Realistically, how do you fix this team

ucanthanzalthetruth

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Jul 13, 2013
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I think becoming a Panther automatically makes you content with losing. Even Bob's comments post-series were it's a good learning experience as we build for the future, he's been here 1 year and already poisoned. Huberdeau saying thanks for a great year, Barkov talking about how much he enjoyed the "playoff" appearance. They're content with getting dummied in a playoff they didn't deserve to be in. You read Matthews quotes saying he's embarrassed, Eichel saying he started the year expecting to make a 16 team playoff and to not qualify for a 24 team playoff is unacceptable...

Like guys at least pretend you're upset.
 

SoupyFIN

#OneTerritory
Nov 7, 2011
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According to cap friendly only hubs, Yandle, and bob have nmc, I believe
Barkov has one too for 2020-21, then it drops down to a modified NTC for 2021-22 (12 team no trade list).

Acciari has a modified NTC (1o team no list)
Stralman has same (except 16 teams)
 

KW

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This team is not fixable. It just sucks, and things never change.

I wonder if the fan base is fixable. I don’t have much of a high road to be speaking from, because I was stupid enough to renew my season tickets. But now I know that this abusive relationship will end after the upcoming season, whatever form it takes, whenever it ends.

It sucks to be both the laughing stock and the punching bag. Frigging bunch of no-good p***yes.
 
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16Skippy

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Looking at Capfriendly, I don’t see how we can fix this team for next year. No one is going to touch those Bob, Covi-19 and Stralman contracts. We’re likely losing at least one of Dadanov or Hoffman but still won’t have cap space to do much.

Our only hope is for Bob to get his game together, and Q to remember he is a coach and not just a fun Uncle.
 

BeezKnees

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Jun 4, 2010
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Looking at Capfriendly, I don’t see how we can fix this team for next year. No one is going to touch those Bob, Covi-19 and Stralman contracts. We’re likely losing at least one of Dadanov or Hoffman but still won’t have cap space to do much.

Our only hope is for Bob to get his game together, and Q to remember he is a coach and not just a fun Uncle.

Yandle is definitely the number one target that has to be moved imo. He has the offensive point totals to where he will still be seen as valuable to another team. We save the cap space on him rather than wasting it on a 3rd pairing pp specialist. Then we need to find a dman who's both tough to play against and is legitimately good at defending and fits Q's style/ team needs more. I think something like that can go a long way.
 
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Pigge

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I think becoming a Panther automatically makes you content with losing. Even Bob's comments post-series were it's a good learning experience as we build for the future, he's been here 1 year and already poisoned. Huberdeau saying thanks for a great year, Barkov talking about how much he enjoyed the "playoff" appearance. They're content with getting dummied in a playoff they didn't deserve to be in. You read Matthews quotes saying he's embarrassed, Eichel saying he started the year expecting to make a 16 team playoff and to not qualify for a 24 team playoff is unacceptable...

Like guys at least pretend you're upset.
Not that I disagree, but it hasn't done much for Matthews or Eichel either so far.

This team is not fixable. It just sucks, and things never change.

I wonder if the fan base is fixable. I don’t have much of a high road to be speaking from, because I was stupid enough to renew my season tickets. But now I know that this abusive relationship will end after the upcoming season, whatever form it takes, whenever it ends.

It sucks to be both the laughing stock and the punching bag. Frigging bunch of no-good p***yes.
If the fans show up when the team is losing, there is no need to fix the fan base. If you are just in it for the odd championship you will be miserable most of the time no matter what. As a fan you can just enjoy being part of the family and savor every game, and you will be much happier.
 

PSLguy

#TimeToHunt
Jan 14, 2013
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This team is not fixable. It just sucks, and things never change.

I wonder if the fan base is fixable. I don’t have much of a high road to be speaking from, because I was stupid enough to renew my season tickets. But now I know that this abusive relationship will end after the upcoming season, whatever form it takes, whenever it ends.

It sucks to be both the laughing stock and the punching bag. Frigging bunch of no-good p***yes.
Unfortunately we renewed as well. Maybe no fans will be allowed at games this year and we'll both get a refund!
 

