Realignment Idea Proposal!

[AttackSound]

I agree with most here that there probably isn’t any meaningful realignment on the horizon in the near future.

However, awhile back I put forth a realignment idea that was an attempt to correct some of the power imbalance between the conferences (although for the first time in a long time, it looks like the Eastern Conference has the best teams this year).

I suggested doing away with the divisions and having 2 conferences: the Northwest Conference and the Southeast Conference

NW

SSM
Sby
NB
Sag
Flt
Sar
Wsr
Ldn
OS
Bar


SE

Kit
Gue
Ham
Nia
Erie
Miss
Osh
Pbo
Kgn
Ott


I know it looks strange; a team like London would travel through Kitchener and Guelph for an intra-conference game in Barrie for example. However, they already roll through Hamilton and Niagara for intra-conference games against Erie.

Rival teams that are now in separate conferences can still play extra games against each other during the regular season in an unbalanced schedule, much like Owen Sound and Barrie currently do. As has been previously stated, the OHL doesn’t seem to have any problem whatsoever with an unbalanced schedule.

On the plus side, adding a few traditionally strong franchises in Kitchener and Guelph to the old eastern bloc of teams would likely increase parity across the conferences. In addition, I kind of like the possibility of having a Kitchener vs London or Barrie vs Niagara final.

I really wouldn't say it's an unbalanced schedule in the case of Owen Sound and Barrie.

Where the balance plays an effect is travel, even at the most direct route Owen Sound and Sault Ste Marie is nearly an 8 hour trek one way. Making it nearly and almost economically impossible to make have both the Hounds and Attack play 4-6 times a year.

And from a fan perspective the rivalry between Owen Sound and Barrie is far more exciting for both cities 6 times in a season split between the two cities then what would be if Owen Sound and Sault Ste Marie.

There are very few scenarios that would be feasible to the current conference system that is in place.

Even if you could changed the conferences into a north and south style division there's still a lot of juggling of how teams would draw up schedules.

The only realistic way to change any sort of conference or divisional order would have to be through expansion of the league which would have to be done by adding and granting additional teams in each current conference this would mean the expansion into the U.S. to some degree and with limited options that could make for a logical choice to expand the league, the only other option would be to return to old league markets.

Cornwall- too far and the arena would need massive renovations

Brantford - possible but with the building standards of today's OHL even the city has bowed out to trying to attract a team back.

Syracuse- would be a interest but with an AHL team there there really would be a limited interest in the OHL.

All have been discussed in another thread on here with plenty of scenarios but, however no real facility or logical travel schedule that would make sense.

You could shuffle the current teams around dozens of times and end up where they are now with some minor degree of change but would still end up where everyone is now.

 

[Hammer9001]

The only real alignment I can see happening is Hamilton and Mississauga swapping. I think a division overhaul just isn't in the cards right now, as I don't see any of the Mid-West division wanting change nor can you realistically change the West division without causing a lot more travel pain to Soo, Flint and Saginaw.

As far as Hamilton and Mississauga swapping, it does produce a net travel reduction for the league if they change divisions, as the entire east division benefits, as does Niagara, all enjoying around a 55km travel reduction, as well as benefiting Hamilton. This of course comes at the cost of making it 55 km harder for Sudbury, North Bay and Barrie and likely slightly harder for Mississauga who would be a mixed bag (some drives easier, some harder). So a net 6 teams benefit at the cost of 4 teams detriment.

Now that said, Sudbury and North Bay are two of the teams with the hardest travel schedules so you generally want to accommodate them, but that also said, Kingston and Ottawa are up there too.

Also of note, does a realign help Mississauga help with their attendance woes? That I don't know. I don't know if Oshawa, Peterborough would be a more natural rivalry for the Steelheads then Niagara and Barrie. It probably would help Hamilton, as apart from Kitchener and London, Niagara is probably gives the Bulldogs the best away attendance, and I'd presume Niagara probably benefits too when Hamilton is in town.

Just my thoughts on realignment.

 

[Marj44]

Edit: Delete.

 

[Captain Crash]

Brantford - possible but with the building standards of today's OHL even the city has bowed out to trying to attract a team back.

Officials in Brantford have very recently begun exploring renovating or replacing the Civic Centre specifically with the intent of luring an OHL team.

 

[Otto]

The only real alignment I can see happening is Hamilton and Mississauga swapping. I think a division overhaul just isn't in the cards right now, as I don't see any of the Mid-West division wanting change nor can you realistically change the West division without causing a lot more travel pain to Soo, Flint and Saginaw.

