Ranking NHL Teams By Forwards

[BonMorrison]

Again, I was using this as my starting point: San Jose Sharks Depth Charts Projection - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Perhaps we should hound CapFriendly to update their depth charts to better reflect the lineups for the coming season. But CapFriendly is likely waiting to see how the preseason plays out. No point changing them now and then changing them again in two weeks when DeBoer does something different in camp.

Or perhaps I should have used Daily Faceoff instead: Team Line Combinations

That looks closer to the feedback I'm getting here, at least for San Jose.

Or use my thread

Speculation: - 2019-20 NHL Lines & Lineup Notes Thread (as of Sept. 3rd '19 @ 9:00am)

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

I'm ranking the forward groups as a whole. The names don't change if they are on different lines.

Yes, they do, even if you don’t realize it. Any team with Dylan Gambrell as their 2nd line center is going to look a hell of a lot different than a team with Dylan Gambrell on the 4th line and Tomas Hertl as their 2nd line center.

And that doesn’t really change my point either. If you know so little about the team and their players to think that Kevin Labanc will play the 2nd line LW, Dylan Gambrell will play the 2nd line C, and Tomas Hertl will play the 2nd line RW, then you know so little about these players, their respective careers, and their positions in the organization that you really shouldn’t be ranking them.

In addition, you still got the forward groups wrong, because of what I mentioned below.

Makes sense, thanks for the clarification. As mentioned, I was working from the CapFriendly Depth Chart tool as a base for all of my lineups and I tweaked some of them that I knew were out of whack. That said, the players remain the same regardless of their alignment, so I'm not sure that changes my forward ranking for San Jose. But it does make the depth chart look better, which could have impacted my ranking at the time. I did feel San Jose was low there, but I also knew they lost a lot in Pavelski, Nyquist, Donskoi and Thornton as of now.

And again, GM Doug Wilson, head coach Peter DeBoer, and Joe Thornton himself have all confirmed that Thornton will return next season. The most casual of Sharks fans are aware of this, and most NHL fans who are even semi-passionate about the sport are aware of this as well.

If you didn’t know something as simple as this, and you didn’t bother to put in the effort to do something as simple as ask some posters on HFBoards about this, then you shouldn’t have made these articles ranking all of these forward groups that you know very little about.

This doesn’t exclusively apply to the Sharks, or to your thread about forwards, as I’m sure that you made similar mistakes on other teams.

 

[Viqsi]

I'm ranking the forward groups as a whole. The names don't change if they are on different lines.

The impact they have on the ice - and therefore their effectiveness - does change a great deal. PLD and Dubinsky might both be playing on the Jackets regardless, but the team's results are very different if Dubinsky is put in at #1C and PLD at #4C.

* * *​

This doesn’t exclusively apply to the Sharks, or to your thread about forwards, as I’m sure that you made similar mistakes on other teams.

Rest assured, he did.

 

[Pure Slaughter Value]

With the defence ranking, a commenter here hit the nail on the head. He was responding to Vegas' ranking: "Vegas' D is a product of their play. Judging them on individual merits will cause rankings like this despite them playing a lot better than 29th as a unit."

Exactly and precisely. These rankings were heavily weighted on talent level and Vegas was negatively impacted by that. As were the Islanders. Those groups get the job done, but they don't jump off the page at you. They are better on the ice as a unit than on paper as individuals.

Understandable. I think they'll be much better this year individually. Pulock took some time getting acclimated and Leddy took basically 60 games til he looked normal.

It's the only position now and in the future I'm psyched about the Isles. Pulock will be a legitimate number 1 dman this year, Toews is excellent and should make a great number 3. Couple those two offensive players with steady Pelech and Mayfield and you have two solid top pairs. Having Leddy/Boychuk playing on the third pair really helps both of them. There's the familiarity between the two of them and they won't have to spend as much on the ice so they should be fresh. Having Pulock, Wilde, Aho and a couple of other tweeners gives the Isles a ton of depth and tradable commodities over the next couple of years.

I think Varlamov will surprise people and Greiss will be hungry as he knows he's playing to get a contract from another team next year.

Offense is in shambles. Really need one of Walhlstrom or Bellows to develop into an eventual first-liner and Koivula to continue making progress as a center. He's a smart hockey player and has the size to anchor a legitimate scoring and checking third line.

 

[Kevin27NYI]

The whole is greater than the sum of its parts

True, but the parts are very good too.

 

[saintunspecified]

It depends if we are ranking based on last season or the coming season? Chicago made a couple key additions to round out their defence and should be much better on the back end. I looked forward as much as I looked back for these rankings.

