Red Dead Redemption 2 - Reder and Deader

[Pilky01]

Ever since Arthur got sick I have been declining literally every time a person tries to compensate me for a good deed.

 

[Rodgerwilco]

Ever since Arthur got sick I have been declining literally every time a person tries to compensate me for a good deed.

Same here. I'm absolutely loving the Edith Downes missions. I got to Chapter 6 last night and this mission strand is really showing Arthur's good side and what kind of person he is beneath the big bad outlaw.

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

Same here. I'm absolutely loving the Edith Downes missions. I got to Chapter 6 last night and this mission strand is really showing Arthur's good side and what kind of person he is beneath the big bad outlaw.

I feel like we’re at the exact same point in the story. Just finished the Downes side story.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Oops, I quoted the wrong person. I meant to reply to whoever it was who was talking about the stranger encounters not having any good rewards or impact.

Using flavour to excuse, what I consider, poor design is not ok. At the end of the day, the game is supposed to make me want to complete it. The story and characters were wonderful and pulled their weight but on the gameplay front this game is a failure in my book.

Also I really enjoyed my time with the game (except the Epilogue that goes on for far too long), I don't mean to take a dump on RDR2.

 

[Rodgerwilco]

Using flavour to excuse, what I consider, poor design is not ok. At the end of the day, the game is supposed to make me want to complete it. The story and characters were wonderful and pulled their weight but on the gameplay front this game is a failure in my book.

Also I really enjoyed my time with the game (except the Epilogue that goes on for far too long), I don't mean to take a dump on RDR2.

You're entitled to that opinion, of course, but , I don't consider it an excuse or a failure. In real life if you go out of your way to help someone in need you may not ever get anything as a reward, and might not even remember the person's face 30 minutes later. Being altruistic for the sake of getting something as a reward isn't really being altruistic.

Many small acts of kindness have zero impact on the 'helper' whatsoever.

The way I see the types of rewards you get from things like collecting cigarette cards, satchels, dinosaur bones, etc. is that it's there for Completionist types of people if they want it, but if you don't it doesn't have a big negative impact. There are a lot of things in a lot video games that are designed this way.

There are just certain people who are more geared toward that. It would be an impossible task to try to coax EVERYONE into completion. Without a major reward you're not going to entice people who wouldn't normally collect things, and then you're just forcing people through a flea circus to get good content at that point.

The completionist things are more for the sake of feeling a sense of satisfaction of completing a task, rather than actually for getting good content. If you bought a Rockstar game expecting these little side-tasks to be greatly rewarding, then I don't know what you were thinking.

 

[Pay Carl]

I understand the principle of what he is trying to say as it is nice to get some reward for some of the harder stuff in the game, but seeing a UFO is not something that needs a reward

There are lots of things that could have better rewards. Not to spoil anything but a lot of the treasure missions just give you money, and I don't need money. I wish I got a cool weapon, item, clothing, etc.

I do think they screwed the achievements up. Like half of them are online only which is odd for a primarily story based game

 

[Do Make Say Think]

You're entitled to that opinion, of course, but , I don't consider it an excuse or a failure. In real life if you go out of your way to help someone in need you may not ever get anything as a reward, and might not even remember the person's face 30 minutes later. Being altruistic for the sake of getting something as a reward isn't really being altruistic.

Many small acts of kindness have zero impact on the 'helper' whatsoever.

The way I see the types of rewards you get from things like collecting cigarette cards, satchels, dinosaur bones, etc. is that it's there for Completionist types of people if they want it, but if you don't it doesn't have a big negative impact. There are a lot of things in a lot video games that are designed this way.

There are just certain people who are more geared toward that. It would be an impossible task to try to coax EVERYONE into completion. Without a major reward you're not going to entice people who wouldn't normally collect things, and then you're just forcing people through a flea circus to get good content at that point.

The completionist things are more for the sake of feeling a sense of satisfaction of completing a task, rather than actually for getting good content. If you bought a Rockstar game expecting these little side-tasks to be greatly rewarding, then I don't know what you were thinking.