As far as Hamilton and Mississauga swapping, it does produce a net travel reduction for the league if they change divisions, as the entire east division benefits, as does Niagara, all enjoying around a 55km travel reduction, as well as benefiting Hamilton. This of course comes at the cost of making it 55 km harder for Sudbury, North Bay and Barrie and likely slightly harder for Mississauga who would be a mixed bag (some drives easier, some harder). So a net 6 teams benefit at the cost of 4 teams detriment.

Now that said, Sudbury and North Bay are two of the teams with the hardest travel schedules so you generally want to accommodate them, but that also said, Kingston and Ottawa are up there too.

Also of note, does a realign help Mississauga help with their attendance woes? That I don't know. I don't know if Barrie, Peterborough would be a more natural rivalry for the Steelheads then Niagara and Barrie. It probably would help Hamilton, as apart from Kitchener and London, Niagara is probably gives the Bulldogs the best away attendance.

Just my thoughts on realignment.

If Mississauga couldn't draw with their main rival 10 minutes away it won't matter who you put in their division

 

[AttackSound]

Officials in Brantford have very recently begun exploring renovating or replacing the Civic Centre specifically with the intent of luring an OHL team.

That is true however in a recent article in the Brantford newspaper a few weeks back that the city has pulled out of chasing the OHL.

 

[tony d]

Many thanks for sharing this. You have 4 5 team divisions. If I'm doing a schedule for that I'd go 6 games vs. divisional rivals, 4 games vs. conference rivals. 2 games vs. the 10 teams in the other conference. That would be 64 games there.

 

[OMG67]

Can we stop this?

I know everyone thinks they have the magic solution no one has considered.

The reality is if the league cared about it they'd make a change.

The reality is it is rare that anyone take everything into consideration. Therefore there is always data missing in virtually every scenario proposed that would tank the proposal.

The league has a mandate to take care of education first and foremost. That means games clustered on weekends, an unbalanced schedule to reduce mileage and a concentration on intra-division games sold more as rivalries.

The league is not concerned with the difference between Hamilton and Mississauga divisional alignment and the 55km's between them. They are not concerned with how close Erie is to Niagara because they set up rivalry schedule to accommodate. Same with Sudbury and SSM, and Barrie and Owen Sound.

The league is doing what they feel is best for the players and teams in general. They don't care if one year Sudbury sucks and SSM gets a couple extra easy wins while playing a powerhouse Erie team two less games.

So if the league doesn't care or doesn't think it is a concern, why should we?

 

[Ward Cornell]

Can we stop this?

I know everyone thinks they have the magic solution no one has considered.

The reality is if the league cared about it they'd make a change.

The reality is it is rare that anyone take everything into consideration. Therefore there is always data missing in virtually every scenario proposed that would tank the proposal.

The league has a mandate to take care of education first and foremost. That means games clustered on weekends, an unbalanced schedule to reduce mileage and a concentration on intra-division games sold more as rivalries.

The league is not concerned with the difference between Hamilton and Mississauga divisional alignment and the 55km's between them. They are not concerned with how close Erie is to Niagara because they set up rivalry schedule to accommodate. Same with Sudbury and SSM, and Barrie and Owen Sound.

The league is doing what they feel is best for the players and teams in general. They don't care if one year Sudbury sucks and SSM gets a couple extra easy wins while playing a powerhouse Erie team two less games.

So if the league doesn't care or doesn't think it is a concern, why should we?

Why??......we're fans aka consumers!

 

[Tarantula]

Why??......we're fans aka consumers!

True enough, but OMG67 raised many a fine point. There is no real alignment solution that does not include a unbalanced schedule, and some spots where close teams need to be split. The unbalanced sched allows Sault and Sudbury to take advantage as close neighbours while each retains different division rivals, cutting down travel time, co$t as well. While relatively close to each other, the rest of their individual travel during the rest of the season is best suited for the conferences they play. Look at a good map of the area the league covers, and how highway access varies. Plus a nice big lake to drive around the Michigan and Sault area.

Many teams have no direct route to Owen Sound, Sault. Hell, even Barrie has to have many teams drive through the GTA to hook up with the 400, so spaces on a map mean very little in most cases. Not at all like how the crow flies.

I drive through these areas, to OHL games, the odd Jr C game (horrible snowstorm coming home from Midland, flash one at that), and occasionally do work calls north of the GTA.

There really is no majic solution, balanced sched, even travel, etc. Someone will always seem to be hard done by!

