Real Madrid - Liverpool: CL Final 26th May

Discussion in 'Soccer' started by Savant, May 2, 2018.

?

Who wins?

Poll closed May 27, 2018.
  1. Real Madrid

    62.0%
  2. Liverpool

    38.0%
  1. Live in the Now Registered User

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    LOL why pay 85 million for a keeper when there's a great one playing for Lazio that would cost about 20-25 million.

    He pushed him yes. Then his arm flies out afterwards and hits Karius like a metal ball drawn to a magnet.
     
  2. Deficient Mode Registered User

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    IDK why you'd say it's a matter of Liverpool being lucky rather than Barca being poor in the knockout rounds when they've been upset and played poorly three years in a row. Too bad because they're probably the only team that can stop Madrid from winning another three titles in a row.
     
  3. Live in the Now Registered User

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    Oh my this post is bad with the exception of one thing. You said it yourself, Liverpool looked really good when Salah was playing. RM was practically shitting their pants, I was getting pretty excited, I did not expect to see RM on the back foot like that. Salah is still going to be playing and Liverpool can raise his wages as much as is necessary. As long as he's there, they will be an extremely strong team, and when they add even more quality (because with Keita they already have), even better.

    Liverpool already spent 48 million on a midfielder and is talking about spending 60 million on an attacker. They have spent practically nothing in three years. The chairman literally just said they are going to spend and create depth for the squad.

    You can't see them beating City when Liverpool's beaten City four times since Pep got there? WTF? I can't believe you would possibly say something so dumb. If anything Pep needs to prove that he can surpass Liverpool in the Champions League. This season was a dream run that happened before they even spent the money they had for transfers. It would have been a miracle to win a CL with Klopp having spent basically nothing in terms of net spend. They still made the final. The idea that Liverpool won't get close again is pretty ludicrous, they had the youngest starting squad since Dortmund made the final. Unlike Dortmund, they have the ability to keep raising their players wages, however far that it needs to go. There will be more finals and more league chances, I have no doubt. It would be different if there were a bunch of old players on this team, but we don't have any. We have gotten very lucky to be in this position, I have no doubt about that either.

    If this was a loss where it was the team with Gerrard and Carragher in this final, I would probably be absolutely devastated, but this isn't one of those cases. This was only Klopp's second full season, they've far surpassed any rational expectations.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2018
    Scandale du Jour likes this.
  4. S E P H @SEPH_WHL

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    Ohhhhh, trust me I am not expecting Liverpool to spend 85 million on a keeper...my whole post's context is that of "they're seriously going to up all the club's power to buy a player which they clearly do not need for 85 million, when a position which is in a dire shape would cost like 60% less than that?". It doesn't make sense to me, besides Buffon great goalkeepers are still very cheap considering the rest of the market value.

    We see it all time in hockey and in football....those lesser teams and nations upsetting one of the premier clubs only to lose in the next round as Roma/Suisse did. I think it is very fair to say that Roma fair and square beat Barca, but Barca would have beat Liverpool if they made it to the semifinals. We'll see, I think Bayern has the ability to beat RM as well as PSG with Tuchel...the biggest problem is that none of the teams in Europe can match their benches where Madrid do a lot of their damage from.
     
  5. Live in the Now Registered User

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    They do need Fekir though, you gave the reason yourself. Look who they had to bring in when Salah was injured. A player who didn't play basically all season. Lallana is a really good player but he just blew his thigh, played a few minutes, then has to play for 60 minutes in the CL Final. The game could have went differently if Ox was playing as well, because he brought something from midfield they no longer had today. If Liverpool has two players like let's just say Fekir and Bailey it means they can choose who to play in these games or not worry about injuries. They also definitely have the money to buy those players now. Some of the ones on big wages will have to depart, like Lallana, but such is life.

    Having a lean squad has allowed the club to save money, they got a huge new kit sponsorship, signed a new kit deal, and got 70m from this CL run too. Plus FIFA is going to give them and every other team with 3 European Cups a 100m handout for their new Club World Cup idea. Now that the chairman has said the squad needs depth, it is time to go get depth.
     
  6. Deficient Mode Registered User

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    Didn't Switzerland upset multiple teams this year?

    See, I don't think Barca would have beaten Liverpool. Not in the form they were in then vs. Liverpool's form.

    Bayern have been crushed by Madrid 3 times in 5 years and I don't like the direction they're going in.

    We'll see about Tuchel's PSG. On paper, they can compete with Madrid.
     
  7. Savant Registered User

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    They are. They can do both. They need both.
     
  8. Live in the Now Registered User

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    There are lots of teams that can compete with Madrid. City, Barcelona, Juve, PSG, Liverpool, and Bayern all rival or surpass them. On paper anyway. Then what happens in the games where they play them is some voodoo shit where everyone's best players get hurt against them or in the middle of the games between the ties. It's pretty ridiculous.

    Against PSG, Neymar gets hurt before leg #2.

    When they played Juve, they never played a full strength Juve at any point whatsoever. Matuidi and Cuadrado only came on the field after Dybala was sent off.

