Proposal: Red Wings - Bruins

[Absurdity]

Is Frans Nielsen a top 6 forward?

The Bruins need cap space to sign DeBrusk, maybe Chara, and are looking to add a top 6 forward (rumored to be in on Hoffman). This deal does nothing to help the Bruins accomplish any of that.

 

[Dr Quincy]

Not saying it makes sense for Bruins, but how much more useful is Moore than Nielsen really? The simple exchange of higher cap hit for the lesser term is pretty fair on the surface, the value only moves depending on how little/much one thinks of Nielsen and Moore. That difference is definitely not more than a 2nd, it's not even a 2nd.

I'm not saying it is at all worth it for DET.

But Dmen like Moore making 2.75m do get moved for picks at the deadline when defensive depth is important to contenders. and 36 year old Fs making over $5m who have 9 pts are immovable.

I mean, I think it's pretty obvious to say that a 2 year contract for a useless $5m player is a lot worse than a 3 year $2m contract for a somewhat useful player.

That extra year is pretty meaningless as it's easy to bury, buyout or trade a 1 year contract at under $3m.

It would be totally stupid for DET to trade a 2nd to get rid of Nielsen when they don't have cap issues.

It would be totally stupid for BOS to add a completely useless contract of $5.25m. This proposal is just bad.

 

[Montecristo]

Not saying it makes sense for Bruins, but how much more useful is Moore than Nielsen really? The simple exchange of higher cap hit for the lesser term is pretty fair on the surface, the value only moves depending on how little/much one thinks of Nielsen and Moore. That difference is definitely not more than a 2nd, it's not even a 2nd.

nielson hurts a cap boston is already trying to navigate more than moore does. And while nielson might play where moore wont, that would be exclusively because of his high salary and not because his skills couldnt be easily supplanted by an entry level player at this point. Unless that d prospect is a top flight blue chipper or someone who projects better than anything boston has in their pool boston cant accept this deal

 

[drw02]

I'm not saying it is at all worth it for DET.

But Dmen like Moore making 2.75m do get moved for picks at the deadline when defensive depth is important to contenders. and 36 year old Fs making over $5m who have 9 pts are immovable.

I mean, I think it's pretty obvious to say that a 2 year contract for a useless $5m player is a lot worse than a 3 year $2m contract for a somewhat useful player.

That extra year is pretty meaningless as it's easy to bury, buyout or trade a 1 year contract at under $3m.

It would be totally stupid for DET to trade a 2nd to get rid of Nielsen when they don't have cap issues.

It would be totally stupid for BOS to add a completely useless contract of $5.25m. This proposal is just bad.

I agree Nielsen is useless, haven't seen enough of Moore to have much of an opinion so if you suggest he's a serviceable bottom pair D i'll take your word for it. Still don't think the difference would be more than a 2nd but doesn't matter, makes no sense for a win now team like Boston to be worried about reducing term length in exchange for more cap now.

 

[Maurice of Orange]

Just to add a few things. First off I want to state that I am not a fan of either team, so I’m coming off a neutral standpoint with some knowledge of each team and what their needs might be.

Nielsen played on a historically bad team with an inexperienced defense and a shot goaltender in Howard (2 wins in 27 starts).

Nielsen was basically trucked with nothing but defensive responsibility in 60 games as a 35yr old 3/4 center with under 14 minutes on average and wasn’t that bad in possession statistics as a strictly defensive forward, I believe that’s the reason Nielsen’s scoring dropped off a cliff.

Moore on the other hand only played in 24 games for Boston, playing under 17 minutes on average as a 7/8 defenseman, Moore’s possession stats also were decent, but only in a sheltered role as he was given mostly offensive zone starts bolstering his possession stats to a respectable level for a 7th defenseman.

This trade would not only be a move for now but also a move for the future of both teams as I stated before Boston would have to pay more even if Detroit retained 975k per season but would have to pay for only two seasons instead of three.

As for the minor pieces on this trade I added Seth Barton to Boston due to the fact that he’s going to be 2-3 years in development so it’s too early to tell what he’s going to be for Boston but he could have upside something that Senyshyn is running out of in Boston since being drafted in 2015.

