Player Discussion RD Nikita Zaitsev

[ottawah]

And no way in hell Ceci gets harder deployments. Most obviously because he's always on the ice with superstars, you are certainly not considering the QoT. Try to play with guys like Matthews, Tavares, Marner, Nylander and then try the same thing with Tkachuk, White, Ryan/Namestnikov and Tierney. Automatically Zaitsev plays minutes that are incrementally more challenging, more challenging minutes than Ceci will ever play in Toronto and arguably some the hardest minutes in the NHL right now playing top pair against superstars with timbits hockey level teammates when comparing with Toronto.

And this exact statement shows the anti Ceci bias.

5v5 who gets the highest quality teammates for D men in the league (100 minutes)? Zaitsev (Ceci is 7th still pretty high). QOC? Ceci is 7th in the league, Zaitsev is 37th. D Zone starts? Ceci is 30th, Zaitsev is 120th.

Ceci is getting the minutes Zaitsev got in Toronto last year, and his numbers are far far superior. Zaitsev is getting Ceci light minutes from Ottawa, and is putting up worse numbers.

And not all TO fans have the hatred they certainly think he is above Barrie and a good many are quite happy. He's is the best on the D in in goals against per 60 all situations plus PK.

Toronto defensive numbers have taken a big jump up from last year. You have to ask yourself why.

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

Ceci got a lot of undeserved hate but he’s certainly worse than Zaitsev by a big margin

 

[bert]

Ceci got a lot of undeserved hate but he’s certainly worse than Zaitsev by a big margin

Oh yeah, its not even a conversation.

 

[BonkTastic]

Zaitsev is getting Ceci light minutes from Ottawa, and is putting up worse numbers.

Have you seen this year's version of the Sens, compared to last year's?

Zaitsev is an average whatever player, nothing special, I'm certainly not here to pump the guy's tires... But I don't expect ANYONE to really have good numbers this year.

Even a guy like Chabot is going to be hard-pressed to replicate his numbers from last season, and he's a year older and better going into this season.

 

[DueDiligence]

No comparison really, Ceci has performed well above Zaitsev this year. In seemingly every category, despite getting noticeably harder deployment.

Ceci's teammates are far superior to what Zaitsev is playing with on Ottawa. I would expect his numbers to be better.

 

[supsens]

And this exact statement shows the anti Ceci bias.

5v5 who gets the highest quality teammates for D men in the league (100 minutes)? Zaitsev (Ceci is 7th still pretty high). QOC? Ceci is 7th in the league, Zaitsev is 37th. D Zone starts? Ceci is 30th, Zaitsev is 120th.

Ceci is getting the minutes Zaitsev got in Toronto last year, and his numbers are far far superior. Zaitsev is getting Ceci light minutes from Ottawa, and is putting up worse numbers.

And not all TO fans have the hatred they certainly think he is above Barrie and a good many are quite happy. He's is the best on the D in in goals against per 60 all situations plus PK.

Toronto defensive numbers have taken a big jump up from last year. You have to ask yourself why.

How on earth does Little Z have the “highest quality of teammates” I am sure the quality of his team is bottom of the NHL.
Next how is showing the QOC or Dzone starts showing anything at all?

 

[Boud]

And this exact statement shows the anti Ceci bias.

5v5 who gets the highest quality teammates for D men in the league (100 minutes)? Zaitsev (Ceci is 7th still pretty high). QOC? Ceci is 7th in the league, Zaitsev is 37th. D Zone starts? Ceci is 30th, Zaitsev is 120th.

Ceci is getting the minutes Zaitsev got in Toronto last year, and his numbers are far far superior. Zaitsev is getting Ceci light minutes from Ottawa, and is putting up worse numbers.

And not all TO fans have the hatred they certainly think he is above Barrie and a good many are quite happy. He's is the best on the D in in goals against per 60 all situations plus PK.

Toronto defensive numbers have taken a big jump up from last year. You have to ask yourself why.