    Against Bayern, they got to play against Boateng and Robben for like 20 minutes. Could have been less or more, but so disgusting I can't even bother to look. That's not even talking about what the refs did.

    Against Liverpool, they play against Salah for like 27 minutes.

    Nobody can beat them when that happens. It's a joke.
     
  9. IamNotADancer Registered User

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    We must be seeing two different things here.

    His arm didn't "fly out", his body surely twisted right after the push but there was no "deliberate elbowing".

    As I said, I sympathize for Liverpool and there fans. I would have had no problem to see this cinderella story end on a positive note, but there is absolutely no reason to remove any sort of objectivity.

    Facts are: Ramos went into the box with speed, van Dijk pushed Ramos with both hands adding momentum to Ramos' speed, Ramos loses balance and makes contact with Karius' head.
    That's it.

    The "Ramos put out his elbow on purpose to hit Karius in the head because Ramos is a scumbag" - narrative looks rather silly, especially coming from a fan of a Premier League team, the last league in which diving and exaggerated theatrics is mostly frowned upon.

    I can't stand the theatrics and f*** every single player for grabbing their body parts writhing in pain only to get up within seconds to then again be able to perform at top rate. That being said, let's not interpret things into something that isn't there.
    Ramos is a tough player, he also tries to get an advantage via dirty (read diving) plays. This however was nothing.

    If you want to blame anyone blame van Dijk for pushing an opposing player in your own box with two hands so blatantly that not a single Liverpool fan could have complained about a penalty in that situation.


    Long story short, big fuss over nothing.
     
  10. Deficient Mode Registered User

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    I don't know about "surpass" but I agree that if those teams played as well against Madrid as they usually do against everyone else, they'd have a very good shot of beating them.

    With some of these teams, it obviously extends more than a year. Juventus laid a total egg in the final last year after a brilliant campaign. Bayern have been beaten decisively every time they've met. Robben being injured has been a constant for them in those ties and their other CL losses, but it's hard to attribute it all to that.

    The luck/voodoo is unbelievable but it seems to happen round after round, year after year - and even in La Liga. I'm kind of at a loss to explain it. Normally I don't like to resort to talking about mental weakness/strength, but it does seem such a pervasive factor with Madrid.
     
  11. Edo The Mightiest Club

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    Dude, you can't buy a top level keeper for 20-25$ million. But yeah, totally, go for it Liverpool.
     
  12. Live in the Now Registered User

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    You don't know football at all, so basically everything you say is totally irrelevant. Mind telling me what Roma paid for Alisson and Atletico paid for Oblak?

    Strakosha or Sergio Rico would cost no more than 20m. Kepa and Lafont maybe a little more. The keeper who just won the CL is worse than all those guys. With wisdom like what you said about Salah, I'm surprised you'd try to be an expert about anything related to transfers.
     
  13. Moncherry Registered User

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    The most expensive goalkeeper transfers of all time

    Only two cost more than £30 mil and the rest cost less than £20 mil. And those are (some of) the most expensive ever. The likes of Lloris and Courtois went for less than £10 mil.

    Also Everton bought Pickford for around £25 mil and he was the most sought after keeper in England.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2018
  14. Live in the Now Registered User

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    There are probably more good keepers now than ever before. The problem is, teams at the top don't need new keepers and therefore the next generation of great keepers winds up staying at their club for way too long.

    If Liverpool wants a new keeper, there are at least 10 good ones they could choose from. Then there's Jack Butland. Hopefully they don't choose him.
     
  15. Havre Registered User

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    You can have Lloris for 35 :laugh:

    Actually. I wouldn´t mind Karius. I could see him struggling at Pool, because those mistakes will always be in the back of their minds in big games, but a "fresh start" at Spurs.....

    Så 34m+Karius for Lloris. Done deal. Of course Lloris has made far more of those kind of mistakes than Karius this season....
     
  16. Havre Registered User

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    Too simplistic in my opinion. If it is that easy and that cheap why the $#%$"# have Liverpool kept on buying the goalkeepers they have bought?

    Finding the right goalkeeper is a nightmare in my opinion. Ask City. It seems like that position you need the "right fit" more than anywhere else on the pitch. And it seems a bit random who are that fit.
     
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  17. Evilo Registered User

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    :dunno:
    After I disputed in this very thread that he was not WC IMO?

    At least try to follow if you want to act funny.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2018
  18. Live in the Now Registered User

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    Klopp thinks Karius is good enough is the easy and simplistic answer to your question. And until being elbowed in the head, he had been.
     
  19. Evilo Registered User

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    Good luck with that.
     
  20. les Habs Registered User

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    Wow, what another awful advertisement for "the beautiful game" featuring Real Madrid. I'll just cut to the chase. Refs actually catch (assuming they missed it) Ramos clearly purposely catching Karius in the face and he's off. He already should have been booked for the foul on Salah, but once again he walks away scot-free. So Ramos takes out their best player and should be sent off within the first 50 minutes of the match when the scoreline is still 0-0. While no one knows what happens after that point even if the refs get it right, it's pretty clear how the odds shift. Now somebody actually mentioned Mane's fould on Ramos. Mane' should have been sent off at some stage, but the catch is that if Ramos had been sent off then Mane' doesn't make that foul. On top of that, if you're going make a big deal about Mane', then what of Ronaldo at least on the throat but I think in the face of Salah in the second minute?

