Player Discussion RD Nikita Zaitsev

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

That's a really odd comment. It's never one side is right and one side is wrong. For a discussion board it's becoming increasingly more difficult to have a discussion because your either right or wrong, I guess.

Its NEVER one is right or wrong? There's obviously room for nuance but this is sports. Generally you either win or lose. We can analyze it and understand why but for the most part things are either one or the other. That's obviously not true for every case, but there are definitely binary functions.

 

[EasyMoneySniper]

Yikes, you're a fan of Burrows and Thompson? Might as well high five Dorion and ask for a gig.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

That media scrum was something.

 

[Korpse]

Its NEVER one is right or wrong? There's obviously room for nuance but this is sports. Generally you either win or lose. We can analyze it and understand why but for the most part things are either one or the other. That's obviously not true for every case, but there are definitely binary functions.

It's never one side is right and the other side is wrong, or should i say rarely. Sure you win or you lose in sport but the reasons for winning or losing are rarely obvious. We like to think we know why things are the way that they are but it's that desire to be right that defeats discussions. The Duchene trade isnt the reason the Senators lost and while you were justified with your worries regarding the trade that doesn't make someone who liked the trade wrong.

 

[GrantLemons]

If he was on a 3-year deal i'd be fine with it. Problem with 5 is he starts boxing people out.

We just have to pray he's not so ass we can't move his cap hit in a couple of years.

 

[Hale The Villain]

That's a really odd comment. It's never one side is right and one side is wrong. For a discussion board it's becoming increasingly more difficult to have a discussion because your either right or wrong, I guess.

It's not black and white obviously, but there have always been some on this board that have been very critical of the people running the organization, and there have always been some who have staunchly defended them, and I know which side has been more right than the other over time.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

It's never one side is right and the other side is wrong, or should i say rarely. Sure you win or you lose in sport but the reasons for winning or losing are rarely obvious. We like to think we know why things are the way that they are but it's that desire to be right that defeats discussions. The Duchene trade isnt the reason the Senators lost and while you were justified with your worries regarding the trade that doesn't make someone who liked the trade wrong.

You can like whatever you want. That's just a feeling. You can like something but for reasons that are irrational or just incorrect.

"Each moved Dorian has made has made our club more skilled, more competitive, harder to beat, and a closer knit group. We gave away nothing we couldn't afford to lose in any trade, and we're a much better team over all."

The is an objectively incorrect statement based on the results of what has transpired here.

I understand your point that people's need to be right, can cloud discussion and I agree with you. But if we can't address truths and basic facts then I don't know how a proper discussion can even take place.

The user in question has even admitted that he's unfamiliar with Zaitsev yet still feels the need to interject and obstruct the discussion and gaslight whomever is willing to stray from the tribal boundaries and only wants to attack their credibility since he has nothing else to add.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

DJ knows Zaitsev better than all Internet coaches. I suppose...

You are correct.
Boucher also new Dumont and Pyatt and Thompson and Didominico better than the internet coaches

 

[Albus Dumbledore]

FWIW zaitsev is probably a fair amount better then ceci.

He is a very polarizing player.
I think is IQ and decision making hold him back a bit but he can skate,hit and shoot very well. Very toolsey just no toolbox.

I think is contract is fair if hes a #4 maybe a bit better but he could also be a #5 hard to say.

His consucssions have held him back since the end of year one. And being placed in a different role.

Like he will be polak dumb and dump pucks some plays and others can skate like Gardiner and make some good passes. Confidence could be an issue hard to say but something is off.

All in all I wouldn't be surprised in a different role he was a #3 and had 40 points next year for you guys but also if he missed 1/3 season and had like 10 points.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Its NEVER one is right or wrong? There's obviously room for nuance but this is sports. Generally you either win or lose. We can analyze it and understand why but for the most part things are either one or the other. That's obviously not true for every case, but there are definitely binary functions.

I subscribe to the "I'm ok - You're not" school of posting on HF. Pretty sure alot of us do. MrCraig certainly seems to.

