Ranking NHL Teams By Forwards

[Ryan Michaels]

Hertl or Nugent-Hopkins ... who would you prefer everybody? I'm taking Nugent-Hopkins.

Hertl just got 59 even strength points, not particularly close, unless you think last season was an outlier and not an upward trend based on development and increased opportunity, which I think it pretty clearly was.

 

[tiburon12]

It is their "system" because you want to get the puck in the hands/on the stick of your best players. That is why San Jose's defence is ranked No. 1. And, subsequently, why San Jose's forwards are ranked lower than anticipated. The forwards wouldn't be as good without the defencemen and without that offence from the defence. I separated the two positions and ranked them accordingly. I don't know why that is so hard to understand/comprehend.

It's hard to understand/comprehend because it's in inauthentic way to rank players. I'm really just nonplussed that you say these rankings are about individual talent and not systems, and then ding Sharks players for playing in a system that utilizes offense from defense. For someone who "wrote" a whole article adding 3 metrics together, im surprised you cant see that your logic doesnt add up at all. and "lower than anticipated"? by whom? you? you didnt do any analysis beyond just your gut feeling and clearly, clearly didnt watch enough of every team (which to be fair is really hard for anyone to do).

I also dont understand how you can watch a video like this - Hertl's goals from last season - and with a straight face make a claim that his offensive output is a product of the defense.

 

[Larry Fisher]

Not that I am appealing to majority, but the majority opinion is pretty clearly in favor of Hertl.

HFBoards Top 31 NHL Centers - #28

Hertl got 39 votes in that poll. RNH got 3.

The fact that you would think majority opinion would be in favor of RNH shows - once again - that your haven’t done nearly enough research on these players.

I said the majority of NHL general managers. There is a difference between GMs and fans. And I said a fairly even split, slightly in favour of Nugent-Hopkins.

 

[Larry Fisher]

Hertl just got 59 even strength points, not particularly close, unless you think last season was an outlier and not an upward trend based on development and increased opportunity, which I think it pretty clearly was.

Again, I think if Nugent-Hopkins had Burns and Karlsson on Edmonton's blue line and he wasn't stuck playing behind McDavid and Draisaitl in offensive situations or had any sort of talent on his wings, that yes he would be putting up the same or better numbers than Hertl. I am simply comparing the two players in terms of talent level, not in terms of production thanks to their teammates/situations. I would still take Nugent-Hopkins if given the choice between the two.

 

[Viqsi]

That's the biggest difference, yes. The forwards are comparable and based on Jones-Dell last season, I'm not convinced San Jose's goaltending is much better either. So the defence is the main thing separating San Jose and Edmonton — as evidenced by my positional rankings.

Um. Apart from the Hertl/RNH debate, it might be worth noting that, unlike Edmonton, San Jose has actual second-line and third-line players playing on the second and third lines. Just saying.

 

[Ryan Michaels]

Again, I think if Nugent-Hopkins had Burns and Karlsson on Edmonton's blue line and he wasn't stuck playing behind McDavid and Draisaitl in offensive situations or had any sort of talent on his wings, that yes he would be putting up the same or better numbers than Hertl. I am simply comparing the two players in terms of talent level, not in terms of production thanks to their teammates/situations. I would still take Nugent-Hopkins if given the choice between the two.

RNH has played a variety of situations in his career and been put in every opportunity to succeed. No, Edmonton hasn't had a puck moving dman like Burns or Karlsson throughout his tenure but most teams don't, and you're weighing that way too heavily against Hertl. For instance you ding Hertl because RNH has to play behind McDavid but he just had his career year there, where he managed 26 powerplay points with McDavid and Drai! RNH obviously spent the season far from the primary target of the opposition and also got to play with him some at even strength. Before McDavid, RNH settled into his groove as a 60 point player, now he's gotten a bump due to his favourable situation, even still he didn't match what Hertl did this year in overall production and even strength, where RNH wasn't out there with two 100 point scorers, it wasn't even close.