Best way I think I can put it is that nothing changes in terms of gameplay throughout the entire game. You don't get anything that has any kind of effect on how you go about stuff: all you get are more poweful weapons but deadeye lets you headshot everyone very easily, faster horses and more inventory space.

You fight the same enemies the same way at the beginning and at the end. In itself it isn't a problem but when your game is this long and wide, I think it can reasonably labelled as a problem.

It being a problem doesn't mean I think people shouldn't like the game as much as they do of course, no game is perfect and I have fallen in love with plenty of flawed wom.... errrr I mean games

 

[Morozov]

They are not at all, what are you talking about?

I can have 100 gun cleaners now, I can have 100 snake oils (makes a huge difference), you can keep all the parts from animals when hunting rather than wasting some

Of course you can play the game without upgrading the satchels, getting the trinkets, etc. but doing so is fun and makes life much easier



Again you couldn't be more wrong. Just because you wanted to complete the game as fast as you can doesn't mean the other upgraded items are useless

One of the trinkets makes it so animals don't decompose as fast, one makes Eagle Eye last significantly longer. If you are actually interested in playing the game until completion those aren't useless at all

It really sounds like you just wanted to be done with the game

I finished the game without these things and it was already incredibly easy. At no point did I ever think damn I need better weapons or equipment to get through this section of the game. I never needed 100 gun cleaners.

Sure, maybe these things will make life easier, but it's already so easy that I was continually hoping that I would be forced into a situation where I needed to upgrade something and it just didn't happen.

Even with the different types of guns, I rarely felt that I needed to use anything but the main repeater I rolled with. Obviously some situations basically escorted you into using a sniper. Sometimes I started using a shotgun just because it was more fun to blow the shit out of people, but I never felt compelled to use a different gun because it just wasn't required.

It's incredibly easy to headshot basically everyone you encounter even without deadeye. I barely used deadeye because I found the shootouts more fun and engaging without it.

Because of this I never felt a progression in this regard. I never really felt bigger, stronger, more dangerous. There was never encounters where I had to think nope I'm out of here and I'll come back when I'm ready.

What I did feel progression wise was more personal/emotional which is obviously a central part of the game, and is great.

What I did want to upgrade was my horse, and once I got an Arabian that was that covered.

 

[Pay Carl]

I finished the game without these things and it was already incredibly easy. At no point did I ever think damn I need better weapons or equipment to get through this section of the game. I never needed 100 gun cleaners.

Sure, maybe these things will make life easier, but it's already so easy that I was continually hoping that I would be forced into a situation where I needed to upgrade something and it just didn't happen.

Even with the different types of guns, I rarely felt that I needed to use anything but the main repeater I rolled with. Obviously some situations basically escorted you into using a sniper. Sometimes I started using a shotgun just because it was more fun to blow the **** out of people, but I never felt compelled to use a different gun because it just wasn't required.

It's incredibly easy to headshot basically everyone you encounter even without deadeye. I barely used deadeye because I found the shootouts more fun and engaging without it.

Because of this I never felt a progression in this regard. I never really felt bigger, stronger, more dangerous. There was never encounters where I had to think nope I'm out of here and I'll come back when I'm ready.

What I did feel progression wise was more personal/emotional which is obviously a central part of the game, and is great.

What I did want to upgrade was my horse, and once I got an Arabian that was that covered.

I didn't get any upgrades until the game was over either

People talk about this game as if its a shooter, its really not. Its more of an adventure game where you happen to shoot. If the game was a shooter the mechanics would be totally different

The helpful upgrades are the ones that allow you to adventure better, included in that is the ability to dead-eye longer, but the best upgrades help the adventure part more. Getting two herbs when you pick certain ones up, having two star pelts upgraded to 3 star, keeping animals for longer on your horse, being able to eagle-eye for much longer, etc.

