Ranking the 90s Expansion Teams

[Stephen]

How do you rank the 90s expansion teams that came in between 1991-92 and 1993-94? We have the San Jose Sharks, who came in first as a weird branching off of the Minnesota North Stars, followed by the Tampa Bay Lightning and Ottawa Senators in 1992-93 and then the Mighty Ducks of Anaheim and Florida Panthers in 1993-94.

All teams have had a fairly uneven history,

San Jose was dreadful to start, became a blue collar/Euro underdog team that made the playoffs and pulled off a few upsets, went back in the toilet and then re-emerged as a perennial contender/playoff underachiever. Overall, they've been pretty much near the top of the west for years now but the cup has eluded them. This year they seem to be on a bit of a decline.

Tampa Bay: started off very respectably with Brian Bradley and Darren Puppa and the expansion crew the first few years, made the playoffs in 1996 and then went back in the toilet when they moved out some of their young core. They rebuilt with Lecavalier, St. Louis, Richards, Kubina, Khabibulin and Boyle, won a cup in 2004, and then had to strip down after the lockout. In recent years they've retooled and are looking as strong as ever this year.

Ottawa: dreadful to start with, built methodically through the draft, built a great young core in the early 2000s, were perennial contenders and a model franchise for player development, suffered some playoff failures and have been on the decline since their finals appearance in 2007. Now they look like they're bottoming out and will rebuild once again.

Anaheim: started off decently with Kariya and Selanne leading the way, had a Cinderella cup run in the midst of some lean building years and then Burke came in and sorted out a cup win, followed by a quick decline. Now they're in a retooling mode.

Florida: started off very well, achieved a lot of success in the playoffs with a blue collar team and great goaltending, transitioned to a skill team for a short while with the acquisition of Pavel Bure, and then they hit a brick wall. Have suffered a prolonged failed rebuild in the early to mid 2000s, haven't made the playoffs in almost a decade and are probably on the cusp of another total rebuild.

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[andreydali19]

Just within the span of the 90s:

1. Anaheim
2. San Jose
3. Ottawa
4. Florida
5. Phoenix
6. Tampa

 

[dmacin2*]

Just within the span of the 90s:

1. Anaheim
2. San Jose
3. Ottawa
4. Florida
5. Phoenix
6. Tampa

I am pretty sure that the question isnt how they performed in the span of the 90s.

Also Phoenix was not an expansion team.

My order is

1. Tampa Bay
2. Anaheim
3. San Jose
4. Ottawa
5. Florida

This was actually very hard for me as the only one who I didn't consider for number 1 was Florida.

They have all been to the finals except San Jose. Which is weird because San Jose has the strongest fanbase and is a very rock solid organization.

Tampa got the nod as number 1 because of the Cup and the players that have played and still play their.

Anaheim is number 2 by default as they have also won a cup and had some great players play their.

3 and 4 are interchangable as both teams started off just terrible and then became perrenial contenders only to fail in the playoffs every year.

5. Florida is just horrible. Since inception and even in 1996 their roster looked like and expansion team. Except for maybe one or two players a year.

 

[rocsfeather]

To each their own but I wouldn't say finishing 4th in the west/quarterfinals, game 7 of the semifinals the next year, and then missing the playoffs by a handful of points while being in 6th this year is a quick decline. Not to say we haven't been worse since the cup win, because we have been.

 

[Kyle McMahon]

I think Anaheim has to be considered #1. They've never really been a bad team, and are the only team with multiple appearances in the final.

San Jose ought to be the #1 on this list, but playoff underachievments of the last few years keep them behind the Ducks. They've won a playoff round in 9/18 seasons, which is nothing to sneeze at.

I ranked Tampa Bay ahead of Ottawa in the other thread, but I'm starting to lean towards flipping them, despite Tampa Bay's Cup.

In their 17 seasons of existence, they've probably been amongst the five worst teams in the league in 10 of them. Ottawa had a run of over a decade where they were a playoff team, and were considered a contender in a few of those years.

