Rebuild Thread - thoughts, emotions, ideas

[Langdon Alger]

We need a coach not afraid to play the kids. Someone in a Gordon Bombay mould.

We also need a leader with the heart of Charlie Conway and a goalie like Goldberg. A little toughness with a Fulton Reed wouldn’t hurt either.

 

[Spirit of 67]

I think the first thing to do is make amends with Alfie and make him team president.

Then let him be the face of the franchise. At least, in terms of non players.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Exactly

Add Top-5 pick, Brown, Batherson, White, Chlapik, Formenton, Jaros, Wolanin, Gustavsson/Hogberg and you really don’t need a rebuild. Also adding Pageau and Ceci who are young and can be good supporting players

We have to be careful here. Historically, about a third of the good prospects end up as washouts/plugs. If the plan requires all (or almost all) of the kids to turn into solid players (and a few new members of the core), the plan will likely fail. Having a good stable of prospect is definitely a big part of the plan.....but it is not the end-all and be-all of a successful rebuild.



The key is to have some decent all-around players on the team already. Not talking a Stone or Karlsson (although that is amazing for a rebuild), but MacArthur type guys. Guys who play in the middle 6 who are simply great pros, who can teach the kids the right way to play, and solidify the roster. We can have all the amazing kids we want (a la Edmonton), but teams like that don't go anywhere without good veterans as both mentors and solid contributors.

 

[JD1]

sorry Bert but the Richardson idea is far from a good one imo and MT is just a big no

my apologies to Bert I was quoting Tuna there

 

[Langdon Alger]

sorry Bert but the Richardson idea is far from a good one imo and MT is just a big no

No respeck.

 

[coladin]

I think the first thing to do is make amends with Alfie and make him team president.

Then let him be the face of the franchise. At least, in terms of non players.

We need someone who knows what he is doing, not a figurehead

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I put this is the trade thread but following the rebuild theme which to me means EK is traded.. We trade Hoffman as well .. If we could trade Hoffman to Colorado for Makar and our 2019 1st or a 2019 first ..
Check these moves out


Win the lottery .. (not likely but man if we do) Draft Dahlin and trade for Makar .. our D would be set for the next 10 -15 years.. Get a young stud forward ++ in the deal for Karlsson... They would sell tickets

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

We need someone who knows what he is doing, not a figurehead

And I think we need to move on from Alfie....at least for awhile. He was a hockey player, not a savior. Like you said, we need to focus on hiring the best, most qualified folks we can. Worry about figureheads after we have a solid management team in place.

 

[Alex1234]

If we trade EK + Ryan that means the team to which we trade them has to NOT be on both EK modified NTC and Bobby modified NTC and NMC

EK has a 10 teams NTC
Do we know Bobby's?

That leaves what? Like 3-4 teams available?

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

If we trade EK + Ryan that means the team to which we trade them has to NOT be on both EK modified NTC and Bobby modified NTC and NMC

EK has a 10 teams NTC
Do we know Bobby's?

That leaves what? Like 3-4 teams available?

EK has 10 teams that he can't automatically be traded to. EK holds the cards. He could say to the target team that he will go to free agency to test the market thereby reducing his value in a trade with that team.. He could tell Ottawa .. I'd be willing to resign with these 3 or 4 teams so that would reduce the options. Can any of those teams take Ryan?

Ryan also submits a 10 team no trade list... So depending what Karlsson does the number of teams the list could be really small.

If its straight up and EK has no issues with any of the 20 teams available the chances are good that there would be a good number of teams available to both players... If the team gets a deal with a team on one of their lists ... they would ask the player to waive for that team.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

I put this is the trade thread but following the rebuild theme which to me means EK is traded.. We trade Hoffman as well .. If we could trade Hoffman to Colorado for Makar and our 2019 1st or a 2019 first ..
Check these moves out


Win the lottery .. (not likely but man if we do) Draft Dahlin and trade for Makar .. our D would be set for the next 10 -15 years.. Get a young stud forward ++ in the deal for Karlsson... They would sell tickets

Nice moves....but his body positioning is weird. Can't put my finger quite on it.