Does Hertl benefit from Burns and Karlsson? Sure, you can find reasons players succeed in any situation in the league sometimes due a surplus of talent, sometimes due to being relied above your offensive capabilities due to a lack, at some point you have to credit the player. Hertl just had a great season in his own right that is better than anything RNH has done. Like I said, you'd have a better case of discrediting it as an aberration of a year rather than putting the credit so uniformly on the Sharks D, maybe Hertl doesn't hit this level again, although I wouldn't bet on it, but if last season is who they are I'm taking Hertl, every time.

 

[Viqsi]

RNH has played a variety of situations in his career and been put in every opportunity to succeed. No, Edmonton hasn't had a puck moving dman like Burns or Karlsson throughout his tenure but most teams don't, and you're weighing that way too heavily against Hertl. For instance you ding Hertl because RNH has to play behind McDavid but he just had his career year there, where he managed 26 powerplay points with McDavid and Drai! RNH obviously spent the season far from the primary target of the opposition and also got to play with him some at even strength. Before McDavid, RNH settled into his groove as a 60 point player, now he's gotten a bump due to his favourable situation, even still he didn't match what Hertl did this year in overall production and even strength, where RNH wasn't out there with two 100 point scorers, it wasn't even close.

Does Hertl benefit from Burns and Karlsson? Sure, you can find reasons players succeed in any situation in the league sometimes due a surplus of talent, sometimes due to being relied above your offensive capabilities due to a lack, at some point you have to credit the player. Hertl just had a great season in his own right that is better than anything RNH has done. Like I said, you'd have a better case of discrediting it as an aberration of a year rather than putting the credit so uniformly on the Sharks D, maybe Hertl doesn't hit this level again, although I wouldn't bet on it, but if last season is who they are I'm taking Hertl, every time.

Nicely put. Indeed, this is a nice example of my biggest gripe with the OP - guys who aren't already Recognized Significant Players in his eyes are treated as though they're inevitably the product of other Recognized Significant Players (whereever they can be found) and subsequently dismissed.

 

[Viqsi]

In light of that, by the way, I should probably be offering a "mea culpa" on the accusations I've made towards the OP of being biased against Columbus (and other teams) in particular. It looks now like it's not a dismissal of the Jackets per se; it's just an incapability (or unwillingness) to recognize quality outside of major stars, and in consequence overlooking guys who are good players in their own right. While that's still annoying because a lot of Jackets players are getting dismissed that way, that's evidently a symptom rather than the disease.

It's still absurdly lazy - for good illustrations as to why it's a bullshit way to evaluate player quality, look at St. Louis this past year and Vegas the year prior. But at least it's not a long dead team reputation bias.

 

[Larry Fisher]

RNH has played a variety of situations in his career and been put in every opportunity to succeed. No, Edmonton hasn't had a puck moving dman like Burns or Karlsson throughout his tenure but most teams don't, and you're weighing that way too heavily against Hertl. For instance you ding Hertl because RNH has to play behind McDavid but he just had his career year there, where he managed 26 powerplay points with McDavid and Drai! RNH obviously spent the season far from the primary target of the opposition and also got to play with him some at even strength. Before McDavid, RNH settled into his groove as a 60 point player, now he's gotten a bump due to his favourable situation, even still he didn't match what Hertl did this year in overall production and even strength, where RNH wasn't out there with two 100 point scorers, it wasn't even close.

Does Hertl benefit from Burns and Karlsson? Sure, you can find reasons players succeed in any situation in the league sometimes due a surplus of talent, sometimes due to being relied above your offensive capabilities due to a lack, at some point you have to credit the player. Hertl just had a great season in his own right that is better than anything RNH has done. Like I said, you'd have a better case of discrediting it as an aberration of a year rather than putting the credit so uniformly on the Sharks D, maybe Hertl doesn't hit this level again, although I wouldn't bet on it, but if last season is who they are I'm taking Hertl, every time.