I think Florida is clearly last. Playoffs in just 3/16 seasons, and now hold the record for the most consecutive years out of the post-season.

 

[Hyperkookeez*]

1. Anaheim - great core leading them right now, won a cup, and their lows weren't as low as the other expansion franchises
2. San Jose - even though they've got an underwhelming playoff record, they've been a contender for almost a decade which is impressive
3. Tampa - only had a handful of good seasons, but they won a cup
3. Ottawa - spent a decade as a playoff team, but no cup, and the future looks weak
3. Nashville - they've done a lot with little, but their playoff record is underwhelming
6. Florida - no explanation needed

 

[Corey Perry*]

1 Anaheim
2 Tampa Bay
3 San Jose
4 Ottawa
5 Nashville
6 Atlanta
7 Florida

Atlanta goes above Florida just because they have had more star players. And I think a division championship is a little bit better because it means that they were good for a whole season, not just hot for a stretch.

 

[jkrx]

1. Tampa Bay, they keep avoiding the constant rebuilding phase other expansion team struggles with.

2. Ottawa, This team has been strong for so long now and came incredibly close to a cup.

3. San Jose, Experienced a goon period during the 90s but has always been a strong team.

4. Anaheim, This team were so bad during the disney era that I couldn't rank them higher.

5. Nashville, Sticking to their principles and has built a solid team. Needs that little extra to really start to advance.

6. Florida, Stuck in a rebuilding phase that keeps looping from season to season.

7. Atlanta, haven't really impressed me at all, yet. This season might change my mind if they can get it going.

 

[jkrx]

1 Anaheim
2 Tampa Bay
3 San Jose
4 Ottawa
5 Nashville
6 Atlanta
7 Florida

Atlanta goes above Florida just because they have had more star players. And I think a division championship is a little bit better because it means that they were good for a whole season, not just hot for a stretch.

Florida Panthers of '96 would most likely had won the divisions title with current format. That team just played in a much stronger division than Atlanta is now and they were good for that whole season.

 

[tony d]

All-Time it's:

1) San Jose
2) Tampa Bay
3) Ottawa
4) Anaheim
5) Florida

 

[MadArcand]

1. Tampa Bay, they keep avoiding the constant rebuilding phase other expansion team struggles with.

2. Ottawa, This team has been strong for so long now and came incredibly close to a cup.

3. San Jose, Experienced a goon period during the 90s but has always been a strong team.

4. Anaheim, This team were so bad during the disney era that I couldn't rank them higher.

5. Nashville, Sticking to their principles and has built a solid team. Needs that little extra to really start to advance.

6. Florida, Stuck in a rebuilding phase that keeps looping from season to season.

7. Atlanta, haven't really impressed me at all, yet. This season might change my mind if they can get it going.

Ottawa, Tampa and San Jose were both much worse on multiple occasions than Anaheim ever was, and have as many SC finals and wins combined as Anaheim does...

 

[Chumley]

1 Anaheim
2 Tampa Bay
3 San Jose
4 Ottawa
5 Nashville
6 Atlanta
7 Florida

Atlanta goes above Florida just because they have had more star players. And I think a division championship is a little bit better because it means that they were good for a whole season, not just hot for a stretch.

I agree but would put Florida ahead of Atlanta.

 

[jkrx]

Ottawa, Tampa and San Jose were both much worse on multiple occasions than Anaheim ever was, and have as many SC finals and wins combined as Anaheim does...

Ottawa was a very bad team at the beginning I agree but it only took them four seasons to become an established playoff team while I would argue that Anaheim just recently became a solid team with sporadic appareances in the playoffs pre-lockout (with success no doubt).

Tampa I might rethink. They were a decent team during the Crisp era but then fell into the abyss.

San Jose? They've only missed the playoffs during 5 of 19 season and basically been a top contender. The only set back for me is that they havent reached the finals.