 

[Cosmix]

Well sure, but we're supposed to be bad this season. A lot will be hinging on Brannstrom, because with multiple top pairing D's we're starting to look better back there than the Devils, Rangers, Kings, ect.

Multiple top pairing Ds? I see one top pairing D who needs to improve defensively.

 

[Korpse]

It's not black and white obviously, but there have always been some on this board that have been very critical of the people running the organization, and there have always been some who have staunchly defended them, and I know which side has been more right than the other over time.

I think your missing the point. It's not about being right or wrong but being open minded. I find when you are extreme on either side you are setting yourself up to look like a fool. I think you can find an equal amount of instances when both sides were foolish.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

It's never one side is right and the other side is wrong, or should i say rarely. Sure you win or you lose in sport but the reasons for winning or losing are rarely obvious. We like to think we know why things are the way that they are but it's that desire to be right that defeats discussions. The Duchene trade isnt the reason the Senators lost and while you were justified with your worries regarding the trade that doesn't make someone who liked the trade wrong.

Pretending there are two sides to everything can be a discussion killer. Maybe not everything is black and white, but there are times where things are heavily skewed in one direction, enough to call it as such and not pretend every opinion is still valid.

Time quite often bares out the truth, such as the Duchene move being a bad one looking back. GM's are judged using hindsight and while it's an unfortunate aspect of the job, it's more than fair to do so.

 

[Korpse]

You can like whatever you want. That's just a feeling. You can like something but for reasons that are irrational or just incorrect.

"Each moved Dorian has made has made our club more skilled, more competitive, harder to beat, and a closer knit group. We gave away nothing we couldn't afford to lose in any trade, and we're a much better team over all."

The is an objectively incorrect statement based on the results of what has transpired here.

I understand your point that people's need to be right, can cloud discussion and I agree with you. But if we can't address truths and basic facts then I don't know how a proper discussion can even take place.

The user in question has even admitted that he's unfamiliar with Zaitsev yet still feels the need to interject and obstruct the discussion and gaslight whomever is willing to stay from the tribal boundaries and only wants to attack the credibility since he has nothing else to add.

In hindsight it may appear incorrect and there are some parts which are over the top but I wouldn't say it's wrong. I think the failures of that club extend beyond the roster changes and is perhaps a discussion to have in a different thread. It is a fact that the club struggled after the trade but it's a different discussion altogether to suggest swapping Turris for Duchene was the reason for that but as I said pervious you were justified with your concerns about the trade.

The need to have an opinion despite familiarity on the topic or lack thereof is also an issue. I find it best to avoid topics I'm not familiar with.

 

[Korpse]

I subscribe to the "I'm ok - You're not" school of posting on HF. Pretty sure alot of us do. MrCraig certainly seems to.

Not really sure what that means but I'm willing to engage in a productive discussion with anyone who shows an ounce of maturity and don't have an agenda regardless of how their view differs from mine.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Not really sure what that means but I'm willing to engage in a productive discussion with anyone who shows an ounce of maturity and don't have an agenda regardless of how their view differs from mine.

I am sure that is true

 

[foggyvisor]

Can we get back to comparing Zaitsev to Fetisov plz? Thx

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I am upping my point total prediction to 22

 

[Ice-Tray]

In hindsight it may appear incorrect and there are some parts which are over the top but I wouldn't say it's wrong. I think the failures of that club extend beyond the roster changes and is perhaps a discussion to have in a different thread. It is a fact that the club struggled after the trade but it's a different discussion altogether to suggest swapping Turris for Duchene was the reason for that but as I said pervious you were justified with your concerns about the trade.

The need to have an opinion despite familiarity on the topic or lack thereof is also an issue. I find it best to avoid topics I'm not familiar with.

It’s funny, I loved that trade and felt that he was a guy that could be a serious upgrade to Turris, which given our run the year before would be much needed if we were to try again, and it fit in the budget. In the end he was a serious upgrade on Turris, but when the plane is going down it doesn’t seem to matter how good anyone is.

The team falling off of a cliff was not because Turris left or Methot, at least not talent-wise, it seems like the dressing room imploded.