That's a very solid comment, making many good points. The rebuttal would again hit on how much Hertl's supporting cast helped him achieve those totals in comparison to Nugent-Hopkins, who like you said had a career year with far inferior linemates and defencemen helping him generate that offence. For that reason, I'm still taking Nugent-Hopkins, but you make a very convincing case for Hertl. Well stated.

 

[Ryan Michaels]

That's a very solid comment, making many good points. The rebuttal would again hit on how much Hertl's supporting cast helped him achieve those totals in comparison to Nugent-Hopkins, who like you said had a career year with far inferior linemates and defencemen helping him generate that offence. For that reason, I'm still taking Nugent-Hopkins, but you make a very convincing case for Hertl. Well stated.

I concede that Hertl has a better supporting cast for the most part, however, the point about his career year is that it came on the back of 26 powerplay points paired with the best player in the world and a bonafide superstar. I think if RNH was going to become a 1C he would've, of course Hertl is arriving at that point in his mid-20s as well. At the end of the day it's difficult to isolate the value of a player from their situation because there are unbelievable levels of nuances we could argue forever. At a certain point you have to trust the information you can glean and Hertl just had a terrific year. I don't mean to devalue RNH's impressive powerplay production entirely but it is traditionally more volatile than even strength, and when you talk about moving him to Hertl's situation I suspect those would be the numbers to change most drastically. Look at Phil Kessel in Toronto vs. Pittsburgh, two totally different situations and his production mostly remained the same except for a 90 plus point season where he converted over 40 ppp with Sid and Geno. Except in extreme cases it often turns out that the player moved ends up the same whether their situations improve or worsen(in terms of supporting casts). Anyway, I think we can agree to disagree, I enjoyed reading though and appretiate that you've come here to elaborate on your reasoning when called upon to do so. Good stuff.

 

[Larry Fisher]

I concede that Hertl has a better supporting cast for the most part, however, the point about his career year is that it came on the back of 26 powerplay points paired with the best player in the world and a bonafide superstar. I think if RNH was going to become a 1C he would've, of course Hertl is arriving at that point in his mid-20s as well. At the end of the day it's difficult to isolate the value of a player from their situation because there are unbelievable levels of nuances we could argue forever. At a certain point you have to trust the information you can glean and Hertl just had a terrific year. I don't mean to devalue RNH's impressive powerplay production entirely but it is traditionally more volatile than even strength, and when you talk about moving him to Hertl's situation I suspect those would be the numbers to change most drastically. Look at Phil Kessel in Toronto vs. Pittsburgh, two totally different situations and his production mostly remained the same except for a 90 plus point season where he converted over 40 ppp with Sid and Geno. Except in extreme cases it often turns out that the player moved ends up the same whether their situations improve or worsen(in terms of supporting casts). Anyway, I think we can agree to disagree, I enjoyed reading though and appretiate that you've come here to elaborate on your reasoning when called upon to do so. Good stuff.

Again, good points all around. No real rebuttal to that. Hertl is a quality second-line (1B) centre, the same as Nugent-Hopkins, and I still think it would be pretty evenly split if the 32 NHL general managers had the choice between those two for their teams.

 

[sabremike]

I have absolutely no idea how you could rank us ahead of the Canes. Our bottom 6 is absolutely terrible, if you gave Carolina the right to pluck any of them the only one they'd take is E-Rod. Vessey and Sheary are just awful negative value players, the likes of which this organization has had far far too many of this past decade (not surprisingly we are by far the worst team of the 2010's).

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

That's a very solid comment, making many good points. The rebuttal would again hit on how much Hertl's supporting cast helped him achieve those totals in comparison to Nugent-Hopkins, who like you said had a career year with far inferior linemates and defencemen helping him generate that offence. For that reason, I'm still taking Nugent-Hopkins, but you make a very convincing case for Hertl. Well stated.

RNH produced 40 of his 69 points with McDavid on the ice with him, between 5on5 and PP minutes. You're making it sound as though he produced that much with minimal ice time or help from McDavid.

