Player Discussion Rasmus Dahlin Part 3- D (1st Overall, 2018, Frölunda HC, SHL)

[Havok89]

Well, OK. A cool nothing story. Dahlin is a bigger talent than what most of the NHL playes are, a talent to the extreme - in that sense he probably backed off cause he KNOW that the forward doesnt have any options, and Dahlin saves himself time and space by winning it back later. So he doesnt think like a NHL:er yet. SMall things. The funny thing here is that Dahlins talent is faaar beyond what Botterill ever had as a player.

And the expectations for Dahlin are a lot higher too. His play defensively has been horrible for about 10 games now. I definitely agree with some in that this was a strange game to bench him. It should have happened in the NYR game.

 

[21]

Maybe Dahlin need more time adjusting to North American hockey. Just like another huge Swedish talent Elias Pettersson he is pretty weak psychically. They could probably skate for ever but they still look like boys out there among men.

Buffalo is scaring me though, I was shocked letting Alex Nylander go and we will see how much patience they have with Dahlin.

They are putting tons of pressure on Dahlin, that's for sure. Limiting his icetime is fine but benching him and thus obviously pointing finger/blaming him is a more drastic move, hopefully Dahlin himself isn't to hard on himself.

Finally Dahlin likes the offensive part of the game but he is currently taking too many risks in his defensive game. It worked in SHL but sometimes not in NHL where you have less time, less space, faster game.

 

[dotcommunism]

He's waiver exempt for 5 years since signing his ELC or until he plays 160 NHL games.

Waiver exemption dropped to 3 years as soon as he stepped onto the ice in game 11 last year, not that it really matters, because he will certainly hit 160 games played before he completes three pro seasons (and his waiver exemption expires immediately upon playing his 160th game, even if he hasn't finished 3 seasons)

 

[Kyndig]

Interesting: ('That’s what big captains do': Inspired Jack Eichel takes... subscription required)
This sheds a bit more light on things.

Also playing zero minutes in the third period was Sabres defenseman Rasmus Dahlin. The healthy 19-year-old was pinned to the bench. The No. 1 overall pick from 2018 took his last shift with 1:37 left in the second period. It was one that general manager Jason Botterill did not like. The puck went into the corner in Buffalo’s zone and Dahlin had the edge in a race with an Ottawa forward. Inexplicably, Dahlin pulled up and slid back, allowing the Senators to gain control. Botterill slammed the table in his press-box suite, stood up from his chair and walked away from the action. When he returned to watch, he stood with his arms crossed.

That's how we feel with these shitty teams you keep giving us. Like Sobotka in the NHL let alone our top 6.

Looking back at the tape I don't see what the big deal is. Dahlin had a 1:40 shift followed by a minute of rest and another 1:40 shift, that's too much ice time in such a short period of time. How are you going to double shift someone to exhaustion and then bench them the rest of the game for being tired? Krueger talks about energy levels and yet I've never seen anyone worse at managing it. (Eichel OT debacle).

The PLAY in question he was obviously gassed and not going to beat him to the puck..and he still won the battle on the boards, led 3 breakouts, and had a blocked shot in just that shift. Go take your temper tantrum elsewhere fathead.

 

[dortt]

Well, OK. A cool nothing story. Dahlin is a bigger talent than what most of the NHL playes are, a talent to the extreme - in that sense he probably backed off cause he KNOW that the forward doesnt have any options, and Dahlin saves himself time and space by winning it back later. So he doesnt think like a NHL:er yet. SMall things. The funny thing here is that Dahlins talent is faaar beyond what Botterill ever had as a player.

remember why Botterill retired as a player and what we have learned about CTE since then. I'd expect strange happens like the one described above out of him. Not to fault Botterill for that, but the Pegulas for hiring him. That stuff was known when he was hired

 

[BananaSquad]

Dahlin needs to be better that’s it. His pier group is outplaying him right now.

 

[Bendium]

The problem with being a bad team for so many years is you are constantly looking to draft picks to save you. This results in very good talent being pushed through essential development phases which stunt the growth of both the player and the team. Very few young players are physically and mentally ready for the jump. It is far better for them to develop their game at lower levels where they can make mistakes and try things. It is important to build a huge reservoir of confidence that you can draw on when the competition gets better. You get that by actually being successful, and dominating play and ice time at the lower levels. When you have a level consistently whipped night in and night out.....then you move up.

Dahlin should have spent the year in Rochester last year getting call ups to introduce him to the north American NHL skill level and let him work on his game and body under less pressure and expectation. He should still be doing that now. They finally made the decision to reset the development curve on Thompson before they completely ruined him. They made the right decision to sent Cousins to juniors. In my opinion, Dahlin and Mittelstadt were not ready and both could use some AHL time.