 

[Alex1234]

EK has 10 teams that he can't automatically be traded to. EK holds the cards. He could say to the target team that he will go to free agency to test the market thereby reducing his value in a trade with that team.. He could tell Ottawa .. I'd be willing to resign with these 3 or 4 teams so that would reduce the options. Can any of those teams take Ryan?

Ryan also submits a 10 team no trade list... So depending what Karlsson does the number of teams the list could be really small.

If its straight up and EK has no issues with any of the 20 teams available the chances are good that there would be a good number of teams available to both players... If the team gets a deal with a team on one of their lists ... they would ask the player to waive for that team.

Ok thanks

If we trade EK with or without Ryan imho we need a top 6-7 2018 draft pick or better plus other 1st or 2nd plus pieces

So EDM , VAN, MTL, NYR

Picking 2 times in the 1st 6-7 positions would be huge going forward

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

I’d rather get close to NHL ready guys from Vegas than another top 10 pick. Guys like Brannstrom, Glass/Suzuki etc

 

[Que]

Ok thanks

If we trade EK with or without Ryan imho we need a top 6-7 2018 draft pick or better plus other 1st or 2nd plus pieces

So EDM , VAN, MTL, NYR

Picking 2 times in the 1st 6-7 positions would be huge going forward

What if we picked three times? As the speculation stated Montreal could be a 3rd team.

EK to NYR
Bobby Ryan and Lias Andersson to MTL
MTL 1st, NYR 1st, Galchenyuk to Ottawa

 

[Alex1234]

What if we picked three times? As the speculation stated Montreal could be a 3rd team.

EK to NYR
Bobby Ryan and Lias Andersson to MTL
MTL 1st, NYR 1st, Galchenyuk to Ottawa

A dream
1st line for the next 10 years
Sevchnikov-Whalstrom-Tkatchuk lol

 

[Satoru Gojo]

All rebuild related talk here.

We have no idea where this rebuild is going. It could take years, it could take a summer. With a healthy EK on your team you have a legit chance at the Cup every year, if he gets traded we are starting over in every sense - talent wise, leadership wise, marketing, community, trust with the fan base will have to be rebuilt.

#1 priority for Dorion is to get people with integrity and who are respected league wise, to help set a standard of professionalism the club has been missing for a long time, to build trust with the players, rebuild the brand in the community and make Ottawa a destination.

My first move would be to replace Guy Boucher with Luke Richardson. Luke understands the challenges with ownership, he knows the players on the team, he knows management, he's as respected a hockey man as they come....and maybe he bring Tavares with him. He also coached up some of our best players, is a Dman on a team rebuilding it's D, he'll bring in good people and the city and Luke Richardson are already on a 1st name basis.

No screwing around, give him a 5 year contract just to create some stability. Let Luke's values, work ethic and intelligence become the DNA of the Ottawa Senators Hockey Club.

What a horrible idea

 

[Gil Gunderson]

We need someone who knows what he is doing, not a figurehead

Glad we have that now.

 

[Jorge Garcia]

If you want to rebuild it will start with Karlsson's future. If he goes , then the other dominos will fall. Might as well get what you can for Duchene, Stone and Hoffman and hope that a rebuild works, which is a 10% chance of that happening.

For every Pittsburgh, there are ten Edmontons.

Absolutely right. I cringe every time someone says it's a good idea to trade proven talent away and get nothing but magic beans in return. Most propects don't become difference makers. Many draft picks don't even become legitimate prospects. I do not have the patience for a burn-it-down rebuild. Chances are, you won't be able to draft anyone as good as Stone or Duchene, let alone another Karlsson. Fix the weaknesses, don't flush the great assets down the toilet.

 

[JD1]

Absolutely right. I cringe every time someone says it's a good idea to trade proven talent away and get nothing but magic beans in return. Most propects don't become difference makers. Many draft picks don't even become legitimate prospects. I do not have the patience for a burn-it-down rebuild. Chances are, you won't be able to draft anyone as good as Stone or Duchene, let alone another Karlsson. Fix the weaknesses, don't flush the great assets down the toilet.

one issue is the patience to go thru a tear down....the other is whether it is necessary and imo it isn'

Chabot will continue to improve. EK. Chabot. Ceci. Chabot will make others slot down and that will really help.