Toronto is so much better defensively than last year that they've allowed the most goals against in the league so far. That's rich, real good one there. Average teams like Calgary and Dallas have allowed 7 goals less in 11 games. Good defrnsive team like Vegas has allowed a goal a game less than Toronto.

In the same amount of games they've allowed more goals against than Winnipeg, arguably the worst defense in the league right now. Good offense for Toronto, absolutely horrible defense all around for a team with that much firepower who was supposed to be much better defensively.

Again, if you're looking at stats only, which is clearly what you're doing, your analysis is worthless.

Quality of teammates higher for Zaitsev? Are you serious? How? Get me the list of most common linemates for Zaitsev and do the same for Ceci and compare for yourself and see how it makes no sense at all. You know you need to be able to analyze those numbers and just spit them out right?

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

He's been better than expected and the salary won't hurt in the short term. I still think the term will bite this team, but we'll cross that bridge when we get there. It would be interesting to see how he'd look away from Chabot, that's the real litmus test, imo. If he can help anchor a 2nd pairing as opposed to being "carried" by Chabot it would give me more hope he'd play at a high level through the length of his deal.

Honestly, if he and Chabot can build chemistry and TC can make him play above his skill level, then he's going to be great value in the top pair.

 

[LeProspector]

I don’t care what Ceci is doing for the Leafs. Zaitsev is the superior player in the Senators uniform. He has played well with in the small sample size we have seen all things considered. He has a poise to him that we never saw with Ceci, he looks confident with the puck and isn’t afraid to have it on his stick.
I’m impressed we were able to get him and C.Brown for Ceci. Big Ups on this one Dorian.

 

[Sens]

He’s as good defensively as Methot

 

[Adele Dazeem]

No comparison really, Ceci has performed well above Zaitsev this year. In seemingly every category, despite getting noticeably harder deployment.

I'm referring to when Ceci was playing for us; haven't followed him in the Laugh island.

 

[Boud]

And this exact statement shows the anti Ceci bias.

5v5 who gets the highest quality teammates for D men in the league (100 minutes)? Zaitsev (Ceci is 7th still pretty high). QOC? Ceci is 7th in the league, Zaitsev is 37th. D Zone starts? Ceci is 30th, Zaitsev is 120th.

Ceci is getting the minutes Zaitsev got in Toronto last year, and his numbers are far far superior. Zaitsev is getting Ceci light minutes from Ottawa, and is putting up worse numbers.

And not all TO fans have the hatred they certainly think he is above Barrie and a good many are quite happy. He's is the best on the D in in goals against per 60 all situations plus PK.

Toronto defensive numbers have taken a big jump up from last year. You have to ask yourself why.

Also look at these Leafs fans here in the main board thread titled "Leafs are allowing 3.5 goals against per game"

The basic issue is Babcock's system and his personnel decisions. Cody Ceci shouldn't be playing first pair minutes and hopefully when Dermott returns gets demoted to the bottom pair. Guys like Holl,Gravel and Marincin are barely NHLers.

The goalies were terrible when the team was playing okay. (Just okay). Now the goalies are playing well and the team is playing like ****. The Rielly-Ceci pair has been a cluster**** all year.

Just about everything on the Leafs is out of sync right now. They’re a much better team on paper and just about everyone on that roster was better defensively last year (except Ceci).

I don’t know how they fix it, but they have the personnel to have a top10 defense. Rielly has been a turnstile and while he’s never been a stalwart, he’s never been close to this bad.

Muzzin and Barrie are fantastic.

We're talking about the Leafs not the Sabres. Also the only small mobile dman we have is Barrie lol. Buffalo has more of those. Rielly and Muzzin are both great shut down dmen and are definitely not small, neither are Holl, Marincin or Ceci. Once Dermott comes back and Ceci slides down the defence will be much better. Lol you clearly got ur teams mixed up cause what you said perfectly describes the Sabres defence. Bunch of puck movers that don't know how to play D.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

He’s as good defensively as Methot

That is an absolutely insane thing to think or say.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Can’t be saying anything that could be construed as a complement to the team or Dorion.