    Ramos is one of the biggest pieces of trash in the game. Granted he's got plenty of company in his own locker room, including Ronaldo who is as big. On top of the dirty plays in this match, he also embellished like crazy on that one play. Of course few here even commented on it. Back to his dirty play though, it's laughable the free pass he gets on the Salah play with the "he didn't try to injure him" line. He tried to foul him and take him out of the play in a physical manner. In the process he injured him. The fact he's purposely fouling him which leads to the injury is bad enough. Ramos looked slow and off the pace of the match for pretty much the first half and much of the night too. Apparently he's the best CB in the World and part of the best CB pairing (despite being 6th best in goals allowed in the league). Didn't look like it again today. Look at the Mane' goal too. Lovren beats Ramos to the header which goes to Mane'.

    With all the false narratives on this forum all the time, it's little wonder that a man such as Donald Trump is President. It's bad enough with the usual revisionists, but then this sort of match brings in all other kinds of crazy nonsense. Reading this thread you'd actually think Ronaldo not only had a good match, but that he had a phenomenal match. As if the Ballon d' Or nonsense and what have you isn't bad enough, the laughable stats post is even worse. You may want to consider the added context of how many CL matches Ronaldo has actually played in compared to no one in particular. That's not to mention the multiple other points of context. Moving on, you've got the Modric commentary... All that's missing now is something about Marcelo being the second best player of all time. At the end of the day full credit to Bale who scored an amazing goal (initially I thought it was one of the best if not the best I've ever seen). Still what an unimpressive showing from Madrid apart from Bale's piece of magic.

    Liverpool should be proud of their performance. They weren't perfect the squad needs some depth, but they were fantastic until Salah went out. Even after that in the first half they showed up to a degree. Second half they looked tired. On the one hand Klopp didn't have great options on the bench at all, but on the other if you've got a gassed player or two out there and you're losing then roll the dice. Anyway, if Liverpool can keep the bulk of this squad intact and continue to strengthen I can see them in the Final again. They'll be better for it too despite the loss because they've got the experience. Tough loss, but if the refs catch everything and get everything right it might very well have been different.

    Well look at the second Clasico of the season. Refs keep them from going a man down and the man who should have been sent off scores their equalizer. Even 10 vs 11 they couldn't get three points. We took four points off them this season and it really should have been six.

    This is exactly what has already been explained to you and why I posted what I did about the refs affecting the Final in the first days this thread was started. This is par for the course for Ramos and Madrid. This sort of thing is a regular occurrence in La Liga. Not just this season. Not just last season. It's pretty much every season and they get away with it all the time. Hopefully you can actually see it after today.

    Over the years I've read a lot of stupid shit online, and this falls into that category. It's totally an @Jussi type of post too and it's your signature. I'm no longer amazed, but I have to say that while it's bad enough you made the first post, it's infinitely more pathetic that you actually made the second post. Why @Savant bothered to clarify I don't know. The fact he did though, with a clearly acceptable and understandable explanation, and you still replied with that second post speaks volumes. You've got some serious issues.
     
  21. Creed Bratton Registered User

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    Strakosha strikes me as just another project like Karius.
     
  22. Bon Esprit Registered User

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    As a neutral coming late to the party all i can say is that Pool impressed me until the Salah injury. Maybe they could have even won that game without the injury and Karius.

    I don't think Karius can ever play for Pool again. He should terminate his contract and go elsewhere. I don't think Liverpool fans and his teammates will ever forgive or trust him again. Sad story, but this was a too much.
     
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  23. les Habs Registered User

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    :facepalm: This coming from the guy who after the play actually tells him to get up as well.
     
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  24. Live in the Now Registered User

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    He's not. Super underrated just like Salah and Milinkovic-Savic just because of the league he plays in. I saw him make one error against Salzburg, but otherwise he plays for a team with absolutely no defensive concept and has to make tons of crucial saves, basically stranded all by himself.

    As for the Karius can't play for Liverpool again, I'd take anyone's bets on that one. If Lovren can come back then Karius sure can. Outside of the moment, I still believe in the player, who had a great season with one exception. Feel terrible for him. That being said, if I didn't think Liverpool had a good enough team to get back to this point, I'd be horribly upset. A fluke this was not.
     
  25. Evilo Registered User

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    I wouldn't say a fluke, but stars did align. They usually do for CL finalists, and Real is no stranger to that.
    But between the cake walk group, the cake walk L16 opponents, the generous reffing against City, the generous reffing against Roma, Barca, PSG and Bayern not being drawn against, the no big injury before the final, etc..., Liverpool had all in all one single superior team to knock out (City).

    Sometimes teams have luck in the CL (draws, reffing, injuries) like Liverpool had this year and sometimes they don't (PSG for years, Bayern for a while). Sometimes, they can overcome some bad luck, but those teams are too close to get over it when facing each other.

    Klopp will make them players, but I don't expect Liverpool to be back in the final next year unless stars align again.
     

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