 

[SwedishFire]

Maybe Dahlin need more time adjusting to North American hockey. Just like another huge Swedish talent Elias Pettersson he is pretty weak psychically. They could probably skate for ever but they still look like boys out there among men.

Buffalo is scaring me though, I was shocked letting Alex Nylander go and we will see how much patience they have with Dahlin.

They are putting tons of pressure on Dahlin, that's for sure. Limiting his icetime is fine but benching him and thus obviously pointing finger/blaming him is a more drastic move, hopefully Dahlin himself isn't to hard on himself.

Finally Dahlin likes the offensive part of the game but he is currently taking too many risks in his defensive game. It worked in SHL but sometimes not in NHL where you have less time, less space, faster game.

This system of letting the worst team, in a over 30 teams leauge todraft first, means that the talent will always get enourmos tons of pressure on their shoulders to prdouce, maybe even be the best scorer in his team, as a 18 years old. Does that really sounds like a good envoirment to learn the NHL gam,e and get better?

No from me.

 

[BananaSquad]

The problem with being a bad team for so many years is you are constantly looking to draft picks to save you. This results in very good talent being pushed through essential development phases which stunt the growth of both the player and the team. Very few young players are physically and mentally ready for the jump. It is far better for them to develop their game at lower levels where they can make mistakes and try things. It is important to build a huge reservoir of confidence that you can draw on when the competition gets better. You get that by actually being successful, and dominating play and ice time at the lower levels. When you have a level consistently whipped night in and night out.....then you move up.

Dahlin should have spent the year in Rochester last year getting call ups to introduce him to the north American NHL skill level and let him work on his game and body under less pressure and expectation. He should still be doing that now. They finally made the decision to reset the development curve on Thompson before they completely ruined him. They made the right decision to sent Cousins to juniors. In my opinion, Dahlin and Mittelstadt were not ready and both could use some AHL time.

Dahlin went first overall, every NHL team
Has him playing day 1 .. not a chance in hell he was going back to Sweden lol.

 

[SwedeChristoffer]

I don't get all of these takes that he came to the league too early...

He did fine last year, both offensively and defensively.

We are seeing two things this season.

1. A coach that is coaching a system that works very poorly with Rasmus skill-set. Rasmus excels at two things

a) Skating with the puck through neutral zone and either generate a scoring chance himself, or pass it to someone else.

b) open up lanes in the opposition defense through cycling the puck in the offensive zone and getting involved in the play.

Kreuger doesn't allow defensemen to lead the rush (if a defenseman is leading the charge, they are without a doubt going to dump it in).

The defense is also at all points shooting point-shots, instead of starting a cycle and keeping the puck in the ozone. (This works very poorly for a team that is built like the Sabres, because either the goalie freezes the puck, which means a faceoff , and they are horrible at faceoffs , or you need a strong netfront presence with players strong on the puck, which the Sabres generally don't have).


2. In Frölunda (and Sweden in general) the coaches doesn't bench players for making mistakes, instead they put them in the same situation again assuming that they will not make the same mistake again.

Kreuger has done the opposite, benching Dahlin, done everything in his power to "protect " Dahlin.

This has made Dahlin doubt himself and as a result he has played even worse.


I.e. this isn't Dahlin being in a sophomore slump, or being this bad all along, or being rushed, it's a problem between Dahlin and Kreuger.

Hopefully they can work it out.
I seriously doubt this new benching will help though, more likely make matters even worse.

 

[dortt]

If Dahlin is not a fit for the system, then Botterill needs to make a very important team decision and do so quickly before he pulls a Darcy and makes the decision too late

 

[SwedeChristoffer]

If Dahlin is not a fit for the system, then Botterill needs to make a very important team decision and do so quickly before he pulls a Darcy and makes the decision too late

I wouldn't say it's a Dahlin issue, it's a team issue really. Since Botts started, his thing has been puckmoving defensemen, the best part of Montours game is his ability to move the puck to the ozone. Pilut did it well last season, not so sure about with this system.
Miller is also a puckmoving defenseman. Jokiharju seems to have a good outlet pass, he is probably the only one who fits this system.

When it comes to the point shots, San Jose does plays that system well, the Sabres don't have players for it though.
It works well for San Jose because they have forwards with grit who go to the hard areas, the Sabres don't.

 

[BuzzKillington90]

I don't get all of these takes that he came to the league too early...

He did fine last year, both offensively and defensively.

We are seeing two things this season.

1. A coach that is coaching a system that works very poorly with Rasmus skill-set. Rasmus excels at two things

a) Skating with the puck through neutral zone and either generate a scoring chance himself, or pass it to someone else.

b) open up lanes in the opposition defense through cycling the puck in the offensive zone and getting involved in the play.