Also Yzerman has 16 legitimate defensive prospects not including Hronek, so there is a low possibility Barton even signs with Detroit after his college career at Umass-Lowell is over hence why I put him in trade to Boston and the Bruins have more forward prospects then defensive prospect hence why I put Senyshyn in trade to Detroit also Senyshyn and Moore have more of a shot at playing in Detroit’s lineup as does Nielsen and Barton have a better shot at playing in Boston’s lineup believe it or not.

The difference is Boston is still in their competition window and Detroit is rebuilding.

 

[Pia8988]

More words doesn’t make this any less of a train wreck for Boston.

F.

 

[Dr Danglefest]

Senyshyn is gonna be a player . Bruins say no.

he’s not but I agree Boston says No VERY easily

 

[Dr Danglefest]

Just to add a few things. First off I want to state that I am not a fan of either team, so I’m coming off a neutral standpoint with some knowledge of each team and what their needs might be.

Nielsen played on a historically bad team with an inexperienced defense and a shot goaltender in Howard (2 wins in 27 starts).

Nielsen was basically trucked with nothing but defensive responsibility in 60 games as a 35yr old 3/4 center with under 14 minutes on average and wasn’t that bad in possession statistics as a strictly defensive forward, I believe that’s the reason Nielsen’s scoring dropped off a cliff.

Moore on the other hand only played in 24 games for Boston, playing under 17 minutes on average as a 7/8 defenseman, Moore’s possession stats also were decent, but only in a sheltered role as he was given mostly offensive zone starts bolstering his possession stats to a respectable level for a 7th defenseman.

This trade would not only be a move for now but also a move for the future of both teams as I stated before Boston would have to pay more even if Detroit retained 975k per season but would have to pay for only two seasons instead of three.

As for the minor pieces on this trade I added Seth Barton to Boston due to the fact that he’s going to be 2-3 years in development so it’s too early to tell what he’s going to be for Boston but he could have upside something that Senyshyn is running out of in Boston since being drafted in 2015.

Also Yzerman has 16 legitimate defensive prospects not including Hronek, so there is a low possibility Barton even signs with Detroit after his college career at Umass-Lowell is over hence why I put him in trade to Boston and the Bruins have more forward prospects then defensive prospect hence why I put Senyshyn in trade to Detroit also Senyshyn and Moore have more of a shot at playing in Detroit’s lineup as does Nielsen and Barton have a better shot at playing in Boston’s lineup believe it or not.

The difference is Boston is still in their competition window and Detroit is rebuilding.

while I have thought from day 1 and continue to think so, The Moore signing made no sense for this team and he really doesn’t have a spot in the group outside of an occasional fill in which shouldn’t cost ~3mil

yes I do think that Frans Nielsen under different circumstances than the ones he’s currently in, for example if he had stayed in Long Island that he could still be a solid complimentary player

but the fact is you can’t justify his cap hit and it’s something that makes acquiring him as a contender a non starter

perhaps if you retained 50% it’s more palatable to a contender to take that flier that he could be a solid veteran again, but no team takes that risk at anything remotely close to his full hit

 

[nbwingsfan]

It’s only a 300k difference over two seasons if 975k is retained on Nielsen’s contract per season.

Theyre also getting a guy who wouldnt make their team. Neilsen was one of the worst players on the worst team in the league. What makes you think he would have a spot on the best team in the league (during the RS)?

Boston doesn't touch this.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Just to add a few things. First off I want to state that I am not a fan of either team, so I’m coming off a neutral standpoint with some knowledge of each team and what their needs might be.

Nielsen played on a historically bad team with an inexperienced defense and a shot goaltender in Howard (2 wins in 27 starts).

Nielsen was basically trucked with nothing but defensive responsibility in 60 games as a 35yr old 3/4 center with under 14 minutes on average and wasn’t that bad in possession statistics as a strictly defensive forward, I believe that’s the reason Nielsen’s scoring dropped off a cliff.

Moore on the other hand only played in 24 games for Boston, playing under 17 minutes on average as a 7/8 defenseman, Moore’s possession stats also were decent, but only in a sheltered role as he was given mostly offensive zone starts bolstering his possession stats to a respectable level for a 7th defenseman.

This trade would not only be a move for now but also a move for the future of both teams as I stated before Boston would have to pay more even if Detroit retained 975k per season but would have to pay for only two seasons instead of three.

