Red Wings Beat Writer Calling Out Frans Nielsen
- Thread starter leeroggy
- Start date
My feeling all along was we'd really miss Franz the 1st year, kinda miss him the 2nd and be thrilled to be rid of him after that, especially with a guy like Barzal on the horizon. I will give Garth credit for not caving in on this contract.
Strummergas
Regular User
Isles still miss him in the shootout, but it's becoming apparent that his current contract will come back to haunt Detroit.
SLAPSHOT723
QU! Bobcats!
He was always a very good player but also overrated. That was a bad contract from the beginning. We needed to move on and I'm glad we did. If he was still here, Barzal probably doesn't make the team.
bigtim1988
YES! YES! YES! YES!
mine too. I knew we'd miss both him and Okposo the first year they were gone, but guys like Barzal and Ho-Sang had potential to be as good, or even better than those two.
still would rather have Franz over Ladd which is basically who we got as a replacement
on a side note, these big contracts given out to non-superstars, are they ever not regrettable? teams go overboard in trying to get the best available player in the UFA market and it is almost always a mistake
on a side note, these big contracts given out to non-superstars, are they ever not regrettable? teams go overboard in trying to get the best available player in the UFA market and it is almost always a mistake
majormet
Registered User
The problem is that there is always a team that will outbid by 20% the other teams as they may have cap room that others don't and there are a lot of bad contracts out there.
In the case of Frans, I am not so sure his decline would be as evident in Isles country because he would now be our 3C, but yeah I guess a lot to pay for a 3C, but cheaper than our 3rd line left winger
Costigan77
Registered User
I always believed Frans was a bit overrated. That being said, if the Isles kept him, pretty sure Nelson would have been sent somewhere for a winger or defenseman.
BelovedIsles
Registered User
- Oct 22, 2005
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I don't think he was overrated. His impact cannot be measured by the eye test (or stats analysis). He would do so many subtle things on the ice that would indirectly translate to a defensive stop or a scoring opportunity. That said, many of us saw that he was trending downward.
CupHolders
Really Fries My Bananas!
- Aug 8, 2006
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Except Garth reportedly offered more than Detroit. So not really a cave...
Although I always wondered if NYI wasn’t offering a NMC, and that’s why he didn’t commit.
LeapOnOver
Mackenzie is a hack!
It's all perspective, I would still take him any day and twice on Sunday compared to the highest paid third liner in the league, Andrew Ladd. Can't believe anybody can comment on this thread without making the correct comparison.
Just noticed Bood mentioned it, kudos!
Just noticed Bood mentioned it, kudos!
Nassau Revisited
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- Jun 16, 2017
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Nielsen and Okposo are both still superior players to Ladd. Ladd is a declining 3rd liner with a good shot at this point. He will be a 4th liner/12th foward type by year 3/4 of his contract
Clutterbuck is a 3.5 million dollar 13th foward with 4 years left on his deal.
Snow has his fair share of contract blunders and after a decade the team is still treading water.
Clutterbuck is a 3.5 million dollar 13th foward with 4 years left on his deal.
Snow has his fair share of contract blunders and after a decade the team is still treading water.
Why do posters think lines 1 thru 4 become demotions when you can no longer play a top 9 role? Being a 4th line player is no different than being a 1st line player, they just have different jobs to do(you require specific personal). The Islanders had the best 4th line in hockey for a reason, they no longer do for a reason!
Ladd does not have the makeup to be a great 4th liner, stashing him there would be in order to justify a bad contract only.
Reproducing the best 4th line in hockey would require, Martin/Ciz/Clutter...Its all about being personel specific when building lines.
When building a house the foundation is everything, NYI had the foundation the top lines required tweeking.
aronjudge11
Registered User
- Jul 2, 2017
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Okiposo was the one to keep out of clutterbuck ladd nielsen Kyle had good legs and wasnt slowing down. was young enough to expect him to keep being usefull. I dont know why they didnt sign him if it was because he wasnt so good at hockey why did they have him on the team for so many years?
Jesus Christ the way some of you are speaking you'd think Andrew Ladd is the worst player on the planet. He almost scored 25 last year, he'll get another 20-25 this year. He's still a good player.
Sheva7
Work Hahd Play Smaht
- Oct 11, 2011
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Strummergas
Regular User
PK Cronin
Bailey Fan Club Prez
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Being a 4th liner is drastically different than being a first liner. You have different jobs to do, yes, and one of those jobs is far easier to do than the other. Going from the top line to the fourth is a demotion, both in skill set required and in ice time. There's no other way of looking at it.
Okposo couldn't come up big when it mattered most. He disappeared.
Nielsen's last two seasons with the Islanders: 0.327 EVP/game or 26.8 EVP/82games
Cizikas' last two full seasons: 0.359 EVP/game or 29.5 EVP/82 games
Ladd's seasons and change with the Islanders: 0.333 EVP/game or 27.3 EVP/82 games
Nielsen had already declined notably before he even left. He was still good on special teams and a good defensive forward, but he wasn't a top 6 forward anymore, and should've been paid as a shutdown forward and PK specialist. Heck, for all the crap people give about Clutter's play, Cal had only 5 fewer EV points than Frans did last season, despite Frans getting an extra 250 min of EV TOI.
Cizikas and Clutterbuck have been much better since Martin left, both offensively and defensively, and have had harder matchups since then to boot. It's not as physical as it was, but it's overall a much more effective line and able to be deployed in more situations with Kulemin than it ever was with Martin.
Cizikas' last two full seasons: 0.359 EVP/game or 29.5 EVP/82 games
Ladd's seasons and change with the Islanders: 0.333 EVP/game or 27.3 EVP/82 games
Nielsen had already declined notably before he even left. He was still good on special teams and a good defensive forward, but he wasn't a top 6 forward anymore, and should've been paid as a shutdown forward and PK specialist. Heck, for all the crap people give about Clutter's play, Cal had only 5 fewer EV points than Frans did last season, despite Frans getting an extra 250 min of EV TOI.
Cizikas and Clutterbuck have been much better since Martin left, both offensively and defensively, and have had harder matchups since then to boot. It's not as physical as it was, but it's overall a much more effective line and able to be deployed in more situations with Kulemin than it ever was with Martin.
Richie Daggers Crime
Boosted 9 times they/them
I was thinking that the way some people are speaking, they must be huffing paint.
CodeE
step on snek
The difference between football & hockey is that in football, you can sign your 31-year-old linebacker to a 4-year extension knowing if he completely breaks down in year 2, it's not that big of a deal to cut him and move forward.
Hockey has guaranteed contracts, paying top dollar for what a 30-31 year old has done previously is extremely foolish, especially if you give them term. We're going to feel the burn of the Ladd contract, and I'm still dreading the season Boychuk starts playing like Dan Girardi, but perhaps in the next CBA negotiations we can get a compliance buyout for every team.
When the Ladd's, Nielsen's, Loui Erikkson's, Lucic's of the world want 6-7 years at high AAV, you simply let someone else sign them.
Hockey has guaranteed contracts, paying top dollar for what a 30-31 year old has done previously is extremely foolish, especially if you give them term. We're going to feel the burn of the Ladd contract, and I'm still dreading the season Boychuk starts playing like Dan Girardi, but perhaps in the next CBA negotiations we can get a compliance buyout for every team.
When the Ladd's, Nielsen's, Loui Erikkson's, Lucic's of the world want 6-7 years at high AAV, you simply let someone else sign them.