Again I understand the gripes to some extent. I'm getting most of my upgrades well after I've beaten the game when I don't really need it. Thankfully some like the ones I just mentioend are really useful if you're trying to 100% the game

I was thinking some actual useful upgrades would be stuff like with a certain saddle your horse is less likely to crash into a tree, witnesses will be less likely to report your crimes with a certain trinket, etc.

 

[Morozov]

Those things, as you touch on, help with those additional side aspects of the game, "adventuring" as you call it. Which is great if you actually want to achieve those. But if you're not going for 100% then the incentive isn't there, because the rewards aren't useful enough, or aren't necessary enough, to do it.

Typically, side options like that often have a lure to them. Become great at alchemy and you can make these super awesome potions that you can't get elsewhere, or save you a lot of money because you don't need to buy them anymore. Become a master blacksmith to get some awesome sword that is going to help you slice through the tougher enemies you encounter etc. This is on top of wanting to complete everything.

But because there's never really a difficult time in the game, there's no great challenge, money becomes very easy to get, it remains the case that effectively these "get useful" things that you're talking about are only useful when you're going for 100%. And even then, it's not really about giving you progression so much as giving you help to make that grind a little less dreary.

Again, if you want 100% then that's fine. But for people who don't want to grind through games of blackjack, these rewards are pretty useless. As you even said, you didn't need them. You want to 100%, that's great, but those rewards remain useless for others which you seem very dismissive of.

I would have loved more incentive for me to do those aspects of the game more, but they simply aren't there.

 

[Pay Carl]

I think you could say that about most games other than RPG's

I started playing Assassins Creed Black Flag a few months ago (didn't make it far yet) but I was able to buy the statistical best sword in the game after like 2 hours of play or something ridiculous

Also I think a lot of this debate has come out of context. The original poster was saying they were "useless" which couldn't be further from the truth. Just because they are useless for your play style doesn't mean useless

 

[Morozov]

Not really. As mentioned, typically these side avenues are going to give you rewards that have more practical use to assist you with the core part of the game. That doesn't mean that it is always the only avenue to those benefits, but typically there are worthwhile rewards to make you bigger, stronger, have additional moves, save money by crafting instead of buying outright etc. However, when a game doesn't give you reason to push for you to improve your character, you have less incentive to chase these things.

A large part of the reason for this is that it simply isn't that style of game. It isn't meant to be a big challenge, it's meant to be an experience. But the above is part of the trade-off for that.

Why do I want these rewards unless I'm going for 100%? they serve no use to me because the game is already so easy. A huge number of the extra components of this game simply aren't required to actually complete the game, or to even make the game easier, unless you want to 100% it. I had no need to expand my repertoire of things I could cook, I cooked maybe twice in the game because I never needed to, let alone need to cook bigger, better things.

I think it's pretty obvious that when he says useless, he's referring to his own play style. Just because they are useful for you doesn't mean they aren't useless for him, and even you conceded that you didn't get any upgrades until you had finished the main game. It's you who is dismissive of this saying it "couldn't be further from the truth". It's actually completely true, for those playing in that way. Which is most people, most people are not going to 100% this game. And even then, as mentioned, the use is primarily making things less grindy rather than enhancing your character.

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

Just finished chapter 6 and am in the epilogue. Still a bit confused about the ending of chapter 6 and I hope the epilogue clears some stuff up.

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

On the subject of progression I pretty much upgraded nothing and didn’t find the game incredibly difficult, which is fine by me as I was incredibly sucked into the story. Fun side missions too my favorite NPC was that that Choutenay painter guy in Denis he was awesome.

The only thing I upgraded was gun parts and some trinkets from stumbling on legendary animals. Same satchel from the beginning.

 

[Pay Carl]

Not really. As mentioned, typically these side avenues are going to give you rewards that have more practical use to assist you with the core part of the game. That doesn't mean that it is always the only avenue to those benefits, but typically there are worthwhile rewards to make you bigger, stronger, have additional moves, save money by crafting instead of buying outright etc. However, when a game doesn't give you reason to push for you to improve your character, you have less incentive to chase these things.