As for the minor pieces on this trade I added Seth Barton to Boston due to the fact that he’s going to be 2-3 years in development so it’s too early to tell what he’s going to be for Boston but he could have upside something that Senyshyn is running out of in Boston since being drafted in 2015.

Also Yzerman has 16 legitimate defensive prospects not including Hronek, so there is a low possibility Barton even signs with Detroit after his college career at Umass-Lowell is over hence why I put him in trade to Boston and the Bruins have more forward prospects then defensive prospect hence why I put Senyshyn in trade to Detroit also Senyshyn and Moore have more of a shot at playing in Detroit’s lineup as does Nielsen and Barton have a better shot at playing in Boston’s lineup believe it or not.

The difference is Boston is still in their competition window and Detroit is rebuilding.

Youre better off just taking the L and moving on here rather than trying to defend yourself.

Evrn Wings fans know this sucks for Boston

 

[Maurice of Orange]

Theyre also getting a guy who wouldnt make their team. Neilsen was one of the worst players on the worst team in the league. What makes you think he would have a spot on the best team in the league (during the RS)?

Boston doesn't touch this.

Theyre also getting a guy who wouldnt make their team. Neilsen was one of the worst players on the worst team in the league. What makes you think he would have a spot on the best team in the league (during the RS)?

Boston doesn't touch this.

You’ve made a fair enough assessment and your opinion is respected.
Your right if Boston is fully healthy Nielsen most likely doesn’t make Boston’s lineup but the Bruins are not going to start the 20-21 season at full health due to offseason surgery’s for Marchand and Pastrnak so it does give Boston’s forwards that would normally be scratched a chance at playing every game until Marchand and Pastrnak return.

At this stage of Nielsen’s career he is more of a strictly defensive forward as his possession stats were average for being on one of the most historically bad teams in the history of the NHL.

 

[Maurice of Orange]

Youre better off just taking the L and moving on here rather than trying to defend yourself.

Evrn Wings fans know this sucks for Boston

Ok I shall take the Loss on this one. Just trying to make a decent proposal which didn’t turn out well as both sides declined this trade proposal just thought maybe Nielsen could have been more serviceable to Boston and Moore could have been the same for Detroit but I thought wrongly of the proposal since Nielsen has more salary on his cap hit then Moore has on his.

Nielsen 5,250,000 x 2 seasons (975k retainer would have been 4,275,000

Moore 2,750,000 x 3 seasons

The difference would have been 1,525,000 which Boston would have paid extra.

 

[Pia8988]

Yes, Boston takes on money and get a worse player.

 

[PlayMakers]

I think Boston would be happy to move Moore to create some openings for their young LD (Lauzon, Zboril, Vaak, Wolff...) but they can't take on cap to do it.

 

[Maurice of Orange]

I think Boston would be happy to move Moore to create some openings for their young LD (Lauzon, Zboril, Vaak, Wolff...) but they can't take on cap to do it.

I understand that extra 1.5mil would probably go to resigning Chara or apart of DeBrusk‘s new contract.
I believe Lauzon and Vaakanainen should play more of a roll on Boston’s defense sooner or later.

I really like Vaakanainen, I have a feeling that kid could become something special for Boston’s blueline for years to come especially if he can be close to what Heiskanen has been for Dallas’ defense.

 

[WhalerTurnedBruin55]

If 975k was retained on Nielsen the hit would be 4,275,000 for 2 seasons, no it’s not cheaper then Moore’s hit of 2,750,000 for 3 seasons but Nielsen would be more of a bottom 6 fill in for 2 seasons instead of having Moore in the pressbox for 3 seasons.

Moore could serve a purpose of mentoring Detroit’s prospect defenseman.
There really isn’t a spot for Moore in Boston anymore especially if Chara returns not to mention having younger defenseman Lauzon, Vaakanainen and Zboril to compete for ice time with.

Also Boston is going to be without Marchand and Pastrnak to begin the season so that may move Coyle from 3C to 1RW for a month or two in a condensed schedule. If Kuraly goes to 3C Nielsen would start 4C in Boston.

Moore is likely going to start the season as our 2nd pair LD (whether Bruins fans like it or not), unless he's dumped to make cap space. And that space shouldn't and wouldn't be used in Nielsen.

Bruins are trying to dump contracts not take them on.

Take Moore, we don't want Nielsen back. If you think he's a good fit to mentor your young defensemen, this Bruins fan would be fine with letting him go.