Methot was a very average defenseman playing a solid role as a stay at home partner to EK. While solid, he was nothing special before, during, or after his tenure with the Sens.

Z has been solid for us, and seems like he may be able to fill that same role with Chabot, except he’s a little less physical, and a lot more mobile than Methot.

It would be nice to have that kind of duo again, it worked well.

 

[swiftwin]

Can’t be saying anything that could be construed as a complement to the team or Dorion.

Methot was a very average defenseman playing a solid role as a stay at home partner to EK. While solid, he was nothing special before, during, or after his tenure with the Sens.

Z has been solid for us, and seems like he may be able to fill that same role with Chabot, except he’s a little less physical, and a lot more mobile than Methot.

It would be nice to have that kind of duo again, it worked well.

Alot more mobile that Methot? Methot was very very fast for his size. I'm pretty sure we was faster than Zaitsev is. The biggest difference between the two is that Zaitsev has much more offensive upside.

 

[robsenz]

He reminds me of Demelo last year. Did not hear his name much. Gets the job done.

Which is exactly what you want from a D who basically isn't your #1 guy. I have no issues with Melo or Zaitsev's game. Z actually tries to box guys out and clear in front of the net. Ceci's brain couldn't function at speed near the crease.

 

[Boud]

And this exact statement shows the anti Ceci bias.

5v5 who gets the highest quality teammates for D men in the league (100 minutes)? Zaitsev (Ceci is 7th still pretty high). QOC? Ceci is 7th in the league, Zaitsev is 37th. D Zone starts? Ceci is 30th, Zaitsev is 120th.

Ceci is getting the minutes Zaitsev got in Toronto last year, and his numbers are far far superior. Zaitsev is getting Ceci light minutes from Ottawa, and is putting up worse numbers.

And not all TO fans have the hatred they certainly think he is above Barrie and a good many are quite happy. He's is the best on the D in in goals against per 60 all situations plus PK.

Toronto defensive numbers have taken a big jump up from last year. You have to ask yourself why.

https://www.tsn.ca/video/how-long-u...ent-considers-potentially-moving-ceci~1815244

''How long until the leafs management considers potentially moving Ceci''

TSN Hockey Insider Bob McKenzie joins Andi Petrillo and Dave Feschuk to discuss the Leafs’ defensive pairings and how long the Leafs’ front office will give Cody Ceci given how much he’s struggling.

''I wonder how long Kyle Dubas will watch that and allow it to go on''

''The Leafs have not played a strong defensive brand of hockey on a consistent basis at any time over the last few years''

But hey: There's an anti-Ceci bias... by ... EVERYONE it seems. When everyone thinks you're bad, guess what you're very very likely just not that good. To say that Ceci has made the Leafs defensive game better as you implied is hilarious, to say that the Leafs have played better defensively this season as you mentioned is also hilarious. This is when you realize that advanced stats really don't mean much, especially when you read them without context. Ceci has been all kinds of bad so far this season, like nowhere near good. This is shades of people arguing that Wiercioch is a top 4 defensemen and then he got traded and was out of the league a year later. If Ceci keeps playing like he has been over the past 3 seasons he'll be just another Alzner, a guy people argued was a top 4 defensemen until everyone realized he isn't even a NHLer. Right now he's a 3rd pairing guy, nothing more than that.

We know the Leafs made this trade for one reason only: To make cap space in future years given their cap situation with Tavares, Matthews, Marner, Nylander and etc. They didn't make this deal because Ceci is better, they certainly hoped they could pull the old ''pump and dump'', but he never was and will not be in their long term plans.

Zaitsev has been, by all accounts, much better than Ceci with a team that's much much worse.

 

[bert]

Can’t be saying anything that could be construed as a complement to the team or Dorion.