Kreuger doesn't allow defensemen to lead the rush (if a defenseman is leading the charge, they are without a doubt going to dump it in).

The defense is also at all points shooting point-shots, instead of starting a cycle and keeping the puck in the ozone. (This works very poorly for a team that is built like the Sabres, because either the goalie freezes the puck, which means a faceoff , and they are horrible at faceoffs , or you need a strong netfront presence with players strong on the puck, which the Sabres generally don't have).


2. In Frölunda (and Sweden in general) the coaches doesn't bench players for making mistakes, instead they put them in the same situation again assuming that they will not make the same mistake again.

Kreuger has done the opposite, benching Dahlin, done everything in his power to "protect " Dahlin.

This has made Dahlin doubt himself and as a result he has played even worse.


I.e. this isn't Dahlin being in a sophomore slump, or being this bad all along, or being rushed, it's a problem between Dahlin and Kreuger.

Hopefully they can work it out.
I seriously doubt this new benching will help though, more likely make matters even worse.

Your second point makes zero sense as Dahlin has been making the same mistakes for about 10 games. He HAS been put right out there assuming he won’t make the same mistakes, yet here we are

at some point people just need to nut up and realize Dahlin is having issues right now. The same coach that made him have such a great year last year is here. The “system” Krueger is using is irrelevant since his defensive gaffs have to do with quick decision making, correct reads and positioning within the defensive zone.

 

[dortt]

I wouldn't say it's a Dahlin issue, it's a team issue really. Since Botts started, his thing has been puckmoving defensemen, the best part of Montours game is his ability to move the puck to the ozone. Pilut did it well last season, not so sure about with this system.
Miller is also a puckmoving defenseman. Jokiharju seems to have a good outlet pass, he is probably the only one who fits this system.

When it comes to the point shots, San Jose does plays that system well, the Sabres don't have players for it though.
It works well for San Jose because they have forwards with grit who go to the hard areas, the Sabres don't.

exactly. This is an issue for management to make a decision on, which is what any competently managed team would do. Let the coach know his system is not the way the team is constructed, OR bring in players who do fit the system. Given that the system does seem to work somewhat, I'd lean toward option two, but can easily understand the other option as well. Not this endless square peg/round hole that we have seen since the Ruff days.

The decision should be the one that benefits the TEAM the most, not the one that makes a player or coach look the best

 

[SwedeChristoffer]

Your second point makes zero sense as Dahlin has been making the same mistakes for about 10 games. He HAS been put right out there assuming he won’t make the same mistakes, yet here we are

at some point people just need to nut up and realize Dahlin is having issues right now. The same coach that made him have such a great year last year is here. The “system” Krueger is using is irrelevant since his defensive gaffs have to do with quick decision making, correct reads and positioning within the defensive zone.

Let me put it like this then:
The first games of the season he played quite well.
Then he got benched and has been playing poorly in the dzone since. (Afraid to make mistakes rather than playing on instinct as noted above).
However he has been better and better for each game, especially since being paired with Montour.
I think last night was his best game since he was benched.

I think Benching him last night was a big mistake, and I think we will see him play very poorly the following games as a result.

Edit: I should clarify benching him is most likely going to be worse in the near-future.
Hopefully he can work through it and get more used to playing under the "fear" of being benched.

 

[Tatanka]

Interesting: ('That’s what big captains do': Inspired Jack Eichel takes... subscription required)
This sheds a bit more light on things.

Also playing zero minutes in the third period was Sabres defenseman Rasmus Dahlin. The healthy 19-year-old was pinned to the bench. The No. 1 overall pick from 2018 took his last shift with 1:37 left in the second period. It was one that general manager Jason Botterill did not like. The puck went into the corner in Buffalo’s zone and Dahlin had the edge in a race with an Ottawa forward. Inexplicably, Dahlin pulled up and slid back, allowing the Senators to gain control. Botterill slammed the table in his press-box suite, stood up from his chair and walked away from the action. When he returned to watch, he stood with his arms crossed.

I had the same reaction on that play. He could have easily pinned the Sen to the boards or taken the puck away. Whether it was a benchable, who knows but if that was the straw, I get why they want to clean that up.

 

[21]

Comparing to Victor Hedman (another Swedish d-man) he was 20, 26, 23 and 20 points his four first NHL seasons I think. If taken care of him well Dahlin should finally turn into the star you have been dreaming of.

 

[Tatanka]

Comparing to Victor Hedman (another Swedish d-man) he was 20, 26, 23 and 20 points his four first NHL seasons I think. If taken care of him well Dahlin should finally turn into the star you have been dreaming of.

I think most here realize Dahlin is a phenomenal talent. Even phenomenal talents need to learn and continue to grow. Some here read the hype about his potential, i.e. best prospect since Potvin, and are wondering why he isn’t playing like hof Potvin 4/5 years into his career. That is misguided. Dahlin will bounce back. And once he does the little things better, he will be given a longer leash.