Peddle Nielsen somewhere else.

 

[Oddbob]

Detroit adds veteran defenseman and depth winger from Boston for veteran center and college defensive prospect.

Acquires: LD John Moore and RW Zach Senyshyn

For

Acquires: C Frans Nielsen (Detroit retains 975k per season) and rights to RD Seth Barton

Absolutely would do this, and would add a 2nd round pick going to Boston, but why on earth would Boston do this? Believe Wings fans, Nielsen is no longer a regular NHL player let alone one that a contending team should want, unless he is the 13th forward who only plays when you are short at the C position only. He has fallen mightily the past 3 seasons.

 

[Oddbob]

Is Frans Nielsen a top 6 forward?

The Bruins need cap space to sign DeBrusk, maybe Chara, and are looking to add a top 6 forward (rumored to be in on Hoffman). This deal does nothing to help the Bruins accomplish any of that.

He isn't even a bottom 3 forward!

 

[Oddbob]

Just to add a few things. First off I want to state that I am not a fan of either team, so I’m coming off a neutral standpoint with some knowledge of each team and what their needs might be.

Nielsen played on a historically bad team with an inexperienced defense and a shot goaltender in Howard (2 wins in 27 starts).

Nielsen was basically trucked with nothing but defensive responsibility in 60 games as a 35yr old 3/4 center with under 14 minutes on average and wasn’t that bad in possession statistics as a strictly defensive forward, I believe that’s the reason Nielsen’s scoring dropped off a cliff.

Moore on the other hand only played in 24 games for Boston, playing under 17 minutes on average as a 7/8 defenseman, Moore’s possession stats also were decent, but only in a sheltered role as he was given mostly offensive zone starts bolstering his possession stats to a respectable level for a 7th defenseman.

This trade would not only be a move for now but also a move for the future of both teams as I stated before Boston would have to pay more even if Detroit retained 975k per season but would have to pay for only two seasons instead of three.

As for the minor pieces on this trade I added Seth Barton to Boston due to the fact that he’s going to be 2-3 years in development so it’s too early to tell what he’s going to be for Boston but he could have upside something that Senyshyn is running out of in Boston since being drafted in 2015.

Also Yzerman has 16 legitimate defensive prospects not including Hronek, so there is a low possibility Barton even signs with Detroit after his college career at Umass-Lowell is over hence why I put him in trade to Boston and the Bruins have more forward prospects then defensive prospect hence why I put Senyshyn in trade to Detroit also Senyshyn and Moore have more of a shot at playing in Detroit’s lineup as does Nielsen and Barton have a better shot at playing in Boston’s lineup believe it or not.

The difference is Boston is still in their competition window and Detroit is rebuilding.

Sorry, those excuses don't work for Nielsen at all, you definitely don't watch him. Howard was terrible, but our team was and is horrendous and made Howard look way worse than he actually was. Howard's play was probably in the still bad 7-8 wins ,3.87, .895 range rather than the 2 wins, 4.20, .882 he did post. Nielsen did nothing offensively and was bad in his own end which is supposed to be his one redeeming trait. This is why advanced stats many times tells a much different story than what actually happened.

 

[Eddie Munson]

If I’m Boston’s GM, I don’t even begin to consider this. People aren’t taking into account that Boston has two center prospects (Studnika & Frederic) that are ready for an NHL stint and are buried under the current forward core. If Coyle moves to wing to replace Pasta, then they need to give Studnika or Frederic a look and not add a bad player and waste cap doing it.

 

[Maurice of Orange]

Sorry, those excuses don't work for Nielsen at all, you definitely don't watch him. Howard was terrible, but our team was and is horrendous and made Howard look way worse than he actually was. Howard's play was probably in the still bad 7-8 wins ,3.87, .895 range rather than the 2 wins, 4.20, .882 he did post. Nielsen did nothing offensively and was bad in his own end which is supposed to be his one redeeming trait. This is why advanced stats many times tells a much different story than what actually happened.

No I don’t watch Nielsen as much as you but I have seen him play in a few games and understand what your saying about Nielsen’s game.

He has definitely slowed down almost to a crawl, his passion for the game even looked like it left him last season and most of the time watching him was almost exclusively spent in the defensive zone because he couldn’t skate fast enough to join a breakout or rush, when he made a pass 9 times out of 10 it would end up on the other teams stick, hell Nielsen isn’t even good on face offs anymore.