New ranking

Ottawa
San Jose
Anaheim/Tampa
Nashville
Florida
Atlanta

If Anaheim gets far this season I will rank them higher though.

 

[rocsfeather]

1 Anaheim
2 Tampa Bay
3 San Jose
4 Ottawa
5 Nashville
6 Atlanta
7 Florida

Atlanta goes above Florida just because they have had more star players. And I think a division championship is a little bit better because it means that they were good for a whole season, not just hot for a stretch.

Looking back at the standings for 2007 when Atlanta won the division, I don't think it's all that impressive.

They had 97 points, which won the division but was 5th overall in the conference (though the 3rd seed obviously). Tampa Bay, the 7 seed, was only 4 points behind them too. Their goal differential was +1 and they got swept by the 6 seed New York Rangers. Even more, the West that year had 7 of 8 teams that broke 100 points (lowest being 7th seed Minnesota at 104...WOW), whereas only 4 teams of 8 in the East had 100 points or more. Just seems like they played in an easier conference and in a very easy division at the time.

 

[Kyle McMahon]

I'm surprised by the lack of respect Anaheim is getting in here. I can understand (though disagree with) ranking San Jose or Ottawa ahead of them on the basis of those two teams being amongst the league's elite teams for an extended period of time, despite neither winning a Cup.

But Tampa Bay? Both teams have won a Cup, and the Ducks have been very clearly better if you look at the rest of their body of work.

 

[ES]

First five years
1. Florida
2. San Jose
3. Anaheim
4. Tampa Bay
5. Ottawa

All seasons
1. Anaheim
2. San Jose
3. Ottawa
4. Tampa Bay
5. Florida

 

[jkrx]

I'm surprised by the lack of respect Anaheim is getting in here. I can understand (though disagree with) ranking San Jose or Ottawa ahead of them on the basis of those two teams being amongst the league's elite teams for an extended period of time, despite neither winning a Cup.

But Tampa Bay? Both teams have won a Cup, and the Ducks have been very clearly better if you look at the rest of their body of work.

Im suprised by how much respect they have. They have three(!) great seasons. They've missed the playoffs 9 times out of 17 (4 consecutive) and lost the first round twice and second round twice. One division title.

Ottawa has 12 playoff berths in 18 seasons (11 consecutive). Four division titles. One conference titles. Much of this during a period where the franchise were facing bankruptcy.

San Jose have 13 playoff berths in 19 seasons(6 consecutive). Five division titles and two conference titles.

 

[MadArcand]

Im suprised by how much respect they have. They have three(!) great seasons. They've missed the playoffs 9 times out of 17 (4 consecutive) and lost the first round twice and second round twice. One division title.

Ottawa has 12 playoff berths in 18 seasons (11 consecutive). Four division titles. One conference titles. Much of this during a period where the franchise were facing bankruptcy.

San Jose have 13 playoff berths in 19 seasons(6 consecutive). Five division titles and two conference titles.

Playoff series record:
ANA - 11-6
OTT - 8-12
SJS - 11-13
TBL - 5-4

Seasons under .300:
ANA - 0
OTT - 4
SJS - 3
TBL - 2

Bottom 2 league standings placements:
ANA - N/A
OTT - 1st, 1st, 1st, 1st
SJS - 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd
TBL - 1st, 1st, 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd

 

[YNWA14]

Ottawa also won the president's trophy.

 

[jkrx]

Playoff series record:
ANA - 11-6
OTT - 8-12
SJS - 11-13
TBL - 5-4

Seasons under .300:
ANA - 0
OTT - 4
SJS - 3
TBL - 2

Bottom 2 league standings placements:
ANA - N/A
OTT - 1st, 1st, 1st, 1st
SJS - 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd
TBL - 1st, 1st, 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd

There series stats are not in anyway intresting as it only shows that gone deep on occasion. Anaheim peak in those stats because they had sporadic playoff appereances and then vanished. Just because they played great in three playoffs does that in anyway mean they are a more succesful franchise.

