GDT: red wings @ CAPITALS

[The Zetterberg Era]

I think it's safe to say he is our best offensive player. So glad we didn't get rid of him.

Glad he started applying himself. He still doesn't have this honor over Larkin as he hasn't driven it as much shift over shift offensively and is still leveraged ideally more often. However, it is encouraging to see AA being a top 3 player on this team. He has always had this ability. I am glad in my opinion Larkin's being the focal leader seems to have gotten more buy-in from close off-ice friends Mantha and AA. It is a good development for the rest of the team.

Nobody was trading AA for crap value though. People wanted him moved for defensive help, fearing he was never going to buy-in around here.

You want an apology for people wanting to trade AA, I have seen that style in your posts a lot. Great a group of people will get right on that, as soon as you and several other admit he was dogging it and leaving a ton on the ice the last few years. I get that it is a part of development but it was tough to buy-in that he turned a corner last year or looked likely to. I am all on board with an engaged version of AA playing. That has been the gripe since day one. Since he has moved out to the wing full-time this year I have loved his game and said it often this year. 72 can stay if he plays like this for 60+ games a year and not 15 while demanding more ice time. He is doing the right things, this is the version of him a ton of his detractors have said exists, this is why a lot of us were hard on him... Hard to apologize for something you have been asking for coming true, AA's a really good hockey player when he engages for most of the game.

 

[Syckle78]

Like a baiting reply?

No just pointing out the obvious. Don't care if you reply or not. Just tired of the obnoxious posts on here that do nothing but try to start a fight. Especially when it's flat out making crap up.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Glad he started applying himself. He still doesn't have this honor over Larkin as he hasn't driven it as much shift over shift offensively and is still leveraged ideally more often. However, it is encouraging to see AA being a top 3 player on this team. He has always had this ability. I am glad in my opinion Larkin's being the focal leader seems to have gotten more buy-in from close off-ice friends Mantha and AA. It is a good development for the rest of the team.

Nobody was trading AA for crap value though. People wanted him moved for defensive help, fearing he was never going to buy-in around here.

You want an apology for people wanting to trade AA, I have seen that style in your posts a lot. Great a group of people will get right on that, as soon as you and several other admit he was dogging it and leaving a ton on the ice the last few years. I get that it is a part of development but it was tough to buy-in that he turned a corner last year or looked likely to. I am all on board with an engaged version of AA playing. That has been the gripe since day one. Since he has moved out to the wing full-time this year I have loved his game and said it often this year. 72 can stay if he plays like this for 60+ games a year and not 15 while demanding more ice time. He is doing the right things, this is the version of him a ton of his detractors have said exists, this is why a lot of us were hard on him... Hard to apologize for something you have been asking for coming true, AA's a really good hockey player when he engages all night long.

Let's not forget AA is only 24 years old and a 4th round pick and leads the team in goals! He received way too much criticism on here. He is watched with a magnifying glass. I'm not doubting he has improved but if the rest of the team is/was analyzed to the degree that he was and the media covered this as well Holland would probably "look over his shoulder"

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

No just pointing out the obvious. Don't care if you reply or not. Just tired of the obnoxious posts on here that do nothing but try to start a fight. Especially when it's flat out making crap up.

Not true. People have said if Karlsson got here Larkin would still be the captain. Why is he above criticism? He is our best player but to pretend he is a true 1c should be looked at as the next Z and a forgone conclusion to be the next captain is insane. He has to get A LOT better. At this level if he is our best player we aren't going anywhere and like someone else said he has been INVISIBLE the past week. If you want to crap on AA for 2 seasons you cant ignore when Larkin isn't producing too.

 

[Flowah]

If you want to crap on AA for 2 seasons you cant ignore when Larkin isn't producing too.

The problem is you are 100% not consistent in your analysis of these players.

You cite AA's age. What about Larkin who is younger?

You cite Larkin's production. He's producing and has produced better than AA at all times.

Larkin's everything is better. He can center a line. He can and does handle tougher matchups, as a center. He has better possession metrics. And again he's younger to boot.