A large part of the reason for this is that it simply isn't that style of game. It isn't meant to be a big challenge, it's meant to be an experience. But the above is part of the trade-off for that.

Why do I want these rewards unless I'm going for 100%? they serve no use to me because the game is already so easy. A huge number of the extra components of this game simply aren't required to actually complete the game, or to even make the game easier, unless you want to 100% it. I had no need to expand my repertoire of things I could cook, I cooked maybe twice in the game because I never needed to, let alone need to cook bigger, better things.

I think it's pretty obvious that when he says useless, he's referring to his own play style. Just because they are useful for you doesn't mean they aren't useless for him, and even you conceded that you didn't get any upgrades until you had finished the main game. It's you who is dismissive of this saying it "couldn't be further from the truth". It's actually completely true, for those playing in that way. Which is most people, most people are not going to 100% this game. And even then, as mentioned, the use is primarily making things less grindy rather than enhancing your character.

do you understand what the word useless means?

personally, I would find an epi-pen useless because I do not have diabetes. I would not say they are useless to someone with diabetes

simple concept really

just because you want to complete the story and be done doesn't mean that the items which help 100% the story are useless. when I have to collect a dozen different animal pelts and mail them out, the items that will allow me to track them easier, earn perfect pelts easier, and carry them longer will help

the best part is you keep answering your own problem. complaining that the upgrades come too late and aren't necessary to beat the game, then admitting yourself that the game isn't mean to be a shooter challenge and more of an adventure or experience

i'm shocked that you were expecting that a trinket which helps hold animal pelts longer was supposed to make defeating the o'driscolls or any of the numerous other enemies easier

 

[Morozov]

do you understand what the word useless means?

personally, I would find an epi-pen useless because I do not have diabetes. I would not say they are useless to someone with diabetes

simple concept really

just because you want to complete the story and be done doesn't mean that the items which help 100% the story are useless. when I have to collect a dozen different animal pelts and mail them out, the items that will allow me to track them easier, earn perfect pelts easier, and carry them longer will help

the best part is you keep answering your own problem. complaining that the upgrades come too late and aren't necessary to beat the game, then admitting yourself that the game isn't mean to be a shooter challenge and more of an adventure or experience

i'm shocked that you were expecting that a trinket which helps hold animal pelts longer was supposed to make defeating the o'driscolls or any of the numerous other enemies easier

The irony of you talking about context yet obviously having zero understanding of it is hilarious.

It's pretty obvious the context for useless in this scenario is determined by the user. It shouldn't really need explaining to you that usefulness is dependent on the situation. If you're in a sinking boat and someone hands you an epi pen, it is useless for you in that situation.

By your logic, every single thing has something it can be used for thus nothing is useless.

I don't have a "problem" to answer, you just clearly lack the ability to see any view on something other than your own. How worked up and defensive you are about such a topic is outright weird.

Yes, as mentioned, if you are someone in the minority going for 100%, it is useful. For those who aren't, it isn't. This isn't rocket science. For whatever reason, you refuse to accept this very basic point.

When have I said anything to suggest I would think that would be the case? What a strange reach of an argument to be "shocked" over.

 

[Commander Clueless]

Best way I think I can put it is that nothing changes in terms of gameplay throughout the entire game. You don't get anything that has any kind of effect on how you go about stuff: all you get are more poweful weapons but deadeye lets you headshot everyone very easily, faster horses and more inventory space.

You fight the same enemies the same way at the beginning and at the end. In itself it isn't a problem but when your game is this long and wide, I think it can reasonably labelled as a problem.

It being a problem doesn't mean I think people shouldn't like the game as much as they do of course, no game is perfect and I have fallen in love with plenty of flawed wom.... errrr I mean games

I think it's mostly symptoms of the game's one true flaw: pacing.

Extended side content is fine and dandy, but the main story drags hard at parts (and the epilogue isn't even worth playing IMO), which makes the repetitive stuff stand out.