Not sure how much more help Hertl gets with Burns and Karlsson compared to RNH with McDavid (and Draisaitl). One gets clearly more help from the defense, while the other gets clearly superior forward help.

 

[Larry Fisher]

I have absolutely no idea how you could rank us ahead of the Canes. Our bottom 6 is absolutely terrible, if you gave Carolina the right to pluck any of them the only one they'd take is E-Rod. Vessey and Sheary are just awful negative value players, the likes of which this organization has had far far too many of this past decade (not surprisingly we are by far the worst team of the 2010's).

A Sabres fan down on the Sabres? I think the talent is there, but the coaches haven't been able to uncork/unleash it yet. All those young guys are coming back another year older and better. I think Buffalo will surprise you. That said, I'm a little surprised other commenters didn't single out the Sabres as being too high and that it took a Sabres fan to do so. As mentioned in previous replies, I am probably a little higher on Buffalo and Philadelphia in general than others and thus perhaps the Sabres and Flyers are higher for me than most pundits/analysts.

 

[Holymakinaw]

Toronto with the 2nd best ranked offence........7th best ranked defence..........9th best ranked Goaltending........

This is about right.

 

[Viqsi]

A Sabres fan down on the Sabres? I think the talent is there, but the coaches haven't been able to uncork/unleash it yet. All those young guys are coming back another year older and better. I think Buffalo will surprise you. That said, I'm a little surprised other commenters didn't single out the Sabres as being too high and that it took a Sabres fan to do so. As mentioned in previous replies, I am probably a little higher on Buffalo and Philadelphia in general than others and thus perhaps the Sabres and Flyers are higher for me than most pundits/analysts.

All these comments and you don't remember my taking you to task on those two teams in particular early on in the defense discussion? I'm feeling kind of neglected here.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Again, I think if Nugent-Hopkins had Burns and Karlsson on Edmonton's blue line and he wasn't stuck playing behind McDavid and Draisaitl in offensive situations or had any sort of talent on his wings, that yes he would be putting up the same or better numbers than Hertl. I am simply comparing the two players in terms of talent level, not in terms of production thanks to their teammates/situations. I would still take Nugent-Hopkins if given the choice between the two.

RNH stuck behind McDavid in offensive situations? You do realize that as Sidney the Kidney just told you, he scored 40 of his 69 points with Connor McDavid on the ice? There's another team you don't seem to know much about. RNH receives a massive benefit from playing with McDavid on the PP.

I said the majority of NHL general managers. There is a difference between GMs and fans. And I said a fairly even split, slightly in favour of Nugent-Hopkins.

Yes, but you asked other fans on here, which showed that you weren't aware that pretty much nobody else would come even close to supporting your opinion of RNH>Hertl. While ones' knowledge of HFBoards isn't a pre-requisite for having the knowledge to write something like this, I think anybody who follows hockey closely and has a good grip on the league will be able to tell you that almost every fan would prefer Hertl to RNH. It's quite telling that your only argument is that GMs would prefer RNH; something that is completely an assumption of yours without any evidence, and something that we can't possibly quantify. There are mounds of evidence suggesting that Hertl is a superior player to RNH and that he has been for years now, and the consensus opinion of fans around the league does reflect that Hertl>RNH.

The fact that you don't support the opinion that Hertl>RNH, and that you haven't provided any argument against it besides "I think GMs would agree with me" and "RNH is stuck behind McDavid" just shows, once again, that you were never fit to write an article like this. At this stage of his career, a player like Hertl is known around the league based on his playoff performances on a contending team, based on his big goals, and based on high profile moments like guaranteeing victory against Vegas in game 6 and then scoring the game winning goal in 2OT on the PK in that game 6. He scored 6 goals and 9 points in 10 games in last year's playoffs, he scored 35 goals and 74 points in 77 games this season, and he scored 10 goals and 15 points in 19 playoff games this season. If you're counting, that's 51 goals and 98 points in his last 106 games.