This is coming from someone who only ~1.5 years ago said AA could quite easily be a better player than Larkin. Who called AA Datsyuk-lite. He's got all the skills and tools in the world. But Larkin's hard work has put him clearly ahead. He backchecks full on every single shift. He's tenacious on the forecheck. When he goes for a takeaway his feet never stop moving. AA gets close and glides and reaches out with his stick. If he kept skating for a couple more seconds he could just take the puck but he doesn't do that.

Larkin's work ethic inside AA's body = elite 1C. But that's not what we have. We'll have to settle for a pretty good top6 winger. Which I will be the first to tell anyone is a goddamn steal in the 4th round. But it's still massively disappointing when you see his enormous potential to be more than that.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Let's not forget AA is only 24 years old and a 4th round pick. He received way too much criticism on here. He is watched with a magnifying glass. I'm not doubting he has improved but if the rest of the team is/was analyzed to the degree that he was and the media covered this as well Holland would probably "look over his shoulder"

Mantha just turned 24 as well and got raked over the coals for his start. He has been a ton better lately as well. But that does sort of come with the territory. I would argue the super friends and the market he has played in helped AA get sheltered from some criticism he would have got in a different market. A guy demanding more ice-time while not working hard enough would have been a bigger story in Toronto for instance.

When you reach the NHL level, if you don't engage in the proceedings it will lead to criticism. Really because effort isn't a ton to ask when 6 and 7 figure salaries are being earned. AA has great potential, that is why he was under the microscope. It is the reason Mantha is under a microscope. It is the reason in a few years Cholowski and Rasmussen will be under microscopes. We need these guys to be good, for them not to be means that much longer in the rebuild. I am hopeful AA can keep this level of his game going for the most part, I understand there will be off nights, that is the nature. But he has showed me the player I thought he could be and for a significant stretch. Really happy with his game, if we could get the next step out of Mantha and he has been better all of a sudden we have 3 pieces up front we are confident in as difference makers as we move more youth on the roster moving forward and that is a good thing.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Not true. People have said if Karlsson got here Larkin would still be the captain. Why is he above criticism? He is our best player but to pretend he is a true 1c should be looked at as the next Z and a forgone conclusion to be the next captain is insane. He has to get A LOT better. At this level if he is our best player we aren't going anywhere and like someone else said he has been INVISIBLE the past week. If you want to crap on AA for 2 seasons you cant ignore when Larkin isn't producing too.

Larkin has been a leader at every level. He organized the entire USA program getting together this summer. Larkin is the next captain in Detroit, he is if Karlsson comes. It is who he has always been as a player. It is why Bobby Mac and Pierre McGuire said on draft night this guy is a future captain of a team. We have always known this part of Larkin's makeup should payoff. It actually is a part of what has driven him to be a better player, he owns the team results. He operates in a captain way and there is no better logical option for the Wings than a local kid with this makeup.

Yzerman's taking over or whatever comes next isn't likely to be different on Larkin. Heck drop Jack Hughes on the team, it is still going to be Larkin with a C. Look no further than his ability to get total buy-in from Mantha and AA after the difficult start as part of the testament to his leadership in my opinion. Larkin is more than we could have hoped for, he is the ceiling of his draft night and he just might be a lot more talented soon because of that work ethic.

I mean things can change, but at this point I am sort of wondering if we will make this announcement in season, it is that apparent we are Dylan Larkin's team moving forward. To me this is a positive development, I think his makeup will help this rebuild significantly. His will to improve and to win are impressive, they are distinctive even among a group of pro athletes that share that trait. It is a part of what makes him a leader at every stop on the way.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

On here Larkin= McDavid. And if we got Karlsson he would/should still be captain lol.

No one here in their right mind thinks Larkin = McDavid.

And if we got Karlsson I would still be inclined to make Larkin captain. Not because I think he's more talented. Captain doesn't always have to be your best player. But I think Karlsson would excel more without the weight of the 'C' and of the guys we've got right now I think Larkin has shown a great work ethic and leadership for this young team.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Larkin has been a leader at every level. He organized the entire USA program getting together this summer. Larkin is the next captain in Detroit, he is if Karlsson comes. It is who he has always been as a player. It is why Bobby Mac and Pierre McGuire said on draft night this guy is a future captain of a team. We have always known this part of Larkin's makeup should payoff. It actually is a part of what has driven him to be a better player, he owns the team results. He operates in a captain way and there is no better logical option for the Wings than a local kid with this makeup.