SoupyFIN

#OneTerritory
Nov 7, 2011
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Yandle is definitely the number one target that has to be moved imo. He has the offensive point totals to where he will still be seen as valuable to another team. We save the cap space on him rather than wasting it on a 3rd pairing pp specialist. Then we need to find a dman who's both tough to play against and is legitimately good at defending and fits Q's style/ team needs more. I think something like that can go a long way.
PP1 is going to take a hit if we do nothing to replace Yandle though. Who are we putting there, Ekblad (who hasn't been the primary puck handler since his OHL days), Barkov (which would take away our best net front presence and worse below the goal line / around the dot on the other side) or Denisenko (great passer, but he's a rookie). Weegar I can't see (passing not good enough) and I think Huby is at his best below the goal line and around the dot.

It's going to take a hit anyway since we're losing Hoffman, Dadonov, or both, unless Tippett and Denisenko jump straight in without issues (which could happen, but nothing to bet on). Losing Yandle on top of those two? Yeah, we're probably going to have a bottom5 PP next season.
 
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Jean Luc Discard

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PP1 is going to take a hit if we do nothing to replace Yandle though. Who are we putting there, Ekblad (who hasn't been the primary puck handler since his OHL days), Barkov (which would take away our best net front presence and worse below the goal line / around the dot on the other side) or Denisenko (great passer, but he's a rookie). Weegar I can't see (passing not good enough) and I think Huby is at his best below the goal line and around the dot.

It's going to take a hit anyway since we're losing Hoffman, Dadonov, or both, unless Tippett and Denisenko jump straight in without issues (which could happen, but nothing to bet on). Losing Yandle on top of those two? Yeah, we're probably going to have a bottom5 PP next season.







Yeah... more than happy to unload this gunk from the roster and let Ekblad do the tasks that he's paid to do. For an instance, no one in the Bolts' board is crying about that they need a dedicated sonk-man at the blue line even though Hedman is more than capable of doing that job already.
 
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blinky67

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Jan 12, 2013
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PP1 is going to take a hit if we do nothing to replace Yandle though. Who are we putting there, Ekblad (who hasn't been the primary puck handler since his OHL days), Barkov (which would take away our best net front presence and worse below the goal line / around the dot on the other side) or Denisenko (great passer, but he's a rookie). Weegar I can't see (passing not good enough) and I think Huby is at his best below the goal line and around the dot.

It's going to take a hit anyway since we're losing Hoffman, Dadonov, or both, unless Tippett and Denisenko jump straight in without issues (which could happen, but nothing to bet on). Losing Yandle on top of those two? Yeah, we're probably going to have a bottom5 PP next season.

Ekblad should be more than sufficient running PP1. His passing is close to Yandle's plus he has a shot which opens up a few more options compared to Yandle's fake slapper. The bigger hole would be filling the hole Hoff and/or Dadonov leave.
 
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TheImpatientPanther

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Yeah... more than happy to unload this gunk from the roster and let Ekblad do the tasks that he's paid to do. For an instance, no one in the Bolts' board is crying about that they need a dedicated sonk-man at the blue line even though Hedman is more than capable of doing that job already.



How will we replace someone who does the heavy lifting on the PP and the fancy behind the back passes?

Looks like Huberdeau has already nailed that part down, probably learned it from Yandle.

And some say Huberdeau can't complete some of these passes Yandle is doing in this clip?
 

BeezKnees

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PP1 is going to take a hit if we do nothing to replace Yandle though. Who are we putting there, Ekblad (who hasn't been the primary puck handler since his OHL days), Barkov (which would take away our best net front presence and worse below the goal line / around the dot on the other side) or Denisenko (great passer, but he's a rookie). Weegar I can't see (passing not good enough) and I think Huby is at his best below the goal line and around the dot.

It's going to take a hit anyway since we're losing Hoffman, Dadonov, or both, unless Tippett and Denisenko jump straight in without issues (which could happen, but nothing to bet on). Losing Yandle on top of those two? Yeah, we're probably going to have a bottom5 PP next season.

The new GM and Q are going to have to decide on what our identity going forward will be. Are we going to be a dangerous offensive team that relies on scoring and PP but plays poorly on defense? Or are we going to sacrifice some of our offense and scoring to improve our defensive play in front of Bobrovsky? It's a tough question honestly. Our identity lately has been the first option and it clearly isn't working. I think we need more balance.
 
