Rasmus Dahlin vs The Field

[nowhereman]

Heiskanen and Hughes are both 1YR older ('99s)
Makar is 2YRs older ('98)
McAvoy is 5YRs older ('95)
Jones is 6YRs older ('94)

Obviously most of those players should be better given most are a good amount older than he is, but Dahlin is far superior than players like McAvoy and Jones at the same age.

He's right in that Heiskanen, Hughes, Makar tier, and I expect in 5YRs he'll be considered the best of them. Hopefully the Sabres will have their shit together by that time. Still have yet to see how he looks on a team that isn't bottom 10.

McAvoy is 22 years old and was drafted in 2016, while Dahlin was draft in 2018. If you're going to include Makar and Heiskanen in the mix, it doesn't make any sense to exclude McAvoy.

As far as I'm concerned, Dahlin isn't yet in the Heiskanen/Hughes/Makar tier yet (as far as on-ice impact goes). Those players are first-pairing defenders who play big minutes for their respective teams and have dominated in the playoffs. Again, Dahlin is still living off his pre-draft reputation, as all three of those players are clearly better than him right now. That could change; hell, as soon as next season. But Dahlin still needs to prove himself before he can start living up to the hype.

You want to bring up teams? Look at Quinn Hughes and how he turned Vancouver from a bottom 10 team into a playoff team in one season, playing upwards of 25 minutes a night, breaking records in the process and helping his team to within one game of the Western Conference Finals. Buffalo brought in some pieces to compete this fall, so now it's Dahlin's turn to show he can do the same.

 

[Hale The Villain]

McAvoy is 22 years old and was drafted in 2016, while Dahlin was draft in 2018. If you're going to include Makar and Heiskanen in the mix, it doesn't make any sense to exclude McAvoy.

As far as I'm concerned, Dahlin isn't yet in the Heiskanen/Hughes/Makar tier yet (as far as on-ice impact goes). Those players are first-pairing defenders who play big minutes for their respective teams and have dominated in the playoffs. Again, Dahlin is still living off his pre-draft reputation, as all three of those players are clearly better than him right now. That could change; hell, as soon as next season. But Dahlin still needs to prove himself before he can start living up to the hype.

You want to bring up teams? Look at Quinn Hughes and how he turned Vancouver from a bottom 10 team into a playoff team in one season, playing upwards of 25 minutes a night, breaking records in the process and helping his team to within one game of the Western Conference Finals. Buffalo brought in some pieces to compete this fall, so now it's Dahlin's turn to show he can do the same.

Dahlin was on pace for 56P/82GP playing in a bottom 10 offense, while Hughes was on pace for 64P/82GP playing in a top 10 offense. Not much of a difference in production when you consider quality of teammates. Could make the same argument when comparing him to Makar. Got to play in a much better offense, so it's not shocking his numbers are better than Dahlin's.

A lot of a D man's production comes from moving the puck up to forwards on the break out, hoping they can do something with it. Sabres' secondary scoring was laughably bad in 2019/20, so Dahlin didn't pick up as many apples as he would have on a better team.

I like Dahlin more than Makar and Hughes in the defensive end too, just based on my limited eye test though. Haven't seen any advanced stats to back it up. Don't think he's quite at the level of Heiskanen or McAvoy defensively though.

Hard to blame Dahlin for the Sabres struggles. He and Eichel carried the Sabres the best they could. 56P/82GP in a bad offense is incredible production from a 19YR old D. Can't ask for any more than that. Kid is well on his way to becoming an elite #1 D.

 

[Volica]

Defencemen are different than forwards in terms of saying who is best.

Even in those years that Karlsson was doing crazy shit in terms of production, he wasn’t widely regarded as the best dman on the planet. They kind of go through 1-3 year cycles of being considered the best, then being in the top 10, then out of the top 20, then back in the top 5, the top again, etc etc.

I’d say he has the potential to be the best dman on any given year by 2024 through 2035.

 

[hairylikebear]

Dahlin was on pace for 56P/82GP playing in a bottom 10 offense, while Hughes was on pace for 64P/82GP playing in a top 10 offense. Not much of a difference in production when you consider quality of teammates. Could make the same argument when comparing him to Makar. Got to play in a much better offense, so it's not shocking his numbers are better than Dahlin's.

A lot of a D man's production comes from moving the puck up to forwards on the break out, hoping they can do something with it. Sabres' secondary scoring was laughably bad in 2019/20, so Dahlin didn't pick up as many apples as he would have on a better team.

I like Dahlin more than Makar and Hughes in the defensive end too, just based on my limited eye test though. Haven't seen any advanced stats to back it up. Don't think he's quite at the level of Heiskanen or McAvoy defensively though.

Hard to blame Dahlin for the Sabres struggles. He and Eichel carried the Sabres the best they could. 56P/82GP in a bad offense is incredible production from a 19YR old D. Can't ask for any more than that. Kid is well on his way to becoming an elite #1 D.

My vote for the field here is not a knock on Dahlin or even an admission that in 3 years Dahlin can't be the best - but it's very difficult to be the best D-man in the NHL and therefore it's an extremely rare feat for a U23 player. Even Karlsson who already had a Norris victory did not even make the top 3 in his 22 and 23 y/o seasons. Doughty was a finalist at 20 but didn't win his first until age 26 even though he was an elite player all those years.

3 years isn't even enough time to stop considering the current top group of defensemen in Hedman, Josi, Pietrangelo, and Carlson. The young crop right now are still well below that level of play.

 

[The Moose is Loose]

The field. I don’t think McDavid good enough to be taken over the field.

I think it’d take a player winning 5 major trophies (Hart, Lindsay, Ross, Rocket, Smythe) to be considered the best player, until that happens McDavid will have a strong argument for best players for the next 3-5 years. The chances of a non-McDavid player doing that don’t seem great just since it’s so hard to be #1 in multiple years

 

[buud]

argue... bicker, bicker.

Dahlin is fantastic. lots of others too. splitting hairs. i voted the field, simply because of probability.

 

[hairylikebear]

I think it’d take a player winning 5 major trophies (Hart, Lindsay, Ross, Rocket, Smythe) to be considered the best player, until that happens McDavid will have a strong argument for best players for the next 3-5 years. The chances of a non-McDavid player doing that don’t seem great just since it’s so hard to be #1 in multiple years

McDavid has never himself won a Rocket or Smythe, so the best player in the world by those standards would still be Crosby.

I think winning the Hart and Lindsay the same year is enough to call someone the best player in the world at least in that year, so McDavid would have to retake the throne from Draisaitl before we can even measure him against the field moving forward. I think if this poll has proven anything it's that the field in general is heavily underrated

 

[garbageteam]

The Field for sure and that is no knock on Dahlin at all. He is just clearly not head and shoulders above everyone else today like other superstars have been (even McDavid as the best forward in 3 years might not win a poll convincingly) and there are just far too many contenders.

His odds of being the best D-man in the world in 2023 align with his current polling I'd say, 1 in 10.

 

[Sun God Nika]

Very possible but not likely however if I had to put a bet on someone it would be Dahlin he isn't missing a single tool in the toolbox.

 

[Adele Dazeem]

Definitely in the mix along with Chabot, Makar, Hughes, Heiskanen and Jones.

 

[spiny norman]

Lopsided result.