Methot was a very average defenseman playing a solid role as a stay at home partner to EK. While solid, he was nothing special before, during, or after his tenure with the Sens.

Z has been solid for us, and seems like he may be able to fill that same role with Chabot, except he’s a little less physical, and a lot more mobile than Methot.

It would be nice to have that kind of duo again, it worked well.

Terrible take on Methot he was an absolute rock, one of the best shut down d men in hockey. Methot is way faster and more mobile than Zaitsev. He complimented Karlsson more than any partner he ever had and played his absolute best with him. Look at the sens record with and without him. He was a massive loss. His injuries since they let him go make the move look good but he was never replaced and the sens have never recovered.

I honestly dont know where you come up with this stuff. Are you related to Dorion?

 

[Boud]

Terrible take on Methot he was an absolute rock, one of the best shut down d men in hockey. Methot is way faster and more mobile than Zaitsev. He complimented Karlsson more than any partner he ever had and played his absolute best with him. Look at the sens record with and without him. He was a massive loss. His injuries since they let him go make the move look good but he was never replaced and the sens have never recovered.

I honestly dont know where you come up with this stuff. Are you related to Dorion?

While I don't think Zaitsev ia better than Methot, I think their skating and mobility is very similar. Zaitsev is a very good skater. Methot was more physical and hard to play against and Zaitsev uses his stick more than his body from what I can tell so far. I really don't see Methot's skating being much better than Zaitsev.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Terrible take on Methot he was an absolute rock, one of the best shut down d men in hockey. Methot is way faster and more mobile than Zaitsev. He complimented Karlsson more than any partner he ever had and played his absolute best with him. Look at the sens record with and without him. He was a massive loss. His injuries since they let him go make the move look good but he was never replaced and the sens have never recovered.

I honestly dont know where you come up with this stuff. Are you related to Dorion?

Ok Bert...

 

[Langdon Alger]

Ok Bert...

I mean, he’s not wrong. I don’t agree with your take on Methot either with all due respect. I find stay at home dmen get underrated sometimes. Methot was very solid in his time here. Far better than you’re giving him credit for.

 

[supsens]

Terrible take on Methot he was an absolute rock, one of the best shut down d men in hockey. Methot is way faster and more mobile than Zaitsev. He complimented Karlsson more than any partner he ever had and played his absolute best with him. Look at the sens record with and without him. He was a massive loss. His injuries since they let him go make the move look good but he was never replaced and the sens have never recovered.

I honestly dont know where you come up with this stuff. Are you related to Dorion?

Dorion didn’t want to lose methot, and let’s pretend he decided it was best to lose Methot, how has Methot done over the last couple years?
45 games and done
Or is the Dorion thing to discredit others?

 

[Ice-Tray]

I mean, he’s not wrong. I don’t agree with your take on Methot either with all due respect. I find stay at home dmen get underrated sometimes. Methot was very solid in his time here. Far better than you’re giving him credit for.

Im totally fine with people disagreeing with me.

I liked Methot the public person (don’t know him personally) and liked him as a player as well, I just don’t find that he was a special player. He was a solid player, and a great fit for EK. Z has been solid for us as well so far, if unspectacular, and skates as well as Methot did. If anything I find that Z has more a bit more offensive drive, while Marc had a bit more defensive accumen, but both did a good job being the defensive conscience for a more offensive minded defender. We’ll see if TC and NZ can settle into something special together.

I opted not to respond to Bert in particular simply because of his inability to be civil in discussions with me.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I mean, he’s not wrong. I don’t agree with your take on Methot either with all due respect. I find stay at home dmen get underrated sometimes. Methot was very solid in his time here. Far better than you’re giving him credit for.

Also a good leader at the rink

 

[starling]

TSN Hockey Insider Bob McKenzie joins Andi Petrillo and Dave Feschuk to discuss the Leafs’ defensive pairings and how long the Leafs’ front office will give Cody Ceci given how much he’s struggling.

He leads Leafs D in +/-. He hasn't even started struggling yet.