Yzerman's taking over or whatever comes next isn't likely to be different on Larkin. Heck drop Jack Hughes on the team, it is still going to be Larkin with a C. Look no further than his ability to get total buy-in from Mantha and AA after the difficult start as part of the testament to his leadership in my opinion. Larkin is more than we could have hoped for, he is the ceiling of his draft night and he just might be a lot more talented soon because of that work ethic.

I mean things can change, but at this point I am sort of wondering if we will make this announcement in season, it is that apparent we are Dylan Larkin's team moving forward. To me this is a positive development, I think his makeup will help this rebuild significantly. His will to improve and to win are impressive, they are distinctive even among a group of pro athletes that share that trait. It is a part of what makes him a leader at every stop on the way.

I think Jack Hughes would eventually take the C from Larkin like Pavelski took it from Thorton if he came here.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

No one here in their right mind thinks Larkin = McDavid.

And if we got Karlsson I would still be inclined to make Larkin captain. Not because I think he's more talented. Captain doesn't always have to be your best player. But I think Karlsson would excel more without the weight of the 'C' and of the guys we've got right now I think Larkin has shown a great work ethic and leadership for this young team.

Someone said even if we got McDavid Larkin would be the captain. I don't make up shit go look it up.

 

[Syckle78]

Someone said even if we got McDavid Larkin would be the captain. I don't make up **** go look it up.

That's not saying Larkin is McDavid and it's definitely not what you said in your original shit post. And even if one person said that means the entire board views it that way?

 

[Syckle78]

On here Larkin= McDavid. And if we got Karlsson he would/should still be captain lol.

There's 590k posts on this sub. Show us one post of someone claiming Larkin = McDavid. We'll all wait.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Someone said even if we got McDavid Larkin would be the captain. I don't make up **** go look it up.

Here's the post I'm assuming you're referring to.

Larkin is going to be our next captain no matter barring Yzerman, Lidstrom, or Zetterberg coming out of retirement.

Karlsson, Crosby, McDavid could come here and Larkin would still be the next captain

So one person says that Larkin will be the captain even if those players come here. That's not saying Larkin = McDavid. And it's a long ways away from the broad statement that Larkin = McDavid around here.

You're railing against something no one has ever said.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Here's the post I'm assuming you're referring to.



So one person says that Larkin will be the captain even if those players come here. That's not saying Larkin = McDavid. And it's a long ways away from the broad statement that Larkin = McDavid around here.

You're railing against something no one has ever said.

Sorry its actually saying Larkin is BETTER than them. Thanks for strengthening my point bro!How would Larkin be captain over 3 guaranteed HOF players? What has ever led a team to? Has he won anything on any level?

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Sorry its actually saying Larkin is BETTER than them. Thanks for strengthening my point bro!How would Larkin be captain over 3 guaranteed HOF players? What has ever led a team to? Has he won anything on any level?

I'm not sure what your deal is with Larkin but no, it's actually not doing that. That's your interpretation.

As I said, the best player on the team is not always the captain. And it's all a hypothetical anyway.

The fact of the matter is that no one has said that Larkin=McDavid. You're getting your knickers in a twist over nothing.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

I'm not sure what your deal is with Larkin but no, it's actually not doing that. That's your interpretation.

As I said, the best player on the team is not always the captain. And it's all a hypothetical anyway.

The fact of the matter is that no one has said that Larkin=McDavid. You're getting your knickers in a twist over nothing.

I like Larkin. He is our best player and I like his growth this season. THAT SAID he is NOT above criticism and he needs to be held accountable for subpar play. Just like everyone wants to crucify AA if he "doesn't give effort" which is completely subjective to gauge. The same should be for EVERYONE on the team NO EXCEPTIONS!!

 

[theYman]

Cant wait for the Larkin vs Eichel matchup too.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Sorry its actually saying Larkin is BETTER than them. Thanks for strengthening my point bro!How would Larkin be captain over 3 guaranteed HOF players? What has ever led a team to? Has he won anything on any level?

