Speculation: Realistically, what would have been a package commensurate with 1-Year of EK65?
- Thread starter Filthy Dangles
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REalistically? Tierney, DeMelo, Norris, Balcers, 1st, 2nd.
I dont get the point of this thread. We speculated for months what he should go for. We found out yesterday what one year of him is realistically worth.
I dont get the point of this thread. We speculated for months what he should go for. We found out yesterday what one year of him is realistically worth.
Tkachuky
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Pierre from Orleans
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But is it commensurate to the value and talent he will provide over 1 year? Everyone is saying Ottawa got fleece and it's a horrible deal. Therefore I am asking what a fair deal might have looked like.
I think TB's deal with NY is a template for the absolute floor. I don't see how or why our offer for Karlsson wouldn't have been at least a little better.
How people value prospects is somewhat subjective, but Howden was a top-3 prospect in our system, probably #2, and our prospect pool, despite a lack of blue chippers, is pretty deep. We have several guys who project to be NHLers, and a few of them, like those two, project(ed) to be impact players.
So, removing JT Miller from the deal, it's reasonable to think TB's offer, at least at the TDL, would have been better than: Howden + Hajek + 1st + Conditional 1st/2nd.
My guess is we'd still throw in Namestnikov. Probably more.
How people value prospects is somewhat subjective, but Howden was a top-3 prospect in our system, probably #2, and our prospect pool, despite a lack of blue chippers, is pretty deep. We have several guys who project to be NHLers, and a few of them, like those two, project(ed) to be impact players.
So, removing JT Miller from the deal, it's reasonable to think TB's offer, at least at the TDL, would have been better than: Howden + Hajek + 1st + Conditional 1st/2nd.
My guess is we'd still throw in Namestnikov. Probably more.
GKG18
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Hunter368
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matt trick
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I'd have been concerned, but would have done:
1st 2020, 2nd 2019, Meier, Norris/Balcers/Merkeley, conditional 1st 2021 (re-signing)
OR
1st 2020, 2nd 2019, Labanc, Norris/Balcers/Merkeley, Braun/Dillon/Demelo, conditional 1st 2021 (re-signing)
1st 2020, 2nd 2019, Meier, Norris/Balcers/Merkeley, conditional 1st 2021 (re-signing)
OR
1st 2020, 2nd 2019, Labanc, Norris/Balcers/Merkeley, Braun/Dillon/Demelo, conditional 1st 2021 (re-signing)
ReginKarlssonLehner
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Sure, we all think they got fleeced. But maybe we are all just out of touch with the value people who do this for a living place on these things.
The reality is this is either
a) the best return he could get or b) the best return he could get based on stipulations he enforced (i.e. didnt want to trade in division, or whatever).
You're never going to get anyone to agree what his realistic value is - because you had people saying point/sergachev+ from Tampa, etc. Wanna know what we thought hed get? go read the old mega threads.
FerrisRox
"Wanna go, Prettyboy?"
That was a discussion the sens needed to have with EK. Cause a tdl trade means 2 playoff runs not just 1, so that ups the price from what SJ paid.
So that’s the part that is confusing for me. Did they talk to EK about all the scenarios? If they trade him in the summer would he want to sign with the new team cause that impacts the return. Did he change his mind since that point in time? Who knows.
But in Feb the sens needed to have a full on discussion with EK about the options. Any move the sens wanted to make would be dependant on EK signing with the new team.
You might be the first person out of the hundreds and hundreds of comments I've read from both fans and media that thinks this. It's pretty much unanimous that this return was very underwhelming.
Erndog
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For that 5 min span where we heard it was SJ and didn't know the actual return I legit thought "okay, so it's gotta be Meier, Merkley and next years 1st plus probably something".
Was shocked when I saw the actual return minutes later
FerrisRox
"Wanna go, Prettyboy?"
Huh?
All I'm saying is I don't think San Jose does the deal unless they have already talked with EK's agent and have the framework for an extension.
Bruce Granville
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I think there's like a 25% chance they do before July 1. I think that's why he was so cheap. It's a risk that they were willing to take.
I think EK might have informed everyone (except Tampa but Ottawa didn't want to trade with them) that he wanted to make it to July 1 and wouldn't re-sign with them before that, so no one else wanted to give up the pieces to beat the underwhelming (from Ott perspective, great from SJ) SJ package.
I think if EK hits FA, then I don't think SJ would have any better or any worse chance than Tampa, Philadelphia, New Jersey, Vegas or even someone/ someones new coming on the scene if he costs nothing but contract dollars.
I'd like to know what we offered in July. I hope somebody finds out. It seems like that deal was done before Melnyk got involved. If it was worse than this deal, then good on Dorion for getting what he could. I just somehow doubt that's the case.
I mean, its pretty common for people to talk frameworks/how interested, etc. But it doesnt look like they were to get anything concrete done - MAxPac's deal was signed like 8 hours after they acquired him, so there was obviously some negotiation there first. But the condition of the conditional pick where if he plays in the east ottawa gets another pick seems to insinuate they didnt have anything done.
This is just my personal opinion so take it with a grain of salt, (and as i type this he's probably watching the ink dry on a contract) but i think EK is gonna test the waters unless he falls in love with san Jose.
"everyone" is full of shit. The value of a player or a car or a house or whatever is the price it commands on the open market. Period.
If a better deal had been offered by any other western conference team, EK would not have become a Shark. What is so difficult to understand about this?
AveryStar4Eva
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As much as Ottawa got crapped on yesterday (including by me), I’m sure they took the best package offered to them so they did the right thing by taking it. It was well know that Karlsson was on the trade block all summer. It seems like he wasn’t willing to re-sign right away which killed his trade value. From the Stars I said the deal would have had to be this;
Dellandra (2018 1st)
Honka (2014 1st, 3rd pair)
2019 1st
2020 2nd
Shore (2012 2nd, 3rd liner)
Caamano (2015 5th)
Conditional picks
Three 1sts and two 2nds is a lot for a player that may leave. Even though there is a chance that all of these pieces could amount to nothing it’s a lot to trade, particularly when you could get a deadline rental for cheaper.
Dellandra (2018 1st)
Honka (2014 1st, 3rd pair)
2019 1st
2020 2nd
Shore (2012 2nd, 3rd liner)
Caamano (2015 5th)
Conditional picks
Three 1sts and two 2nds is a lot for a player that may leave. Even though there is a chance that all of these pieces could amount to nothing it’s a lot to trade, particularly when you could get a deadline rental for cheaper.
Even if they did, if that's what Dorrion decided was the best deal out there... then it is what it is.
It's no different then someone selling a house. You can ask whatever you want for it... but at the end of the day, you're only going to get what others are willing to pay. And for EK, Dorrion decided that out of the offers he was getting, SJs was the best offer. Personally I'm not really sure how someone didn't beat it, but I guess they didn't or PD would have moved EK somewhere else.
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