Tomas Hertl is not some obscure 3rd line player who had a decent season playing for a non-playoff team in a small market. Again, I am saying this because it needs to be emphasized: this is a player that is known around the league. The fact that you knew so little about Tomas Hertl that you suggested that he might be bumped to the right wing next to Dylan Gambrell, and that you suggested on here that RNH is ahead of Hertl and that GMs might agree with you, shows that you do not have the knowledge and credibility required for anybody to take this seriously. Again, I do not care that it is Hertl in particular; it could have been anybody in the NHL from any team. I am zeroing in on Hertl in particular because I know a lot about this player, and so I know how little somebody must know about Hertl and his team in order to suggest that Hertl could be the 2nd line RW, and that RNH is superior to him.

But again, I realize that this level of ignorance is not just limited to players on my team. You showed your ignorance on other players around the league when you said that RNH is stuck behind Connor McDavid. I am not an Oilers fan, but I could have told you off the top of my head that 40 of RNH's 69 points came with Connor McDavid on the ice. You are comparing nothing but raw point totals while ignoring that RNH is in a far more favorable position to put up points than Hertl. He played 249:58 on the power play with McDavid, in a role where he was the tertiary threat behind McDavid and Draisaitl, and somebody is going to rack up secondary assists in that situation. It is no shock that 13 of RNH's 25 PP points in those minutes with McDavid were secondary assists. By comparison, Hertl played 221 TOTAL minutes on the power play, and recorded 2 TOTAL secondary assists on the power play, because Hertl plays a net-front trigger role on the PP which doesn't translate to secondary assists the way that RNH's role. Hertl's primary scoring rate on the power play was actually higher than RNH's, despite the fact that Edmonton's PP scored goals at a higher rate with McDavid on the ice (9.43 PPG/60) to SJ's PP with Hertl on the ice (9.2 PPG/60).

I don't know what else to say. I probably shouldn't have even gone as far in-depth as I did on this one, because I really didn't need to. It's clear as day that Hertl is better than RNH, and it's clear as day that your logic (Hertl in a better opportunity than RNH, who is "behind" McDavid) that leads you to conclude RNH is superior is extremely flawed, and not based on a good in-depth analysis of these players. Being that these players are both 1st round draft picks, 25/26 years old, centers, who have played hundreds of games in this league, these are players that you should know a lot about if you want to go about ranking the forwards on each team in the NHL. Maybe you don't know about a couple of fourth liners on each team, and that's forgivable and doesn't automatically wreck your credibility. But this? Hertl on the Sharks' 2nd line RW, RNH>Hertl and most GMs would agree with this, RNH buried behind McDavid...all of these statements just show that you do not know your stuff well enough to write a piece like this. You need to do a lot more research next time you do this.

 

[Nashology]

Late to the party here but I am in agreeance with the SJ majority. They have Couture, Hertl, Meier, Kane, Labanc, Thornton. All 5 of them put up 50+ pts. I understand they did not replace Pavelski and it hurts, but Nyqvist was not a loss. The guy put up like 10 pts in SJ and was a ghost. They are a 13-17 team in my opinion with their current forward group.

 

[Larry Fisher]

All these comments and you don't remember my taking you to task on those two teams in particular early on in the defense discussion? I'm feeling kind of neglected here.

I do remember you bringing up the teams, but I don't remember you saying anything about Buffalo's forwards in particular? More so about the defences, I remember that. But my forward ranking for Buffalo felt a bit ambitious when I hit publish — with Eichel's group just ahead of McDavid's — but nobody really raised that red flag until now. Understandable, but I think the Sabres' forward group will surprise under the influence of Ralph Krueger and with that young core another year older and better.

 

[Larry Fisher]

RNH stuck behind McDavid in offensive situations? You do realize that as Sidney the Kidney just told you, he scored 40 of his 69 points with Connor McDavid on the ice? There's another team you don't seem to know much about. RNH receives a massive benefit from playing with McDavid on the PP.



