time and I wouldn't be surprised if he had better per minute production than Zadina
Hard to believe that Hronek couldn't pot one with a goalie in the net. Scoring goals has always been a forte for him.
I think a youth movement should be in order now and even though I think it would be nice to get a top pick in the 22 draft, I hope that they can Blashill more than anything.
 

GMR

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Jul 27, 2013
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Remember, MBH shits on Zadina regularly and then went into that Kakko trade thread and was apologetic for his subpar performance and urged people to be patient.
Kakko is a bust. Guy played with adults before coming to the NHL. He's only 20 but everyone expected way more. LaFreniere and Hughes are still under 20. Hughes easily improved from last season. I think both are probably safe picks at this point.

Zadina is only 21 but he didn't look to improve much offensively from last season. After next season, we'll be able to make a better call on him. Right now, a C is a fair grade.

Several years ago, it was asked what Detroit needed to be competitive around 2021. Everyone agreed that Larkin and Mantha had to play at an All-Star level, with Zadina, Svechnikov, and Rasmussen to be important contributors also. Unfortunately, none of that has happened.
 

Rzombo4 prez

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May 17, 2012
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The grade isn't the issue per se. I would give him a C because the offense in general was beyond terrible and he was no exception, but other parts of his games showed improvement. It was MBH's commentary on him that was a normal anti-Zadina hit job.

Absolutely correct. Zadina today is a much better player than Zadina of a year ago, both with and without the puck.
 
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Lil Sebastian Cossa

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I don't know what you gain by doing grades on a curve here. Like, "I thought Frans Nielsen was going to trip on his skate laces and sniff glue on the ice... he actually skated around a little bit, C-." It just feels like so many of these grades are just akin to putting the letters in a salt shaker and give that thing a good ol' shake.

Valterri Filppula was worthless this year. Without 4 points in two games against a team who had wholly surrendered in CBJ... He would have had 11 points in 36 games.
 
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jaster

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Jun 8, 2007
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I don't know what you gain by doing grades on a curve here. Like, "I thought Frans Nielsen was going to trip on his skate laces and sniff glue on the ice... he actually skated around a little bit, C-." It just feels like so many of these grades are just akin to putting the letters in a salt shaker and give that thing a good ol' shake.

Valterri Filppula was worthless this year. Without 4 points in two games against a team who had wholly surrendered in CBJ... He would have had 11 points in 36 games.

The criteria for these lists is rarely made clear, so then people use their own criteria which leads to people arguing not over how exactly a player performed but over random letters being assigned. It's kind of exhausting to watch lol.
 
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14ari13

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Oct 19, 2006
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I don't know what you gain by doing grades on a curve here. Like, "I thought Frans Nielsen was going to trip on his skate laces and sniff glue on the ice... he actually skated around a little bit, C-." It just feels like so many of these grades are just akin to putting the letters in a salt shaker and give that thing a good ol' shake.

Valterri Filppula was worthless this year. Without 4 points in two games against a team who had wholly surrendered in CBJ... He would have had 11 points in 36 games.
I do not think it is a big deal or difference. Do you have any player in particular?
I see that there is some disagreement about Zadina, but he can't get an A, so a B would be just one grade above the C. That is not a big deal.
Nielsen is another player where people disagree a bit, but he was the worst player on the team. I doubt there is anyone except maybe Djoos being bad as him, but Djoos was very good on PP, so ...
 

jaster

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Jun 8, 2007
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Nielsen is another player where people disagree a bit, but he was the worst player on the team. I doubt there is anyone except maybe Djoos being bad as him, but Djoos was very good on PP, so ...

Brome.

And Biega.
 
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MBH

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Jul 20, 2019
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The grade isn't the issue per se. I would give him a C because the offense in general was beyond terrible and he was no exception, but other parts of his games showed improvement. It was MBH's commentary on him that was a normal anti-Zadina hit job.

There was not hit job.
Any criticism of Zadina is a hit job to you.