Anyways, I like your comments on right and wrong and agree. I don’t actually put much stock in either when I post, choosing to share how I feel instead of making planned and researched argument, for good or for bad. This site just isn’t that for me.

I made a cheeky comment about FQL and Zaitsev, given his epic stance last summer in regards to BT, and things moved decidedly sideways from there, lol.

Anyways, I look forward to seeing what Zaitsev can do this season, hopefully he’ll be a positive, at worst he can help us bottom out again, and keep our young RD in the AHL for another year or two.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

It’s funny, I loved that trade and felt that he was a guy that could be a serious upgrade to Turris, which given our run the year before would be much needed if we were to try again, and it fit in the budget. In the end he was a serious upgrade on Turris, but when the plane is going down it doesn’t seem to matter how good anyone is.

The team falling off of a cliff was not because Turris left or Methot, at least not talent-wise, it seems like the dressing room imploded.

Anyways, I like your comments on right and wrong and agree. I don’t actually put much stock in either when I post, choosing to share how I feel instead of making planned and researched argument, for good or for bad. This site just isn’t that for me.

I made a cheeky comment about FQL and Zaitsev, given his epic stance last summer in regards to BT, and things moved decidedly sideways from there, lol.

Anyways, I look forward to seeing what Zaitsev can do this season, hopefully he’ll be a positive, at worst he can help us bottom out again, and keep our young RD in the AHL for another year or two.

No Methot and an injured Karlsson were big factors. Methot's contribution was definitely missed. Karlsson was no where close to what we were used to. Goaltending wasn't great but our D weren't either. Boucher had a harder time getting people on the same page and the supporting roster wasn't as good ... Its not like they were blowing people away the year before. The margin was slim between winning and losing .. We lost roster. We lost more games. No fault of Duchene. Although the trade may have disrupted the room .. I don't know.

 

[Ice-Tray]

No Methot and an injured Karlsson were big factors. Methot's contribution was definitely missed. Karlsson was no where close to what we were used to. Goaltending wasn't great but our D weren't either. Boucher had a harder time getting people on the same page and the supporting roster wasn't as good ... Its not like they were blowing people away the year before. The margin was slim between winning and losing .. We lost roster. We lost more games. No fault of Duchene. Although the trade may have disrupted the room .. I don't know.

I agree, and given our budget constraints I think we had to try and get better without adding a bunch of money, which is near impossible within the season.

Personally I feel like the value of Turris and Methot were most important off the ice when looking back. I think those two, and Phaneuf, were EKs closest friends in the team, and given the stuff he went through, from injury recovery to harassment, I think it made for a really tough time, made worse at work with his support base gone.

It wasn’t just him either. The whole team from the net out fell flat, Duchene didn’t score at all for a while and the goalies couldn’t stop a beach ball. Makes me wonder whether Boucher dropped the ball at a time when he should maybe have been trying to get the guys to have fun again, instead of pushing x’s and o’s On an already depressed group.

I mean, it was tough to watch as fans, it must have been pretty bad for the squad and staff.

 

[GrantLemons]

It’s funny, I loved that trade and felt that he was a guy that could be a serious upgrade to Turris, which given our run the year before would be much needed if we were to try again, and it fit in the budget. In the end he was a serious upgrade on Turris, but when the plane is going down it doesn’t seem to matter how good anyone is.

The team falling off of a cliff was not because Turris left or Methot, at least not talent-wise, it seems like the dressing room imploded.

Anyways, I like your comments on right and wrong and agree. I don’t actually put much stock in either when I post, choosing to share how I feel instead of making planned and researched argument, for good or for bad. This site just isn’t that for me.

I made a cheeky comment about FQL and Zaitsev, given his epic stance last summer in regards to BT, and things moved decidedly sideways from there, lol.

Anyways, I look forward to seeing what Zaitsev can do this season, hopefully he’ll be a positive, at worst he can help us bottom out again, and keep our young RD in the AHL for another year or two.

You could make the argument though that the dressing room implosion might have been averted if Turris and Methot hadn't left. Those two guys are essentially 2/3 of your longest tenured leaders, and losing them obviously made a massive difference. Maybe the EK/Hoffman stuff gets dealt with quicker with those guys around to mediate, instead of festering all season and blowing up into legal action.