Yes, but you asked other fans on here, which showed that you weren't aware that pretty much nobody else would come even close to supporting your opinion of RNH>Hertl. While ones' knowledge of HFBoards isn't a pre-requisite for having the knowledge to write something like this, I think anybody who follows hockey closely and has a good grip on the league will be able to tell you that almost every fan would prefer Hertl to RNH. It's quite telling that your only argument is that GMs would prefer RNH; something that is completely an assumption of yours without any evidence, and something that we can't possibly quantify. There are mounds of evidence suggesting that Hertl is a superior player to RNH and that he has been for years now, and the consensus opinion of fans around the league does reflect that Hertl>RNH.

The fact that you don't support the opinion that Hertl>RNH, and that you haven't provided any argument against it besides "I think GMs would agree with me" and "RNH is stuck behind McDavid" just shows, once again, that you were never fit to write an article like this. At this stage of his career, a player like Hertl is known around the league based on his playoff performances on a contending team, based on his big goals, and based on high profile moments like guaranteeing victory against Vegas in game 6 and then scoring the game winning goal in 2OT on the PK in that game 6. He scored 6 goals and 9 points in 10 games in last year's playoffs, he scored 35 goals and 74 points in 77 games this season, and he scored 10 goals and 15 points in 19 playoff games this season. If you're counting, that's 51 goals and 98 points in his last 106 games.

Tomas Hertl is not some obscure 3rd line player who had a decent season playing for a non-playoff team in a small market. Again, I am saying this because it needs to be emphasized: this is a player that is known around the league. The fact that you knew so little about Tomas Hertl that you suggested that he might be bumped to the right wing next to Dylan Gambrell, and that you suggested on here that RNH is ahead of Hertl and that GMs might agree with you, shows that you do not have the knowledge and credibility required for anybody to take this seriously. Again, I do not care that it is Hertl in particular; it could have been anybody in the NHL from any team. I am zeroing in on Hertl in particular because I know a lot about this player, and so I know how little somebody must know about Hertl and his team in order to suggest that Hertl could be the 2nd line RW, and that RNH is superior to him.

But again, I realize that this level of ignorance is not just limited to players on my team. You showed your ignorance on other players around the league when you said that RNH is stuck behind Connor McDavid. I am not an Oilers fan, but I could have told you off the top of my head that 40 of RNH's 69 points came with Connor McDavid on the ice. You are comparing nothing but raw point totals while ignoring that RNH is in a far more favorable position to put up points than Hertl. He played 249:58 on the power play with McDavid, in a role where he was the tertiary threat behind McDavid and Draisaitl, and somebody is going to rack up secondary assists in that situation. It is no shock that 13 of RNH's 25 PP points in those minutes with McDavid were secondary assists. By comparison, Hertl played 221 TOTAL minutes on the power play, and recorded 2 TOTAL secondary assists on the power play, because Hertl plays a net-front trigger role on the PP which doesn't translate to secondary assists the way that RNH's role. Hertl's primary scoring rate on the power play was actually higher than RNH's, despite the fact that Edmonton's PP scored goals at a higher rate with McDavid on the ice (9.43 PPG/60) to SJ's PP with Hertl on the ice (9.2 PPG/60).

I don't know what else to say. I probably shouldn't have even gone as far in-depth as I did on this one, because I really didn't need to. It's clear as day that Hertl is better than RNH, and it's clear as day that your logic (Hertl in a better opportunity than RNH, who is "behind" McDavid) that leads you to conclude RNH is superior is extremely flawed, and not based on a good in-depth analysis of these players. Being that these players are both 1st round draft picks, 25/26 years old, centers, who have played hundreds of games in this league, these are players that you should know a lot about if you want to go about ranking the forwards on each team in the NHL. Maybe you don't know about a couple of fourth liners on each team, and that's forgivable and doesn't automatically wreck your credibility. But this? Hertl on the Sharks' 2nd line RW, RNH>Hertl and most GMs would agree with this, RNH buried behind McDavid...all of these statements just show that you do not know your stuff well enough to write a piece like this. You need to do a lot more research next time you do this.