Right now, you could play Svechnikov in Zadina's role and get more production.
And you think Svechnikov is a worthless piece of trash.
 
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Gniwder

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Oct 12, 2009
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I keep saying this, Cholo should be converted to a winger. Dude has some offensive instincts that I think would be better served if he doesn't have to worry about being a defenseman first.
If there was a player to convert, it was Bowey. He could actually cycle the puck and shoot and hit people. He just couldn't play defense, lol. Not to mention he skated better forwards than backwards.

I'd also convert Djoos before Cholo.

I'm hoping Stevie signs Staal and a free agent like Martinez. Cholo could stick around as insurance in case DDK's back gives out. Obviously still need a #1 LHD, but hopefully we luck out in the draft.
 
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Winger98

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Feb 27, 2002
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What do we lose playing cholowski next year? Is anyone expecting this team to be good? Sign one LD, best you can, to play top4 and likely pair with Seider. If we sign a second LD find a way to cut Dekesyer loose.

Brome.

And Biega.

Biega is awful. I'm not sure what to make of Brome. I don't think he was good but I'm not sure he was bad. He went out there, he took up space, he was clearly counted as one of the wings by the refs...and that's about as much as I can remember of him. He existed.
 

Big Poppa Puck

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Dec 8, 2009
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A level:

Vrana - Was only here for a few weeks but was our best player during that span.
Erne - went from "Why did we bring him back?" to one of our better players this year.

B level:

Fabbri - was probably going to be our leading scorer had he not gotten hurt.
Glendening - Go petty much what you'd expect from him.
Ryan - I'd bring him back on another one year deal.
Bernier - kept us in a lot of games.

C level (average):

Everyone else.

D level:

Djoos - decent on the PP which prevents this from being a F.
Filppula - he's done.
Brome - only reason he's not a F is because early in the year he was noticeable flying around, hustling out there.

F:

Nielsen - he's more washed than Filppula.
Biega - Djoos without the offense.
 
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14ari13

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Oct 19, 2006
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Brome.

And Biega.

I gave Brome F, Nielsen E, Biega D. Brome is like Perlinni last year. They show you something here and there, but but nothing good enough. They both got a good chance.
Nielsen is an experienced player, he knows how to make up for the mistakes he makes, but he makes 2 mistakes every shift imho.

There was not hit job.
Any criticism of Zadina is a hit job to you.

Right now, you could play Svechnikov in Zadina's role and get more production.
And you think Svechnikov is a worthless piece of trash.
Definitely, Svechnikov would produce more. Why Yzerman doesn't want to give him a chance is a riddle to me.
 

Gniwder

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Oct 12, 2009
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Bellingham, WA
Definitely, Svechnikov would produce more. Why Yzerman doesn't want to give him a chance is a riddle to me.
Stevie's watching Svech from the box and thinking to himself, "WTF, I can still skate faster than that." LOL. Svech is slow and let's not act like he was lighting up the AHL which is obviously a slower league.

Zadina has done nothing to impress me at all. He's beginning to look like Helm without speed. (Obvious hyperbole, but I thought it was funny.)
 

14ari13

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Oct 19, 2006
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Stevie's watching Svech from the box and thinking to himself, "WTF, I can still skate faster than that." LOL. Svech is slow and let's not act like he was lighting up the AHL which is obviously a slower league.

Zadina has done nothing to impress me at all. He's beginning to look like Helm without speed. (Obvious hyperbole, but I thought it was funny.)
Then he should think a little bit out of the box.
That rookie from Dallas stars was not a good skater, but he improved his skating and is doing great.
Svechnikov has the talent and the size, he was also very competitive.
 

ArGarBarGar

What do we want!? Unfair!
Sep 8, 2008
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I don't think there is any reason to get huffy because someone gave a young player a bad grade in a weird COVID season.

Zadina can and should be better offensively. There are things to like, and I hope that with a full training camp and an actual full regular season he will be able to get into a groove and develop more.
 

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