Ranking the top 7 countries

Discussion in 'International Tournaments' started by ElHefe, Dec 12, 2019.

  1. IceHockeyDude

    IceHockeyDude Registered User

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    This type of topic we have not had in some time.
    How would you rank the top SEVEN ice-hockey countries by three categories: Offense, Defense and Goal tending when you are building up a team on best on best tournament?

    In addition there is probably some controversy on which country is the number 7 to make it more interesting.

    So here we go, after doing very hard work on research (about 30-45 minutes) my take is:

    Canada
    Offense: 10
    Defense: 9.5
    Goal tending: 9,2

    USA
    Offense: 9,2
    Defense: 9
    Goal tending: 9

    Russia
    Offense: 9,2
    Defense: 7,5
    Goal tending: 9,2

    Sweden
    Offense: 9
    Defense: 9,2
    Goal tending: 8

    Finland
    Offense: 9
    Defense: 8
    Goal tending: 9,2

    Czech Republic
    Offense: 8,6
    Defense: 7
    Goal tending: 8

    I would be really happy to hear about your thoughts on my subjective understanding about this. And also would be great to see your personal thought on how you'd rank the top 6-7 countries.

    My ratings for country number SEVEN will be published later :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2019
  2. IceHockeyDude

    IceHockeyDude Registered User

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    *Deleted*
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2019
  3. IceHockeyDude

    IceHockeyDude Registered User

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    And the number seven on my list would be Switzerland.

    Offense: 7
    Defense: 7
    Goal tending: 6
     
  4. Statsy

    Statsy Registered User

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    My first suggested tweak would be to up Sweden’s Defensive numbers.
     
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  5. Siludin

    Siludin Registered User

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    Germany and Switzerland are close. Germany also has two NHL goaltenders.
    For Germany you'd have to agree on something like:
    7
    6
    7 (+)

    It's probably a wash. Seider, plus Stutzle being drafted this year could push Germany past Switzerland pretty quick. Germany has the best forward and best goalie on either team already.
     
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  6. Czechboy

    Czechboy Registered User

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    It's a tough call as the Swiss have been very good for a long time now. They have a roster that can beat anyone (and has beat everyone somewhere at some point). They also have Josi which is currently better than anything Germany has.

    On the other hand.. 2 NHL goalies vs 0 NHL goalies and one Drai could be enough to beat a team in a close game.
     
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  7. Czechboy

    Czechboy Registered User

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    As always, I'm happy when Czechs are automatically in top 6 and not in the Germany/Switzerland/Slovakia debate. I feel they might be closer to that grouping than the big 5.

    We do have a lot of good things going on which keeps us relevant:

    Pastrnak!!
    3 NHL goalies all playing good to great
    Necas, Chytil and Zadina all have good seasons as up and comers
    Hertl and Krejci are a good 1-2 punch at Centre
    Vrana is looking to be a 60 point guy and a potential 30 goal scorer
    Kempny is doing very well
    Hronek is a stud but unnoticed due to his team rebuilding

    I do wonder how our D got a 7 though? I think our best possible D roster is
    Hajek (injured), Simek (injured), Gudas, Kempny, Hronek and Rutta

    Then it's euro guys (which consist of a LOT of failed NHL guys like Musil, Sklenicka, Jordan, Sustr, Jerabek and Moravcik) or Masin, Zboril

    ** Polak is retired from National team
    *** Czechs will never send an all NHL team because we won a gold in 98 and a world's in 2010... this means we should always send weaker rostes filled with Extraliga and KHL guys and leave the NHLers at home. So replace Vrana with a Zohorna, Chytil with a Zohorna and Pastrnak with Gulas. Sorry, had to get that off my chest!
     
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  8. IceHockeyDude

    IceHockeyDude Registered User

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    They are already at top 2 with 9,2. Should they be at the same level as Canada with 9,5? I just don't see that.
     
  9. jonas2244

    jonas2244 Registered User

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    It's always the question how and what you rate but Switzerland has an advantage over Germany because there is much more depth. Switzerland has 12 NHL regulars, Germany 6. And also in Europe I think Switzerland has just more player at a certain, international level which makes it a little bit easier to get results at the WC when you have a lot of injuries.

    I just noticed: The Czechs have 7 D-men currently playing in the NHL, Switzerland has 6. CZE has a clear advantage on Offence and Goalkeeping though.
     
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  10. MaxV

    MaxV Registered User

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    Russia's D profile is moving up. Still behind Canada, USA and Sweden, but definitely an encouraging season this year.

    Comparing it to what they brought to the 2016 World Cup, a significant spike up.
     
  11. Czechboy

    Czechboy Registered User

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    Czech's don't have a Josi... Hronek might get there one day but, currently, we have nothing compared to him.
     
  12. theslatcher

    theslatcher Registered User

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    Sweden
    Why don't you, if I may ask?
     
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  13. IceHockeyDude

    IceHockeyDude Registered User

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    When you compare the top 8-10 defensemen between the too I would rather pick the top 10 Canadians. When it comes to quantity Canada has had 120 dmen skating this season against Sweden's 33.
     