Seasons under .300 was intresting though but as I said after those very very bad seasons both Ottawa and San Jose had a solid core and were contenders. Anaheim was not. Anaheim still needed 11 years to start building a stable core.

 

[MadArcand]

There series stats are not in anyway intresting as it only shows that gone deep on occasion. Anaheim peak in those stats because they had sporadic playoff appereances and then vanished. Just because they played great in three playoffs does that in anyway mean they are a more succesful franchise.

Seasons under .300 was intresting though but as I said after those very very bad seasons both Ottawa and San Jose had a solid core and were contenders. Anaheim was not. Anaheim still needed 11 years to start building a stable core.

Actually the playoff series stats show that Ottawa and San Jose have been horrible chokers for the most part.

Personally, I always saw the Ottawa = contender as a myth on the level of Canucks = contender in times of WCE. Both were consistently overrated, one-line teams.

 

[seventieslord]

What is the all-time winning percentage of each franchise? I think Nashville, a team with multiple 100-point seasons and no truly bad ones, is being underrated here. Yeah, they can't win a playoff series but most teams wouldn't beat the ones they lost to.

Average out each franchise's regular season win% and playoff win%, (which heavily weighs playoff success, is it should) - and there's your answer, IMO.

*by this metric, Atlanta and their 0-4 record would easily be last; not sure that's a fair way to calculate it, but they should finish last regardless.

 

[overpass]

Actually the playoff series stats show that Ottawa and San Jose have been horrible chokers for the most part.

Personally, I always saw the Ottawa = contender as a myth on the level of Canucks = contender in times of WCE. Both were consistently overrated, one-line teams.

Ottawa a one-line team? Was that the line with Marian Hossa or the line with Daniel Alfredsson? Or even the line with Martin Havlat, for a few years?

 

[MadArcand]

Ottawa a one-line team? Was that the line with Marian Hossa or the line with Daniel Alfredsson? Or even the line with Martin Havlat, for a few years?

Since when does one player make a line?

Ottawa's .600+ seasons and the 50+ point forwards in those:

2002-03: Hossa (80), Alfredsson (78), White (60), Havlat (59), Bonk (54) - one line + Alfredsson + overachieving White -> basically one-line team

2005-06: Heatley (103), Alfredsson (103), Spezza (90), Schaefer (50) -> prototypical one-line team

2000-01: Yashin (88), Hossa (75), McEachern (72), Alfredsson (70), Bonk (59) -> not a one-line team, but not from the Pizza line era when they were heavily overrated

2006-07: Heatley (105), Spezza (87), Alfredsson (87) -> another prototypical one-line team

1998-99: Yashin (94), McEachern (56), Dackell (50) -> one-MAN team even

2003-04: Hossa (82), Alfredsson (80), Havlat (68), Spezza (55) -> almost one-line team

The Pizza line era Sens, which saw the most Ottawa hype, were a pure one-line team.

 

[jkrx]

Since when does one player make a line?

Ottawa's .600+ seasons and the 50+ point forwards in those:

2002-03: Hossa (80), Alfredsson (78), White (60), Havlat (59), Bonk (54) - one line + Alfredsson + overachieving White -> basically one-line team

2005-06: Heatley (103), Alfredsson (103), Spezza (90), Schaefer (50) -> prototypical one-line team

2000-01: Yashin (88), Hossa (75), McEachern (72), Alfredsson (70), Bonk (59) -> not a one-line team, but not from the Pizza line era when they were heavily overrated

2006-07: Heatley (105), Spezza (87), Alfredsson (87) -> another prototypical one-line team

1998-99: Yashin (94), McEachern (56), Dackell (50) -> one-MAN team even

2003-04: Hossa (82), Alfredsson (80), Havlat (68), Spezza (55) -> almost one-line team

The Pizza line era Sens, which saw the most Ottawa hype, were a pure one-line team.

Ok.... then

Anaheim '07 - Selänne (94), McDonald (78) were a two man team?

and there is a big difference between overachieving and injury-free.