 

[OMG67]

Why??......we're fans aka consumers!

99.9% of fans don’t go to out of town games so they consume what comes to them. The vast majority of those fans don’t care if SSM comes to town one time less and Erie comes to town one time more.

So, really, you as a consumer still get your 34 home games per season. Will the average OS fan stop going to home games because Hamilton is in the East Division and Mississauga is in the Central? Let’s be realistic with respect to consumer choice arguements.

 

[three dog night]

Officials in Brantford have very recently begun exploring renovating or replacing the Civic Centre specifically with the intent of luring an OHL team.

Heard they quashed it.

 

[Captain Crash]

Heard they quashed it.

Sort of. They quashed paying for it. They want the potential relocation team to fund the study.

 

[View from section 9]

Sort of. They quashed paying for it. They want the potential relocation team to fund the study.

Well that completely rules out North Bay

 

[three dog night]

Has a Niagara fan I wish they cut the Erie games to four so we can play Oshawa at least four times instead of just twice.

 

[WaW]

Has a Niagara fan I wish they cut the Erie games to four so we can play Oshawa at least four times instead of just twice.

does Niagara not play Missy 8 to balance out Barrie Sudbury and NB all playing each other 8? If so, I feel like that would be worth cutting from 8 to 6 lol.

 

[three dog night]

does Niagara not play Missy 8 to balance out Barrie Sudbury and NB all playing each other 8? If so, I feel like that would be worth cutting from 8 to 6 lol.

Nope only play Missy six times since Belleville moved to Hamilton.

 

[Hammer9001]

If Mississauga couldn't draw with their main rival 10 minutes away it won't matter who you put in their division

Yeah, but that leads to an entirely different problem, which is over-saturation. No one from Brampton was going to see the Steelheads, despite being 10 minutes away and vice versa. I'd say generally you'd ideally want your rivals close enough where a fan can drive there and back without staying overnight, but not so close that they draw away from your market.

 

[Millpond]

99.9% of fans don’t go to out of town games so they consume what comes to them. The vast majority of those fans don’t care if SSM comes to town one time less and Erie comes to town one time more.

So, really, you as a consumer still get your 34 home games per season. Will the average OS fan stop going to home games because Hamilton is in the East Division and Mississauga is in the Central? Let’s be realistic with respect to consumer choice arguements.

True.
I go to watch the Attack .

 

[hardclimate]

Even though it's four lanes all the way, the Niagara to North Bay trip seems worthy of reconsideration, especially in winter. Would NB, Sudbury, Barrie, OS and Missy be any better?

 

[AttackSound]

Even though it's four lanes all the way, the Niagara to North Bay trip seems worthy of reconsideration, especially in winter. Would NB, Sudbury, Barrie, OS and Missy be any better?

In theory, the idea of a true Midwest division with Barrie, Missy, N. Bay, OS and Sudbury wouldn't be any worse then what's in place now assuming you use a similar format to the divisional matchups 6-6-8-8 format.

However under the recent divisions in the league I'd find it hard to see a true realignment happen anytime soon the only way that would come to reality would be if the league would be able to truly expand into certain cities to make up the change in the current divisional alignments.

The only true city in the current league that would benefit from a realignment would be the Hamilton Bulldogs as they are to some fine degree too far west to truly be considered an east division team but too far east to be considered to be a central division team.

 

[Otto]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the Bulldogs stated that they were happy in their current division

 

[Tarantula]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the Bulldogs stated that they were happy in their current division

Quite possibly said for public consumption. They would have to want Niagara in their division, natural close rival that would add to their gate. The closest teams to them are at the very least in another division, or even Kitchener and Guelph, another conference. I have no recollection if it was a statement or not, but logically I am sure they would rather have Niagara as a division rival compared to most of the Eastern Ontario teams they now travel to.

 

[AttackSound]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the Bulldogs stated that they were happy in their current division

That's exactly my point, they would be the only team that would have an option to what division would prefer to play in based off location. However from a fan perspective I know from talking to a few Bulldogs fans that beyond the building being to some degree oversized on capacity I haven't seen anything that suggests the league would consider realigning the divisions and or conferences in anyway.

 

[dirty12]

Even though it's four lanes all the way, the Niagara to North Bay trip seems worthy of reconsideration, especially in winter. Would NB, Sudbury, Barrie, OS and Missy be any better?

Better for Niagara (Erie should probably be in their division); but much worse for OS. OS (Barrie would be nice) belongs in a division with Guelph & Kitchener.