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Pigge

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How will we replace someone who does the heavy lifting on the PP and the fancy behind the back passes?

Looks like Huberdeau has already nailed that part down, probably learned it from Yandle.

And some say Huberdeau can't complete some of these passes Yandle is doing in this clip?
Nice video. Wouldn't it be a waste to have Huberdeau as the QB though? As shown in that clip, Yandle mostly goes east-west and distributes the puck to Huberdeau and Hoffman which requires solid but simple puck skills. Huberdeau does things with a higher level of difficulty from his spot, including shooting and passing through the box to Hoffman.
 

Jean Luc Discard

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How will we replace someone who does the heavy lifting on the PP and the fancy behind the back passes?

Looks like Huberdeau has already nailed that part down, probably learned it from Yandle.

And some say Huberdeau can't complete some of these passes Yandle is doing in this clip?


Hubs would be fine on that role. I don't see anything magical that only Yandle can do on the PP.

I guess we can speculate with the what-ifs but we don't know until we've tried it and, more importantly, the payroll structure doesn't recommend this scenario anymore. If Yandle was a $1.5mil plug for the PP then I'd be fine with him, as long as he doesn't step on to the ice in any other circumstance beside the PP. Bolts have a similar case in Shattenkirk and he's playing himself out of the lineup as far as I know. I really can't stress this enough: Yandle is a major fookin' liability out there, on and off the ice.
 

TheImpatientPanther

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Nice video. Wouldn't it be a waste to have Huberdeau as the QB though? As shown in that clip, Yandle mostly goes east-west and distributes the puck to Huberdeau and Hoffman which requires solid but simple puck skills. Huberdeau does things with a higher level of difficulty from his spot, including shooting and passing through the box to Hoffman.

You'd have Ekblad there to switch off so Huberdeau could come down side wall and roam, curl back to set up Ekblad for a rip or attract attention along side wall (his normal spot) and open passing lanes for a pass to open man waiting on one timer (Hoff).

Barkov stays down low to set up triangle offense behind the net or comes out front for jam play/screen option.

The article I will post below relies on good passing, one timers/quick release and shots from the dots or lower.
Barkov and Huberdeau are elite passers and most of the goals would be scored below the dots feeding Hoffman/Tippett/Connolly/Vatrano or Barkov and Huberdeau can score themselves if given a chance. Id rather have Ekblads shot from the point for a different look like @blinky67 said.

How Power Play Goals are Scored in the NHL - The Hockey Think Tank

Is Yandles passing worth $6.35 million and nobody else can do what he does? There are PPs that run off the side wall and the point.

Hubs would be fine on that role. I don't see anything magical that only Yandle can do on the PP.

I guess we can speculate with the what-ifs but we don't know until we've tried it and, more importantly, the payroll structure doesn't recommend this scenario anymore. If Yandle was a $1.5mil plug for the PP then I'd be fine with him, as long as he doesn't step on to the ice in any other circumstance beside the PP. Bolts have a similar case in Shattenkirk and he's playing himself out of the lineup as far as I know. I really can't stress this enough: Yandle is a major fookin' liability out there, on and off the ice.

Oh I was being sarcastic AF. I agree, some are overthinking how hard Yandles job is on the PP.
 
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batting1k

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I think becoming a Panther automatically makes you content with losing. Even Bob's comments post-series were it's a good learning experience as we build for the future, he's been here 1 year and already poisoned. Huberdeau saying thanks for a great year, Barkov talking about how much he enjoyed the "playoff" appearance. They're content with getting dummied in a playoff they didn't deserve to be in. You read Matthews quotes saying he's embarrassed, Eichel saying he started the year expecting to make a 16 team playoff and to not qualify for a 24 team playoff is unacceptable...

Like guys at least pretend you're upset.

Exactly what I’ve been saying
 

Pigge

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You'd have Ekblad there to switch off so Huberdeau could come down side wall and roam, curl back to set up Ekblad for a rip or attract attention along side wall (his normal spot) and open passing lanes for a pass to open man waiting on one timer (Hoff).

Barkov stays down low to set up triangle offense behind the net or comes out front for jam play/screen option.