I said it before, but if they cut chapter 5 completely and shaved a bunch off of chapter 6 while putting the one worthwhile event in the epilogue just at the end of chapter 6, I think it would have been a significantly better game. In fact, I think the epilogue event happening in chapter 6 would have made the ending more powerful.

Chapters 2-4 were glorious.

They could also have sped up chapter 1 a bit, as it started very slowly....although I had a similar problem with God of War, so it might be a personal problem.

That said, it was still great.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Just finished chapter 6 and am in the epilogue. Still a bit confused about the ending of chapter 6 and I hope the epilogue clears some stuff up.

What are you unsure about? Not a lot loose ends at the end of the main story from what I recall.

There are two endings but they don't change much other than how something goes down, the end result remains the same.

 

[Pay Carl]

The irony of you talking about context yet obviously having zero understanding of it is hilarious.

It's pretty obvious the context for useless in this scenario is determined by the user. It shouldn't really need explaining to you that usefulness is dependent on the situation. If you're in a sinking boat and someone hands you an epi pen, it is useless for you in that situation.

By your logic, every single thing has something it can be used for thus nothing is useless.

I don't have a "problem" to answer, you just clearly lack the ability to see any view on something other than your own. How worked up and defensive you are about such a topic is outright weird.

Yes, as mentioned, if you are someone in the minority going for 100%, it is useful. For those who aren't, it isn't. This isn't rocket science. For whatever reason, you refuse to accept this very basic point.

When have I said anything to suggest I would think that would be the case? What a strange reach of an argument to be "shocked" over.

Alright I’m done talking to someone who clearly is too stubborn to concede anything

 

[Morozov]

Alright I’m done talking to someone who clearly is too stubborn to concede anything

I literally conceded things in the post, I'm not sure you are actually reading them lol. It is you who refuses to concede anything, even when you openly admit it applied to yourself, which is hilarious.

 

[S E P H]

What are you unsure about? Not a lot loose ends at the end of the main story from what I recall.

There are two endings but they don't change much other than how something goes down, the end result remains the same.

I don't think he has played the first RDR yet, so a lot of it could be really confusing. The RDR came out like ten years ago and man I forgot about everything from the original story. Had to watch a youtube video to tie in the events from both games.

 

[Jovavic]

I wish they had like a detailed story recap and bios on all the people and how they relate to Arthur. I won't be able to play for a few weeks and I'm sure when I start up again I'll have no idea wtf I was doing or what's going on.

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

I don't think he has played the first RDR yet, so a lot of it could be really confusing. The RDR came out like ten years ago and man I forgot about everything from the original story. Had to watch a youtube video to tie in the events from both games.

No no it was more about the end scene I got. I thought the one I got wasn’t perfectly clear that’s why I was a bit confused. Without spoiling anything. Got it now though.

Ok I do have one complaint with the game and I feel like this feature is broken. Quick draw.

I slightly press R2 and while the meter is filling I just get shot dead on these gun slinger missions.

At no point do I ever actually get to shoot my gun. Highly annoying and IMO the worst feature in this game. Everything else I love though.

 

[Pay Carl]

No no it was more about the end scene I got. I thought the one I got wasn’t perfectly clear that’s why I was a bit confused. Without spoiling anything. Got it now though.

Ok I do have one complaint with the game and I feel like this feature is broken. Quick draw.

I slightly press R2 and while the meter is filling I just get shot dead on these gun slinger missions.

At no point do I ever actually get to shoot my gun. Highly annoying and IMO the worst feature in this game. Everything else I love though.

Don't worry you weren't the only one, I felt the same way

I've had a ton of trouble with the shootouts too, I think my recent discovery was that rather than waiting to aim for the head just start shooting as soon as you can while you're bringing the gun up into their legs/body. That worked for me last time

 

[Pilky01]

I tried to do the quickdraw thing once, it didn't work, and so I have never done it again.

I'm not even really sure what situation it would be useful in. Seems like just yet another thing that Rockstar put into their game because it was cool even though they had no actual plans or uses for it.