All speculation of course, but IMO with Turris and Methot gone (and to a lesser extent MacArthur), there was simply no heart left on that team. Once the drama arose, it was doomsday.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

We effectively lost our top d pairing and our goalies came out and laid eggs hard. We lost a heart and soul Macarthur again just before camp. The coach went through his typical cycle he's shown of only getting first year results. Those were all bigger factors in the collapse than any of that broken room nonsense.

 

[Micklebot]

We effectively lost our top d pairing and our goalies came out and laid eggs hard. We lost a heart and soul Macarthur again just before camp. The coach went through his typical cycle he's shown of only getting first year results. Those were all bigger factors in the collapse than any of that broken room nonsense.

The year we went on the cup run and following offseason must have been a bit of an emotional roller coaster;

- MacArthur gets concussed in training camp, looks like his career is over when he's told to shut it down for the season in January
- Nicolle Anderson is diagnosed with cancer, Anderson takes time off to be with her.
- We pick up Condon and he plays out of his mind (well, really good anyway)
- Anderson is back
- Karlsson breaks his foot and misses the end of the year
- Methot's finger is chopped off by Crosby right before the playoffs.
- MacArthur returns to the ice
- Karlsson plays on one leg
- We go to OT in game 7 of the ECF
- Lose Methot to the expansion draft
- Brassard and Karlsson both have major offseason surgery
- MacArthur's unofficially LTIretiring

The start of the next season would have been real tough after going through that; at some point you have to deal with all that emotional stress both personally and as a team. Shipping off Turris early the next season probably didn't help the locker room particularly with Methot gone and going on a big slide right after probably compounded things in a big way.

Heck, Neil and Kelly left the locker room too that year. That's a lot of the teams leadership group out the door in Neil, Kelly, Methot, Turris, and MacArthur. Neil and Kelly leaving on it's own isn't much of an issue, but Methot and Turris are probably part of the group the guys that would normally be expected to pick up the slack. Too much of the leadership group out the door at the same time is probably partially to blame for things going sideways

Now, with all that said, Zaitsev is here to fix the room...

Seriously though, Zaitsev is a good skater, I think he's got better puck skills than he's shown, but has not used them effectively over the last couple seasons. What I mean is the talent is there, the decision making hasn't been.

I hope we can reform him, not holding my breath, but I think he's going to be ok so long as I ignore the term.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

The year we went on the cup run and following offseason must have been a bit of an emotional roller coaster;

- MacArthur gets concussed in training camp, looks like his career is over when he's told to shut it down for the season in January
- Nicolle Anderson is diagnosed with cancer, Anderson takes time off to be with her.
- We pick up Condon and he plays out of his mind (well, really good anyway)
- Anderson is back
- Karlsson breaks his foot and misses the end of the year
- Methot's finger is chopped off by Crosby right before the playoffs.
- MacArthur returns to the ice
- Karlsson plays on one leg
- We go to OT in game 7 of the ECF
- Lose Methot to the expansion draft
- Brassard and Karlsson both have major offseason surgery
- MacArthur's unofficially LTIretiring

The start of the next season would have been real tough after going through that; at some point you have to deal with all that emotional stress both personally and as a team. Shipping off Turris early the next season probably didn't help the locker room particularly with Methot gone and going on a big slide right after probably compounded things in a big way.

Heck, Neil and Kelly left the locker room too that year. That's a lot of the teams leadership group out the door in Neil, Kelly, Methot, Turris, and MacArthur. Neil and Kelly leaving on it's own isn't much of an issue, but Methot and Turris are probably part of the group the guys that would normally be expected to pick up the slack. Too much of the leadership group out the door at the same time is probably partially to blame for things going sideways

Now, with all that said, Zaitsev is here to fix the room...

Seriously though, Zaitsev is a good skater, I think he's got better puck skills than he's shown, but has not used them effectively over the last couple seasons. What I mean is the talent is there, the decision making hasn't been.

I hope we can reform him, not holding my breath, but I think he's going to be ok so long as I ignore the term.

Excellent segue.