Nugent-Hopkins didn't get a ton of even-strength ice-time with McDavid, so the fact that many of his points still came when he was on the ice with McDavid goes to show his potential when surrounded by high-level offensive talent (like San Jose has to offer Hertl). If Nugent-Hopkins got a full season on McDavid's wing, he might have put up Draisaitl-esque numbers. Well, maybe not 50 goals and 100 points, but he would have outproduced Hertl for sure.

Instead, Nugent-Hopkins was limited to power-play time with Edmonton's top offensive talents, while having to carry a second line that most often featured Lucic or Khaira on the left and Puljujarvi or Chiasson on the right. That's not much of a supporting cast, not compared to Hertl, who played 21 per cent of his even-strength ice-time with Couture and Meier on that loaded top line, plus 27 per cent with Kane and Donskoi.

You tell me, who is in the better position to succeed:

Kane-Hertl-Donskoi
Hertl-Couture-Meier

(with Burns and Karlsson on the back end)

Lucic-RNH-Chiasson
Khaira-RNH-Puljujarvi

(with Klefbom and Nurse on the back end)

 

[GOALOFSSON]

I do remember you bringing up the teams, but I don't remember you saying anything about Buffalo's forwards in particular? More so about the defences, I remember that. But my forward ranking for Buffalo felt a bit ambitious when I hit publish — with Eichel's group just ahead of McDavid's — but nobody really raised that red flag until now. Understandable, but I think the Sabres' forward group will surprise under the influence of Ralph Krueger and with that young core another year older and better.

We did add Johansson and Vesey, Olofsson will also be a new body.

Two top-6 players there, plus I think Mitts will be a top-6 quality player this season so make it three.

Your ranking is fine, might even move them up a touch

Also, there is a decent part of the Sabres fanbase that is in a permanent negative state and will remain so until we make the playoffs.

 

[featherhawk]

the hawks are ranked too low as far as forwards are concerned.

 

[Barrie22]

i like how a team that had no 50 point players, no 20 goal players. is being ranked above a team that has 6 50 point players and 3 30 goal scorers still on the team from last season.

lets put it this way, just by forwards alone that are left from last years team. the forwards scored 201 goals for the sharks, the entire coyotes team combined had 209 goals. some one is really going to try and logically explain that the sharks have a worse forward core then the coyotes?

either this ranking took way to much potential into account for some teams/players and discredited other teams for the same thing. because as is this ranking is garbage.

 

[Larry Fisher]

i like how a team that had no 50 point players, no 20 goal players. is being ranked above a team that has 6 50 point players and 3 30 goal scorers still on the team from last season.

lets put it this way, just by forwards alone that are left from last years team. the forwards scored 201 goals for the sharks, the entire coyotes team combined had 209 goals. some one is really going to try and logically explain that the sharks have a worse forward core then the coyotes?

either this ranking took way to much potential into account for some teams/players and discredited other teams for the same thing. because as is this ranking is garbage.

Kessel is a big addition for the Coyotes. Health has also been a big factor for them, so full seasons of Schmaltz and Dvorak should do wonders. Hayton could be another impact rookie. Soderberg makes them deeper down the middle. And, yes, so many of their forwards are young and now just entering their prime with the potential to take big steps forwards from 2018-19 to 2019-20. All of that played into Arizona temporarily being ranked ahead of San Jose, but now that Thornton has re-signed that is no longer the case (as mentioned in the analysis and repeatedly here).

 

[Viqsi]

either this ranking took way to much potential into account for some teams/players and discredited other teams for the same thing. because as is this ranking is garbage.

That's pretty much exactly what happened. If a player isn't already widely media-recognized AND wasn't a favorite of the OP, said player got dismissed and/or underrated. My earlier grumpy rants notwithstanding, I don't think it's team-specific (if you look carefully, you'll see examples on most of the teams), but some suffered in the rankings more than others, and San Jose's forward ranking is just one of the more egregious examples.