No, it means that the team would want them to be captain.

If the Wings had drafted McDavid and brought in Larkin later, McDavid would be the captain. Basically when you have a really really good internal option for it that the team loves, you don't just slap the C on the new guy you bring in.

Captain does not mean "best player". A lot of times they are because leading by example is a great way to do it. But Dustin Brown was the Kings captain for a long time. Even after they got some much better players than him. It's exactly why Sergei Fedorov was never captain over Yzerman even though late 90s Fedorov had WAY WAY more hockey talent left than Yzerman.

Hell, even taking it a step further, if the Wings had flipped when they got Yzerman and Fedorov and Fedorov had the C for a couple years before superstar Yzerman showed up, Feds would have been the captain, not Stevie.

Larkin has been a leader at every level. He organized the entire USA program getting together this summer. Larkin is the next captain in Detroit, he is if Karlsson comes. It is who he has always been as a player. It is why Bobby Mac and Pierre McGuire said on draft night this guy is a future captain of a team. We have always known this part of Larkin's makeup should payoff. It actually is a part of what has driven him to be a better player, he owns the team results. He operates in a captain way and there is no better logical option for the Wings than a local kid with this makeup.

Yzerman's taking over or whatever comes next isn't likely to be different on Larkin. Heck drop Jack Hughes on the team, it is still going to be Larkin with a C. Look no further than his ability to get total buy-in from Mantha and AA after the difficult start as part of the testament to his leadership in my opinion. Larkin is more than we could have hoped for, he is the ceiling of his draft night and he just might be a lot more talented soon because of that work ethic.

I mean things can change, but at this point I am sort of wondering if we will make this announcement in season, it is that apparent we are Dylan Larkin's team moving forward. To me this is a positive development, I think his makeup will help this rebuild significantly. His will to improve and to win are impressive, they are distinctive even among a group of pro athletes that share that trait. It is a part of what makes him a leader at every stop on the way.

And yeah, this is a huge point in Larkin's favor. The Jim Johansson Stars and Stripes game? That was Larkin. He already has several games this year where he's put the team on his back offensively and defensively. And also, it does seem like everyone loves him around the Wings. That's a big big part of being the captain. Getting buy in from all around that you are the guy to lead the team.

 

[SirloinUB]

Let's not forget AA is only 24 years old and a 4th round pick and leads the team in goals! He received way too much criticism on here. He is watched with a magnifying glass. I'm not doubting he has improved but if the rest of the team is/was analyzed to the degree that he was and the media covered this as well Holland would probably "look over his shoulder"

With great potential, comes great expectations and responsibilities. Until now, he hasn't really lived up to that potential so why shouldn't we have watch him with a magnifying glass?

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Let's not forget AA is only 24 years old and a 4th round pick and leads the team in goals! He received way too much criticism on here. He is watched with a magnifying glass. I'm not doubting he has improved but if the rest of the team is/was analyzed to the degree that he was and the media covered this as well Holland would probably "look over his shoulder"

"Only 24"? That means he's about two seasons away from being over the hill and forgotten.

"A 4th round pick"? Draft position is used like this when your argument is weaker. It is completely irrelevant that he was a 4th rounder at this point. Hell, if he didn't have the blemishes on his game and the lack of complete buy-in until just recently... HE WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN THERE IN THE FOURTH ROUND. AA always had way more than "4th round talent". It was always just lumped in with a lackadaisical playstyle and butting heads with coaches.

He was, is, and will be watched with a magnifying glass because everyone sees what he's capable of when he's on.

Most of the rest of the team doesn't have an ounce of the talent he does. It's the same reason that Scotty Bowman would bench or send Sergei Fedorov to play D for awhile. A guy that has massive talent and doesn't utilize it by working hard is far more disappointing than a guy who just isn't that good.

But please, continue having a persecution complex for Andreas Athanasiou. He dogged it, people criticized him. He stopped dogging it, people stopped criticizing him. AA has been fabulous this year but that doesn't mean he was any less frustrating in the last two years. People aren't going to apologize for criticizing him or back you up and say that you're right when quite literally the book on AA was "if he is engaged, he's one of the three best skaters on this team, but he's not engaged most of the time". Good on AA for pulling it together this year, but bad on him for taking this long to do so.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

"Only 24"? That means he's about two seasons away from being over the hill and forgotten.

