Red Kelly/Doug Harvey

Discussion in 'The History of Hockey' started by scribe114, Jul 15, 2005.

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  1. scribe114

    scribe114 Registered User

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    Who was the better player? lets get some good feedback on this one. :dunno:

    Suggestion: If you plan on launching player vs. player threads put a poll in so members can vote.

    Semper Fi,

    Scribe.
     
  2. Snap Wilson

    Snap Wilson Registered User

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    Harvey was past his prime by the time I got to see him with the hometown Rags (and his late-sixties comeback with the expansion Blues). He was a smart player, and a nasty one. My memories of Kelly are as a center!

    Kelly outpointed Harvey more often than not in the years they played defense, but I think that had more to do with the style of play of their respective teams. Harvey quarterbacked the lethal Habs power play, and a lot of people felt he was the best player on that late-fifties dynasty. I can't definitively say, but I'll go with Harvey.
     
  3. Ogopogo*

    Ogopogo* Guest

    Based on their accomplishements in the NHL, Harvey is ahead of Kelly. Harvey is the #4 defenseman of all time, Kelly is #5.
     
  4. ForsbergForever

    ForsbergForever Red Rocket

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    7 Norris Trophies don't lie, it's Harvey all the way.
     
  5. Psycho Papa Joe

    Psycho Papa Joe Porkchop Hoser

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    The voters of the day, who saw both play, consistenly rated Harvey the better d-man when both were at their best, evidenced by the Norris trophies.

    That said, hockey Historians probably don't give Kelly the credit he deserved.
     
  6. Hockey Outsider

    Hockey Outsider Registered User

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    I voted for Harvey, but it's quite close.

    Keep in mind that the Norris Trophy wasn't around until 1954. Red Kelly had a great season every year from 1950-1953, but he couldn't have won the Norris for any of them. (In those four years, he was 3rd place in Hart voting twice, first team all-star three times, and led all defensemen in scoring all four years). Kelly probably would have won 2 or 3 Norris trophies over that span.
     
  7. Canucks5551

    Canucks5551 Registered User

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    I voted for Harvey
     
  8. Ogopogo*

    Ogopogo* Guest

    Historians do. It is many of the modern hockey fans that don't. They never saw him play so, they know very little about him.

    I think historians have a good undersanding of how great he was. Some do, anyway.
     
  9. canucksfan

    canucksfan Registered User

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    Harvey. IMO he is the best defencemen not named Orr. Kelly is however, underrated.
     
  10. Leaf Lander

    Leaf Lander Registered User Sponsor

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    the bigger drunk was harvey handsdown:D
     
  11. Big Phil

    Big Phil Registered User

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    Harvey for sure. Some really, really old school guys would say he was more complete than Orr, but I think Orr takes that one. But Kelly is often forgotten about as well. He won 8 Cups. And no one won more Cups than him by a player who wasnt a Hab
     
  12. Bring Back Bucky

    Bring Back Bucky Registered User

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    Do you think he had opportunity to taste that sweet Cape Breton nectar known as Highland Classic, LL??? ;)
     
  13. Psycho Papa Joe

    Psycho Papa Joe Porkchop Hoser

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    I was referring to the lists of all time best players. Kelly invariably comes up much later in those lists than Harvey, when in truth the difference was likely not that much.
     
  14. mcphee

    mcphee Registered User

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    My Dad saw both in their prime and says Kelly was great but Harvey could control the tempo of a game.He never saw a player like that until Orr came around. The game was so easy for him, he'd try stunts with the puck to keep interested. He ran the PP like a QB, and would control the puck for long periods on the pk. He had his personal demons,quite a few actually, but I'm told he was one of the great all around athletes.
     
  15. #66

    #66 Registered User

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    I like Kelly more but I voted for Harvey because of the way Beliveau talks about him in his book. Like some others have said he just controled the tempo of the game whether it was with a quick outlet pass or skating back in his zone, having the other team chase him and then passing to a breaking forward. Beliveau also calls him "the general" because of his great leadership in the locker room.
     
  16. BM67

    BM67 Registered User

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    Kelly was better for 7 years, then Harvey was better for 7-9 years, then Kelly was better again, so on a career level Kelly is slightly ahead. Peak value would go to Harvey though.
     
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