Maybe he didn’t care anymore and stoped playing at full strength who knows. Maybe a change of scenery would help but trying to convince another GM to take on 5.25mil for a 36year old center is a difficult task.
I tryed doing it here at 975k retention and everyone thought it was terrible which is true.
Now I know how Steven Y feels trying to rid himself of Frans..

 

[Oddbob]

No I don’t watch Nielsen as much as you but I have seen him play in a few games and understand what your saying about Nielsen’s game.

He has definitely slowed down almost to a crawl, his passion for the game even looked like it left him last season and most of the time watching him was almost exclusively spent in the defensive zone because he couldn’t skate fast enough to join a breakout or rush, when he made a pass 9 times out of 10 it would end up on the other teams stick, hell Nielsen isn’t even good on face offs anymore.

Maybe he didn’t care anymore and stoped playing at full strength who knows. Maybe a change of scenery would help but trying to convince another GM to take on 5.25mil for a 36year old center is a difficult task.
I tryed doing it here at 975k retention and everyone thought it was terrible which is true.
Now I know how Steven Y feels trying to rid himself of Frans..

Yeah, only my speculation, but I think at this point he may just be comfortable with the 5 mil in salary he gets just to be a hockey player, as his effort level was not there at all last season. That is why I think a contending team should not want him, even if it were to help cap wise. Nielsen also doesn't have the prettiest buyout you will see around if a team wanted to do that.

If I were the Bruins and you want that space on the blueline opened up, just buy Moore out next offseason as his cap hit isn't that bad. Plus there is always the bury him in the AHL in normal years. I think this year, the NHL will have to expand past the normal 23 man rosters as the AHL looks like a no go at this point and every team has 5+ guys like a John Moore and with no where to put them. European teams are already probably running out of spots they need to fill or even have available and they would want good NA players if they bring in any.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

Detroit adds veteran defenseman and depth winger from Boston for veteran center and college defensive prospect.

Acquires: LD John Moore and RW Zach Senyshyn

For

Acquires: C Frans Nielsen (Detroit retains 975k per season) and rights to RD Seth Barton

god no

on a personal note I posted strongly in the signing thread announcing nielsson contract 'guaranteeing' he would be a buyout after stinking out the joint in detroit

there were many bad contracts signed that day... a couple I actually thought could work... but this to me was the worst of the worst

im not shocked he had 9 points last year. I will be shocked if he plays more than 1/2 the games this year before being a buyout next season

sorry

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

Yeah, only my speculation, but I think at this point he may just be comfortable with the 5 mil in salary he gets just to be a hockey player, as his effort level was not there at all last season. That is why I think a contending team should not want him, even if it were to help cap wise. Nielsen also doesn't have the prettiest buyout you will see around if a team wanted to do that.

If I were the Bruins and you want that space on the blueline opened up, just buy Moore out next offseason as his cap hit isn't that bad. Plus there is always the bury him in the AHL in normal years. I think this year, the NHL will have to expand past the normal 23 man rosters as the AHL looks like a no go at this point and every team has 5+ guys like a John Moore and with no where to put them. European teams are already probably running out of spots they need to fill or even have available and they would want good NA players if they bring in any.

it does make more sense to bury him then it does to buy him out... but the most likely course of events is that we play him in the top 4 this year

dude isnt so old that his wheels have fallen off... he still has the same tools that made him a first round pick... made him an asset to jersey... got himself a 5 year deal as an ufa.

obviously his confidence is shot... or he lost his work ethic... or both?

giving him a fresh start at training camp with krug and possibly chara out of the way... lets him have a chance to save his career. he could re-establish the value that he had as recently as a year ago

2.75 isnt unreasonable... if boston retains 750k then its a damnright good contract for a 4-5 guy with good skating/puck skills and decent size

im not saying I wouldnt trade him if the cost was right... id be willing to throw in an asset to move him... I do think he has negative value today. I think id rather give zboril a chance than give moore another chance. but im not taking back a nightmare contract to do it

we are able to afford to keep moore… we are able to give him another chance

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Don't see either Detroit or Boston doing this, Boston has no use for Frans Nielsen and Boston would need to attach a pick or prospect to John Moore for DET to take him.