  14. AB13

    AB13 Registered User

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    Victor Hedman - Erik Karlsson
    OEL - John Klingberg
    Mattias Ekholm - Rasmus Dahlin
    Oscar Klefbom - Hampus Lindholm

    That is not worse than

    Reilly - Doughty
    Chabot - Burns
    Giordano - Letang
    Makar - Ellis

    I don’t think it is really that important to compare how many defencemen Sweden and Canada have in the NHL, you don’t need 120 defencemen for one team. European countries will always have less players in the NHL than North American ones, many Canadians and Americans wouldn’t have made it if they were European. Scouts don’t look at Europe as much, of course.

    Some other tweaks could be: with the way Swedish goalies are playing, I would bump that up to a 8.5 or 9. I would downgrade the Finnish defence to a 7 or 7.5 and bring USAs goaltending down to an 8.5.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2019
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  15. Max McBolt

    Max McBolt Registered User

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    You are forgetting Shea Weber in that Canadian Top 8.

    Regardless I think it would be fair to have Sweden and Canada a wash on defense.

    9.5 each
    or 10 each whatever
     
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  16. IceHockeyDude

    IceHockeyDude Registered User

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    I would add Weber and Hamilton to Canada's lineup. Klingberg isn't having a great season and same goes with OEL. Dahlin would not make the Canada's lineup at the moment. This is why I would give a slight edge to Canada especially if 1-2 Swedish top dmen were unavailable. Canada has better options to be recalled if some of those were not available.
    We could make a poll about this and I believe most would agree with me.

    Perhaps I could rise up the Swedish defensive score to 9,3. The differences are marginal tho when you choose the best possible 8 players.
     
  17. gotyournose

    gotyournose Registered User

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    Canada

    Offence 10
    Defenceman 9.5
    Goaltending 9

    My defenceman for Canada as of December 14, 2019

    Reilly - doughty
    Pietrengelo - parayko
    Morrissey - Burns
    Chabot - maker/Weber

    Canada's left handed defenceman is a real area of concern. Gone are the days of elite franchise LH defenceman like Pronger, Niedermayer and Keith. Vlassic is struggling. Muzzin is not a desirable option. Giordano will not be chosen by hockey Canada because he has no big game experience.

    Pietrengelo has to play the left side because he's the best option.

    Price, Holtby and Fleury are the goalies. I believe price and Holtby can do the job
     
  18. AB13

    AB13 Registered User

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    I do not think we can base too much of our judgement of players on who is having the best season, considering it has only been 30 games. Klingberg and OEL have been very good for years now, are still relatively young, and are both heating up. Canada really lacks a Hedman/Karlsson type, that pairing probably consists of the two best defensemen in the world. It is a very marginal difference between them, I agree there, but I would give a slight edge to Sweden.
     
  19. Jaska

    Jaska Registered User

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    Sweden the easy choice.
     
  20. karhukissa

    karhukissa Registered User

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    Oh what a shock, i would've knew your nickname just by looking at the text. But keep going, you honestly make Finns look good here by taking this "homerism" to a completely next level
     
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  21. AB13

    AB13 Registered User

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    Because what I said is totally unreasonable and blatant homerism. Calling someone a homer as soon as they remotely criticise your favorite players isn't a good look.
     
  22. IceHockeyDude

    IceHockeyDude Registered User

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    It is looking promising for sure. Finland's situation is at least as promising. At the moment I would rank Finland's defense slightly ahead of Russia's (8 and 7,5). In 1-2 years it could be 8,5 for both.

    1-2 years ago our defense could have been ranked about 6 so things can take a big turn in a short period of time.
     
  23. karhukissa

    karhukissa Registered User

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    Dude, please. Filip Forsberg miles ahead of Teräväinen, Zibanejad comfortably better than Panarin, Dahlin way better than Makar and million miles ahead of Heiskanen who lacks skills and whatnot. Oh i see a topic about Räty from Finland, better to strike the thread and remind that Gunler way better.

    I know that WC loss was though for you like we saw in the summer, but just let it go. Homerism is natural and we're all guilty as charged, but you take it to completely new level which is unnecessary. Sweden is a great hockey nation, just enjoy it.
     
  24. AB13

    AB13 Registered User

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    You genuinely said Barkov is better than Draisaitl. After saying that, don’t accuse me of being a homer. We can all point to hot takes from other people, but that is not the same thing as being a homer.

    How is my previous post history even relevant to this comment, which wasn’t unreasonable at all? Why bring that up if it has no relevance? I always say what I genuinely beilieve, I am fully aware that my judgement may be clouded though, but I am never a homer intentionally. “ Everyone thinks their wife is the prettiest” very much applies to you too, looking at their post history, so don’t accuse me of being a homer!

    The Dahlin and Heiskanen part isn’t really controversial, only finns and Stars fans think so. Dahlin has won every poll ever made about him, Makar and Heiskanen going forward by a considerable margin, so that isn’t really a strange opinion.

    I never ever said Gunler was better than Räty, don’t make things up!
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2019
  25. IceHockeyDude

    IceHockeyDude Registered User

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    Well this poll seems to agree Barkov being better than Draisaitl with 664 voter sample size.
    Matthews vs Barkov vs Draisaitl

    Then there is this poll of Heiskanen's and Dahlin's career with 13% favour for Dahlin. However this season Heiskanen's stats are 33 GP, 21 points +/- = +6 and Dahlin with 25 GP and 17 points +/- +3. Dahlin has a one goal and Heiskanen has 7 goals.
    Heiskanen vs Dahlin - Better hockey career?
     
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