"A 4th round pick"? Draft position is used like this when your argument is weaker. It is completely irrelevant that he was a 4th rounder at this point. Hell, if he didn't have the blemishes on his game and the lack of complete buy-in until just recently... HE WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN THERE IN THE FOURTH ROUND. AA always had way more than "4th round talent". It was always just lumped in with a lackadaisical playstyle and butting heads with coaches.

He was, is, and will be watched with a magnifying glass because everyone sees what he's capable of when he's on.

Most of the rest of the team doesn't have an ounce of the talent he does. It's the same reason that Scotty Bowman would bench or send Sergei Fedorov to play D for awhile. A guy that has massive talent and doesn't utilize it by working hard is far more disappointing than a guy who just isn't that good.

But please, continue having a persecution complex for Andreas Athanasiou. He dogged it, people criticized him. He stopped dogging it, people stopped criticizing him. AA has been fabulous this year but that doesn't mean he was any less frustrating in the last two years. People aren't going to apologize for criticizing him or back you up and say that you're right when quite literally the book on AA was "if he is engaged, he's one of the three best skaters on this team, but he's not engaged most of the time". Good on AA for pulling it together this year, but bad on him for taking this long to do so.

Stop quoting me about AA. Agree to disagree on this topic.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

With great potential, comes great expectations and responsibilities. Until now, he hasn't really lived up to that potential so why shouldn't we have watch him with a magnifying glass?

I wish all our 4th round picks can end up as "bad" as AA. 110th overall....

 

[SirloinUB]

I wish all our 4th round picks can end up as "bad" as AA. 110th overall....

1) Who said anything about bad?
2) you didn't answer my question

 

[Reddwit]

Sorry its actually saying Larkin is BETTER than them. Thanks for strengthening my point bro!How would Larkin be captain over 3 guaranteed HOF players? What has ever led a team to? Has he won anything on any level?

Its not saying that at all. You can throw me in the camp of people who would agree that any of Crosby, McDavid, and Karlsson could come here and not get the C over Larkin. Hell, you could expand the list to literally everyone. You don't just give the C to an outsider just because he's the best player on that team. That's a great way to give a big middle finger to the leadership group that gets you through the dark times. Toronto didn't even do that with Tavares coming to town.

Also, not sure why you think captain = best player.

• Kane tops Toews but Toews is a better leader by all accounts.
• OEL > Doan.
• Fisher was worse than half the roster when he got the C in Nashville.
• Callahan was far from the Rags best.
• Derek f***ing Mackenzie in Florida.
• Artemi Panarin rolls into town but somehow the untouchable Nick Foligno is still captain.
• Waiting for Colorado to strip the C from Landy and give it to Rantanen or Mack.
• Jason Spezza was given the C over Karlsson.
• Taylor Hall gets traded to NJ and its Andy Greene holding down the captaincy.

Its almost as if the captaincy and leadership have more to do with simply being the best player on the ice.

I'll leave you with this quote from Auston Mathews:

''It's very important to have a captain, but I also think the way Kyle's handling it is the right way to do it because it doesn't really make sense to just throw somebody the captaincy,'' Matthews said. ''It should have to be the right person. I think it's honestly been blown up a lot this summer with our team with, `Somebody's going to get it, who's going to get it?' But I think in the end they're going to make their decision and it's going to be the right one.''

 

[Reddwit]

I think it's safe to say he is our best offensive player. So glad we didn't get rid of him.

I think he's more naturally skilled than anyone else on the team, including Larkin, and him coming into his own has helped bear that out but I'm not sure he has the vision to match his skill. Hes made some big improvements in his timing but I still don't see a guy who sees the ice at an elite level.

On a different note, does anyone else think Athanasiou looks a lot more physically mature this year? I noticed it early this season. It seems kind of late to be coming into his own physically but I guess everyone is different. He simultaneously looks leaner but more filled out. Maybe I should go vegan too.