The article I will post below relies on good passing, one timers/quick release and shots from the dots or lower.
Barkov and Huberdeau are elite passers and most of the goals would be scored below the dots feeding Hoffman/Tippett/Connolly/Vatrano or Barkov and Huberdeau can score themselves if given a chance. Id rather have Ekblads shot from the point for a different look like you said.

How Power Play Goals are Scored in the NHL - The Hockey Think Tank

Is Yandles passing worth $6.35 million and nobody else can do what he does? There are PPs that run off the side wall and the point.
Very interesting article. It suggests that the Panthers are doing something right in not trying to set up shots from the point. Encouraging! So if anything, Ekblad could be nice as a shooter on the left side. I like that Ekblad hasn't been forced to carry the load on PP though, as he does 5v5 and PK. He's still a child and could suffer with too much responsibility for both defense and offense.

I wonder if Huberdeau would be comfortable on the right side. Does he have a one-timer? He doesn't get a lot of chances to show it off.

My objection to dumping Yandle is that the PP does work, so any change is risky. But if Hoffman and/or Dadonov leave anyway, changes will have to be made so then Yandle wouldn't be as untouchable.
 

Howboutthempanthers

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How will we replace someone who does the heavy lifting on the PP and the fancy behind the back passes?

Looks like Huberdeau has already nailed that part down, probably learned it from Yandle.

And some say Huberdeau can't complete some of these passes Yandle is doing in this clip?

On a side note: A problem that's plagued this team for a while. They're all pretty stationary, or more specifically they don't move their feet, stationary or just coasting. Nobody skates. It doesn't matter if you're not he best skater, mostly what matters is that you actually do skate. This is what's so frustrating for me, it's the simplest things that they don't do, that are well within their control, that would make a big impact. It's probably the difference between them and these teams still playing in the playoffs. And has been so for a few years now.

It's that "soft" problem with this team. That's what makes you soft, when you don't move your feet, and just want to just fling the puck around the ice. And it makes an even worse impact on defense. You're just a stationary target.

The opponent decides when you need to pass the puck, that's after your path the net has been stopped. Don't just wait in one spot and try to draw the defense to you and hope that opens up space. They play like a European team on bigger ice. That won't get them anywhere on the smaller ice surface. They've managed to put up some offense with it. But when it matters, that will easily get shut down. They're never going to go anywhere like that as a team.

It just shows that they do have some skill that they managed to put up offense, even though they're not playing the game the right way. It's so frustrating to just think if they actually did play the game the right way.

If it's one thing I want to change about this team, it's that (non skating, easy to play against). That's their identity, unfortunately. I really hate that about this team, hate it. Their identity should be the opposite of that. They should be the hardest working, hardest skating team on the ice every night. There's nothing this franchise has, they should be out there working hard to gain something. To get some respect. Instead having this soft, easy to play against team, laughable collection of players the opponent faces compared to most nights in this league.

They play like they've accomplished so much in this league already as a team. When they have accomplished nothing.

End of rant.
 
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Pigge

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The new GM and Q are going to have to decide on what our identity going forward will be. Are we going to be a dangerous offensive team that relies on scoring and PP but plays poorly on defense? Or are we going to sacrifice some of our offense and scoring to improve our defensive play in front of Bobrovsky? It's a tough question honestly. Our identity lately has been the first option and it clearly isn't working. I think we need more balance.
Is it that clear that it isn't working? I don't think that identity is entirely clear through the entire team. It's obvious for the top line, and sometimes the second line when they split up Barkov and Huberdeau. But the third and fourth line seem a bit confused. I think it will be hard to turn Huberdeau and Barkov into Tortorella players. I believe the best option would be to try to get a Vigneault possession identity that worked with the Sedins in Vancouver.
 

TheImpatientPanther

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Very interesting article. It suggests that the Panthers are doing something right in not trying to set up shots from the point. Encouraging! So if anything, Ekblad could be nice as a shooter on the left side. I like that Ekblad hasn't been forced to carry the load on PP though, as he does 5v5 and PK. He's still a child and could suffer with too much responsibility for both defense and offense.

I wonder if Huberdeau would be comfortable on the right side. Does he have a one-timer? He doesn't get a lot of chances to show it off.

My objection to dumping Yandle is that the PP does work, so any change is risky. But if Hoffman and/or Dadonov leave anyway, changes will have to be made so then Yandle wouldn't be as untouchable.