Olli Maata was getting scratched. Calvin de Haan is always a play away from oblivion. And if you're looking forward, NYI is better than both.

 

[HockeyDBspecialist]

Pavelski isn't that much of a loss

what? it is lmao. Pavelski is an elite player with the best deviation in the league... he will still score 60p+ and be a machine in Playoffs.

it's a big hole IMO.

 

[tarheelhockey]

The team with the best forward in the NHL is almost in the bottom-3rd of the forwards ranking.

That just says... so much.

 

[MattySnipes]

What goes into your team forward rankings, if you don't mind me asking? Are you using raw production, per 60 numbers, even strength scoring, etc? Or is it just your personal opinion of where you think they fit? Pretty good list though, other than a couple teams.

 

[Merrrlin]

Isles finished top 5 last year, rankings have our offense 26, defense 20, goaltending 21. Swapped Brassard for Flip, Lehner for Varlamov.

The defence is underrated but the others I get. Should have kept Lehner and signed fewer expensive bottom 6ers.

 

[Merrrlin]

The team with the best forward in the NHL is almost in the bottom-3rd of the forwards ranking.

That just says... so much.

About the source, or the team? lol

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

what? it is lmao. Pavelski is an elite player with the best deviation in the league... he will still score 60p+ and be a machine in Playoffs.

it's a big hole IMO.

Are you talking about the kind of machine that was once gave you many years of good service, but hardly works anymore? Because Pavelski has scored 5 5-on-5 points in his last 35 playoff games.

 

[Kevin27NYI]

The defence is underrated but the others I get. Should have kept Lehner and signed fewer expensive bottom 6ers.

It is what it is with the forward group, not going to go out of my way for a higher ranking but defense and goaltending definitely should have been. Even if you thought it was crazy to get rid of Lehner, Greiss almost put up the same numbers so..

 

[djpatm]

The team with the best forward in the NHL is almost in the bottom-3rd of the forwards ranking.

That just says... so much.

.... there are 11 other forwards

 

[tarheelhockey]

.... there are 11 other forwards

Really? Tell me more.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Boy! This is serious stuff!
Good effort
Too many saying their team is too low in a vacuum without saying who they should be above. Some teams have to be ranked low. It doesn’t mean that they don’t have some good pieces, it just means that the writer likes other teams better. It’s also one persons opinion. No need to get upset if you don’t agree.
For what it’s worth, I think the Canucks are about right here.
The only one I really see that is out of place is the Sharks. They have a decent forward group.

 

[LetsGoBLUES91]

Sharks at 25 is nuts.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

The team with the best forward in the NHL is almost in the bottom-3rd of the forwards ranking.

That just says... so much.

It says that the Oilers have poor depth at forward. I think the ranking even with McDavid and Drai is fairly accurate. It’s not like basketball where two stars can dominate the complete game.

 

[Muffinalt]

You prefer Hertl in the middle with one of the prospects on the other wing, then a third scoring line with Gambrell centering that trio if Thornton doesn't return? What does your depth chart look like with and without Thornton/Marleau?

Not a SJS fan fyi (CHI). Yes, Couture/Hertl of course, it's clearly one of the best 1-2 punches in the league.

I agree with a poster above if youre making such a league wide list you better familiarize yourself with the correct lineups. Otherwise whats really the point?

 

[tarheelhockey]

It says that the Oilers have poor depth at forward. I think the ranking even with McDavid and Drai is fairly accurate. It’s not like basketball where two stars can dominate the complete game.

No, but your depth has to be really goddamn bad to get to the point where you're in the bottom-third of the league despite having the clearcut best player.

 

[Hockey4Lyfe]

The Sharks are the only “wtf” in there. But let’s be honest. If they were in the back half of the teens, the list would be pretty spot on.

 

[BHD]

I would have the Jackets higher, even without Panarin and Duchene. The team was 11th in offence before acquiring Duchene.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Pavelski isn't that much of a loss? He lead the Sharks in goals last year and has lead the team in goals 5 out of the last 6 years.

I would have the Sharks much higher (10 spots?) but your comment about Pavelski not being much of a loss is equally as embarrassing.

Are the Preds too high to anyone else? I like the Avalanche and Jets just from the Central more than the Preds forwards and both are lower.

No, it’s really not.

 

[The Nuge]

Imo, you have our defense too low, and our forwards too high. Our top 3 centers averaged 97 points last year (how insane is that?!), but beyond that, we suck. Neal should help if he bounces back, but our lack of depth scoring should push us down. Best case scenario, we have 4 top 6 forwards.

 

[txpd]

These guys seriously think the Flyers have a better team than the Capitals.