I didn't like moving Brassard because he's a C but we have so many young Cs coming. Brown. White. Chaplik. Formenton. Batherson. We need 2 of those guys to hit and become top 6 players. We have plenty of pieces up front.

We need goaltending. Maybe Andy has his bounce back year maybe not but you don' tear something apart because of a weakness in one position.

And that doesn't include what we get from this year's draft

 

[dumbdick]

THE PLAN:

We use the draft and an EK trade to get us set up as a well structured team. This consists of a set of great players on ELCs and six solid non-elite core players.

Put an internal salary limit of 7 mil for core players and 5 mil for everybody else. Nobody gets more than that. Anybody who deserves more than that gets traded to stock the stables before they can cash in. Even if we're contending at the time.

Anybody that we can't re-sign gets dealt when their value is high. No nmcs, no ntcs and we sign no deals that are untradeable. We establish an internal signing deadline of Oct 1. Any player that wants to drag out contract talks beyond then, we deal them to a desperate team that is struggling before christmas.

Core(35m):
Goalie (7m)
1c & 2c (12m combined).
Top 6 winger(5m) or 3c (4m)
2 top 4d (11m combined)

Everybody else is ELCs, mid priced UFAs, and above average role players.

Incentive structure:
We sign a lot of two-ways and we keep one roster spot open for a revolving belleville call-up. We use that spot to incentivize the farm and reward players that are performing well in any given month.

Role players are competing against the prospects, ufa replacements and the call-ups. Core players are fighting to stay in the core. Everybody else is fighting to unseat a core player. No bias towards our own draft picks. We seek out the best fit roster options regardless of source.

Numbers might be off but that's the vision. We start now and we can be there in about three years.

 

[jbeck5]

I do find it funny we were saying this core isn't good enough and we have to tear it down. Then talks of trading everyone came up and then we were worried about us tearing apart the team.

We laugh at management being fickle with plans when the whole fanbase is the same.

One big losing streak and it's all doom and gloom.

One big winning streak and all of a sudden we have all the pieces and are good. Fans are just like management.

We need to take it easy and evaluate the team for what it is. Stick to a plan. And then not alter that plan when a streak hits-good or bad.

 

[Bileur]

Absolutely right. I cringe every time someone says it's a good idea to trade proven talent away and get nothing but magic beans in return. Most propects don't become difference makers. Many draft picks don't even become legitimate prospects. I do not have the patience for a burn-it-down rebuild. Chances are, you won't be able to draft anyone as good as Stone or Duchene, let alone another Karlsson. Fix the weaknesses, don't flush the great assets down the toilet.

Agreed. Seeing defensive lineups featuring only Chabot with NHL experience surprises me around here.

I remember well looking at our future behind Karlsson and the consensus around here being that Cowen, Rundblad, Wiercioch and eventually Ceci were all sure fire top 4 guys. Of those four only Ceci worked out and he’s the whipping boy.

Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to add Dahlin to our future stable along with Chabot, and question marks like Jaros, Wolanin, and Summers, but I would rather hang on to our top 4 defensemen until they prove they are able.

If Karlsson goes you have to keep Ceci, at the very least he’ll eat the minutes and shelter the prospects from abuse as he gets owned by other teams top forwards.

 

[Tuna99]

If you rebuild from the net out the Gustavsson trade is a good start.

The D needs a lot of help in the top 4 if we trade Karlsson. the only solid top 4 prospect is Chabot.

 

[Aurilius]

And I think we need to move on from Alfie....at least for awhile. He was a hockey player, not a savior. Like you said, we need to focus on hiring the best, most qualified folks we can. Worry about figureheads after we have a solid management team in place.

 

[HavlatMach9]

I think the first thing to do is make amends with Alfie and make him team president.

Then let him be the face of the franchise. At least, in terms of non players.

he did join management for a while but left so I don't know if he's interested at the moment.