 

[21]

I think most here realize Dahlin is a phenomenal talent. Even phenomenal talents need to learn and continue to grow. Some here read the hype about his potential, i.e. best prospect since Potvin, and are wondering why he isn’t playing like hof Potvin 4/5 years into his career. That is misguided. Dahlin will bounce back. And once he does the little things better, he will be given a longer leash.

I also wish he gets a bit stronger, tougher and improving his physical play which something I want for another great Swedish talent I am following, Elias Pettersson. Comparing to Niklas Lidström you obviously don't have to be very physical to become great but anyway, he should grow a bit the following years. Dahlin has some similarities to Lidström in his way of playing. Lidström's timing joining Detroit was really, really good though, an incredible team, sometimes we forget that hockey is a team sport. Also Lidström had not much preassure on him, he was incredibly underrated and not drafted very high (53?).

Dahlin is showing flashes in almost every game but this season more mistakes in the defensive zone?

 

[Tatanka]

I also wish he gets a bit stronger, tougher and improving his physical play which something I want for another great Swedish talent I am following, Elias Pettersson. Comparing to Niklas Lidström you obviously don't have to be very physical to become great but anyway, he should grow a bit the following years. Dahlin has some similarities to Lidström in his way of playing. Lidström's timing joining Detroit was really, really good though, an incredible team, sometimes we forget that hockey is a team sport. Also Lidström had not much preassure on him, he was incredibly underrated and not drafted very high (53?).

Dahlin is showing flashes in almost every game but this season more mistakes in the defensive zone?

I will keep my expectations a bit more reasonable than Lidstrom. Defensively Lidstrom was one of, if not the best I ever saw play. But Nik didn’t come into his own until his mid twenties. His best years were as he approached 30. Dahlin is already contributing offensively and is on a 50 point pace this year. He will get better as he matures. What I think will help him the most is improving his short burst straight line speed, or sprinting. He is not slow, but getting back on a pick faster will give him more time to assess and to close on defenders. His lateral skating is off the charts, but that short burst will help him on both d and o.

 

[21]

I will keep my expectations a bit more reasonable than Lidstrom. Defensively Lidstrom was one of, if not the best I ever saw play. But Nik didn’t come into his own until his mid twenties. His best years were as he approached 30. Dahlin is already contributing offensively and is on a 50 point pace this year. He will get better as he matures. What I think will help him the most is improving his short burst straight line speed, or sprinting. He is not slow, but getting back on a pick faster will give him more time to assess and to close on defenders. His lateral skating is off the charts, but that short burst will help him on both d and o.

Yes, it will be fun following Dahlin. My two favorite defensemen right now is probably Hedman and Makar though. Watching Hedman live in Stockholm recently was fun, he is so good, huge frame but still very mobile and so confident. I really liked watching Ristolainen in Stockholm too, playing a bit similar to Zadorov I think, entertaining guy but perhaps not the strongest one mentally (like Zadorov).

 

[Kyndig]

I had the same reaction on that play. He could have easily pinned the Sen to the boards or taken the puck away. Whether it was a benchable, who knows but if that was the straw, I get why they want to clean that up.

He did though. Dahlin lets up knowing he wouldn't win the race so he pins him against the boards, steals the puck, and then ices it. Dahlin was gasping for air following the icing. We have a faceoff and he passes it out of the zone and heads off for a change.

 

[Tatanka]

He did though. Dahlin lets up knowing he wouldn't win the race so he pins him against the boards, steals the puck, and then ices it. Dahlin was gasping for air following the icing. We have a faceoff and he passes it out of the zone and heads off for a change.

I must be misremembering. I recall a play where the play went wide and he initially went into a shot blocking passive position instead of skating into the play. I thought that was the play in question and I don’t think he got the original man.

 

[SabresSharks]

... Dahlin had a 1:40 shift followed by a minute of rest and another 1:40 shift ...

Those 2 shifts are more than double the length of the average NHL shift. No wonder he was benched.

Don't understand all the fuss in here over a coach disciplining a young player.

 

[Buffaloed]

I had the same reaction on that play. He could have easily pinned the Sen to the boards or taken the puck away. Whether it was a benchable, who knows but if that was the straw, I get why they want to clean that up.

It takes me back to my childhood when I was a piano prodigy. I used to make the same mistake when I played Stravinsky's Trois mouvements de Petrouchka. I practiced 8 hours a day until I finally nailed it. As I was warming up for a recital at Carnegie Hall I made the same damn mistake and my teacher came up behind me and slammed the piano cover down on my hands breaking 7 of my fingers. And so began my love of hockey.