Ekblad average around 4-5 goals and 10-11 pts on the PP in his first couple years, his puck-handling and just general offensive IQ has got better.

Yandle was pacing 25 PP points this year but anyone thinking he will produce something similar to 39 PP pts in '17-18 is just unsustainable. He averages around 23 PP pts over his career, is it crazy to think Ekblad can't chase at least 17-18 pts on the PP if we re-sign Hoff along with Bark and Huby?

Its time to give him a shot on the PP and give some of his PK time to someone else, we don't want one of our most important players blocking extra shots when bottom 6 guys are capable.

Hoff will be in the right dot and you can slide Ekblad down in left dot for one timer when Huberdeau slides up to the point feeding either way.
Huberdeau is the teams best playmaker in my opinion and can adapt to roaming along the blue line or switch with Ekblad to his side wall spot.

Yes it seems lateral passing to one timers below the dots is the ideal solution to scoring. If you move Yandle and bring in a cheaper 2nd/3rd pair guy, you can re-sign Hoffman and put Ekblad as point/side wall one timer option.
Eventually you have Barkov, Huberdeau, Hoffman, Tippett and Ekblad as your top PP unit, the 2nd unit barely sees time anyhow.

On a side note: A problem that's plagued this team for a while. They're all pretty stationary, or more specifically they don't move their feet, stationary or just coasting. Nobody skates. It doesn't matter if you're not he best skater, mostly what matters is that you actually do skate. This is what's so frustrating for me, it's the simplest things that they don't do, that are well within their control, that would make a big impact. It's probably the difference between them and these teams still playing in the playoffs. And has been so for a few years now.

It's that "soft" problem with this team. That's what makes you soft, when you don't move your feet, and just want to just fling the puck around the ice. And it makes an even worse impact on defense. You're just a stationary target.

The opponent decides when you need to pass the puck, that's after your path the net has been stopped. Don't just wait in one spot and try to draw the defense to you and hope that opens up space. They play like a European team on bigger ice. That won't get them anywhere on the smaller ice surface. They've managed to put up some offense with it. But when it matters, that will easily get shut down. They're never going to go anywhere like that as a team.

It just shows that they do have some skill that they managed to put up offense, even though they're not playing the game the right way. It's so frustrating to just think if they actually did play the game the right way.

If it's one thing I want to change about this team, it's that (non skating, easy to play against). That's their identity, unfortunately. I really hate that about this team, hate it. Their identity should be the opposite of that. They should be the hardest working, hardest skating team on the ice every night. There's nothing this franchise has, they should be out there working hard to gain something. To get some respect. Instead having this soft, easy to play against team, laughable collection of players the opponent faces compared to most nights in this league.

They play like they've accomplished so much in this league already as a team. When they have accomplished nothing.

End of rant.

Loved the rant and agree with it, this isnt just on the PP but 5 on 5 in general whether fore/back-checking, general support leaving DZ through NZ to limit turnovers. Their isnt enough intensity and effort on a consistent basis.

I remember at start of year, players were saying how high/up-tempo Q's practices were but they clearly didn't play how they practiced then.

Watching the Isles, they dont even play a complicated system, just full of support from DZ through NZ. They spread out the defenses once in the OZ and just force teams to play one on one, win battles keeping it down low and then throw it out front for a jam play/rebound/one timer chance.
Now when Barzal is on the ice, its more puck possession and the D all zero in on him opening lanes for his teammates driving to the net.

Their passes aren't telegraphed or hard in the OZ/DZ, again, they're always spread out and have softer but accurate passes, never any blind drop passes or dump sans the chase part.

Just to pile on, we reset our PP so much at the blue line and how many times does the puck bounce over Yandle/others stick, its maddening.
Also Hoff shot is so telegraphed but luckily he has a rocket to overcome it.
Hence why we need just Barkov and Huberdeau on the PP passing and 3 shooters who are selfish looking to put it on net.
 

SoupyFIN

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Ekblad should be more than sufficient running PP1. His passing is close to Yandle's plus he has a shot which opens up a few more options compared to Yandle's fake slapper. The bigger hole would be filling the hole Hoff and/or Dadonov leave.
"Should be" is just another if added to the list of if's with this team that's already long to begin with.

Look, I get that it's time to move on from Yandle, and I agree with that decision. My issue with it however is, that at no point have we tried how the alternatives work in his spot. Usually when you're phasing out a veteran, you give the younger player a chance to show what he can do. If Yandle gets dealt before December (offseason sounds weird), we won't have that luxury. Ekblad or whoever it is that takes his spot gets thrown to the deep end straight away, and that's nervous for a team that's meant to be contending for a playoff spot.

I actually think filling Hoffman's spot is much easier with Tippett around, him being a rightie creates more versatility as well. Dadonov doesn't have a direct replacement (idk about putting Tippett and Denisenko on the same unit, maybe let Denisenko run the second unit?), but I would like them to try a pure net front presence (Noel comes to mind, assuming he makes the roster), we haven't had one since Kopecky left and he was pretty underrated at that.
 

Pigge

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Ekblad average around 4-5 goals and 10-11 pts on the PP in his first couple years, his puck-handling and just general offensive IQ has got better.

Yandle was pacing 25 PP points this year but anyone thinking he will produce something similar to 39 PP pts in '17-18 is just unsustainable. He averages around 23 PP pts over his career, is it crazy to think Ekblad can't chase at least 17-18 pts on the PP if we re-sign Hoff along with Bark and Huby?

Its time to give him a shot on the PP and give some of his PK time to someone else, we don't want one of our most important players blocking extra shots when bottom 6 guys are capable.

Hoff will be in the right dot and you can slide Ekblad down in left dot for one timer when Huberdeau slides up to the point feeding either way.
Huberdeau is the teams best playmaker in my opinion and can adapt to roaming along the blue line or switch with Ekblad to his side wall spot.

Yes it seems lateral passing to one timers below the dots is the ideal solution to scoring. If you move Yandle and bring in a cheaper 2nd/3rd pair guy, you can re-sign Hoffman and put Ekblad as point/side wall one timer option.
Eventually you have Barkov, Huberdeau, Hoffman, Tippett and Ekblad as your top PP unit, the 2nd unit barely sees time anyhow.
Ekblad is better than most PK options, so it would be questionable to give his PK time to someone slightly worse in order to give him more PP time from someone slightly better. It's fine if he can handle the extra minutes, but not if it means making the already iffy PK worse.

Is Hoffman that much better than Yandle? Is it really easier to hide a one-trick pony on a non-scoring non-checking line than in the third D-pair? I think both of them offer the same problem with establishing a winning 5v5 playing style. If the team is supposed to be better on defense, it's probably most important that the forwards get better at playing team defense. Would Hoffman contribute consistently there?
 

16Skippy

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Yandle is definitely the number one target that has to be moved imo. He has the offensive point totals to where he will still be seen as valuable to another team. We save the cap space on him rather than wasting it on a 3rd pairing pp specialist. Then we need to find a dman who's both tough to play against and is legitimately good at defending and fits Q's style/ team needs more. I think something like that can go a long way.

I agree that Yandle will be more desirable to other teams but he has a NTC and I don’t know if he’s likely to waive it during his retirement tour. He seems to like it in Florida.
 

Jean Luc Discard

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"Should be" is just another if added to the list of if's with this team that's already long to begin with.

I actually think filling Hoffman's spot is much easier with Tippett around, him being a rightie creates more versatility as well.

Don't these contradict each other?

Is Hoffman that much better than Yandle? Is it really easier to hide a one-trick pony on a non-scoring non-checking line than in the third D-pair?

The Cats' PP% in 2016-17 and 2017-18, Yandle's first two season with the Cats: 17.0% and 18.9%
The same for Hoffman's first two seasons with the Cats, 2018-19 and 2019-20: 26.8% and 21-3%

Hoffman might be a one-trick pony but it's a very good one. Before Hoff's arrival, and after the departure of Smith and March, the Panthers have had difficulty of scoring with relative ease especially on the PP. Yandle didn't move the needle on the PP% so statistically speaking aka moneypuck-wise he hasn't been a major (or maybe even a minor) factor for the recent improvement of the PP.

Guys like Hoffman will get paid, a lot, because the league still places a huge premium for scoring and the Cats will be sorely missing that element if Hoffman decides to sell his services for another team.
 

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