Rank these prospects

[thestonedkoala]

That would make Enforcers franchise players.

Not really...See, I think scorers would bring more than enforcers simply because the NHL is moving away from the fighting.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

Not really...See, I think scorers would bring more than enforcers simply because the NHL is moving away from the fighting.

It is trying but the real fans want it. See how smart the NHL is, pissing off old time fans to apeal to the new non violence crowd.

 

[MrMastodonFarm*]

My term for franchise is this: Will the player in question bring fans to the game? If they do, then they are a franchise player. If you don't think O'Sullivan is going to bring people to the XCel Center...Well you aren't looking at the same prospect I am.

Then your term would be totally incorrect.

 

[AgentNaslund*]

I could say the same about your "Patrick O'Sullivan has Franchise player potential"... and the fact that you have Wild players at 1, 2, 3, and 5.

AS much as I hate the Wild, Even I agree with his rankings. I take all those guys over WellWood, (Career AHLer).

 

[sunb]

Not sure, that's a hypothetical situation.

Until someone can prove that Kyle Wellwood isn't as good as atleast Brad Boyes, I see no reason why Wellwood's ranked behind Boyes.

Size...

Wellwood: 5'10, 190
Boyes: 6'1, 195

Junior career...

Wellwood: 344 points in 244 games, +85
Boyes: 309 points in 233 games, +58

AHL...

Wellwood: 108 points, 124 games, +1
Boyes: 183 points, 206 games, +9

NHL...

Wellwood: 1 game
Boyes: 1 game

Age...

Wellwood: May of 1983
Boyes: April of 1982

- Neither are great skaters.
- Wellwood is a better offensive player.
- As of today, the better defensive player is a toss up.
- Boyes plays a more physical game.

It can be said that if Wellwood weren't a prospect of the Toronto Maple Leafs, he wouldn't be looked at under the same light as he is. The guy's one of the most skilled AHL prospects and seems to be looked at as a long shot...yet he's only 21 years old and the 7th leading scorer in the AHL. Of the top 50 point producers in the AHL, there are only 7 younger than him.

Spezza
Bergeron
Staal
Brown
Kesler
Stajan
Lupul

Yet, he's looked at as a long shot because of his lack of breakaway speed, size (which shouldn't be an issue), and style of play (finesse).

It is hard to judge two players' future NHL careers simply by infering with their junior stats.

Case in point, Spezza vs Wellwood. Leaf fans kept on trying to compare Wellwood to Spezza even though Spezza is much much better.

Spezza has 353 points in 228 games in the OHL.
Wellwood has 344 points in 244 games in the OHL.

Spezza was born in July 1983
Wellwood was born in May 1983

But is Spezza better? Yes, much much better.

Differences between Spezza, Boyes and Wellwood will be amplified by many folds when all three have their tries at the NHL. In the OHL, slow small players may get by with elegant stick-handling but in the NHL, Boyes and Spezza won't be hindered by their size. In addition, their hockey sense and quick releases will allow them to better adapt to the NHL.

 

[leafaholix*]

It is hard to judge two players' future NHL careers simply by infering with their junior stats.

Case in point, Spezza vs Wellwood. Leaf fans kept on trying to compare Wellwood to Spezza even though Spezza is much much better.

Spezza has 353 points in 228 games in the OHL.
Wellwood has 344 points in 244 games in the OHL.

Spezza was born in July 1983
Wellwood was born in May 1983

But is Spezza better? Yes, much much better.

Differences between Spezza, Boyes and Wellwood will be amplified by many folds when all three have their tries at the NHL. In the OHL, slow small players may get by with elegant stick-handling but in the NHL, Boyes and Spezza won't be hindered by their size. In addition, their hockey sense and quick releases will allow them to better adapt to the NHL.

I have never ever ever in my life met any TML fan that's even attempted to compare Jason Spezza to Kyle Wellwood.

Stop pulling crap like that just to make TML fans look stupid.

 

[mooseOAK*]

It is hard to judge two players' future NHL careers simply by infering with their junior stats.

Case in point, Spezza vs Wellwood. Leaf fans kept on trying to compare Wellwood to Spezza even though Spezza is much much better.

Spezza has 353 points in 228 games in the OHL.
Wellwood has 344 points in 244 games in the OHL.

Spezza was born in July 1983
Wellwood was born in May 1983

But is Spezza better? Yes, much much better.

Differences between Spezza, Boyes and Wellwood will be amplified by many folds when all three have their tries at the NHL. In the OHL, slow small players may get by with elegant stick-handling but in the NHL, Boyes and Spezza won't be hindered by their size. In addition, their hockey sense and quick releases will allow them to better adapt to the NHL.

Yeah, Boyes will be knocking guys over, not.

As far as hockey sense goes, you obviously haven't seen the offensive plays Wellwood makes on a game by game basis that no players in the AHL can do. And, he isn't slow.

 

[Olorin]

I have never ever ever in my life met any TML fan that's even attempted to compare Jason Spezza to Kyle Wellwood.

Stop pulling crap like that just to make TML fans look stupid.

I think his point was that stats can make players seem comparable when they are not. As far as Wellwood vs. Boyes, it's far too early to make judgements. Both have shown promise.

 

[leafaholix*]

I think his point was that stats can make players seem comparable when they are not. As far as Wellwood vs. Boyes, it's far too early to make judgements. Both have shown promise.

No, he said Leaf fans kept comparing Wellwood to Spezza... considering I've never ever seen this happen before (seriously), he's just trying to make TML fans look stupid.

If you haven't noticed, J=N has been following me around, trying to put up a fight against any of my POV's. Even if they're not related to the Canucks.

I can say the sky is blue, he'd come back with "how do you know that?"

 

[Olorin]

No, he said Leaf fans kept comparing Wellwood to Spezza... considering I've never ever seen this happen before (seriously), he's just trying to make TML fans look stupid.

If you haven't noticed, J=N has been following me around, trying to put up a fight against any of my POV's. Even if they're not related to the Canucks.

I can say the sky is blue, he'd come back with "how do you know that?"

Ah, I missed the part in his post where he made reference to Leafs fans comparing Spezza and Wellwood.

I interpreted his argument the way I stated it above, and it seemed like a relevant one in that light.

 

[Epsilon]

No, he said Leaf fans kept comparing Wellwood to Spezza... considering I've never ever seen this happen before (seriously), he's just trying to make TML fans look stupid.

If you haven't noticed, J=N has been following me around, trying to put up a fight against any of my POV's. Even if they're not related to the Canucks.

I can say the sky is blue, he'd come back with "how do you know that?"

I guess you missed that ridiculously long Wellwood thread where Messenger was doing exactly that.

 

[Vic Rattlehead*]

I guess you missed that ridiculously long Wellwood thread where Messenger was doing exactly that.

The one where he said that Crosby had time to catch Wellwood in the skills department?

 

[Vic Rattlehead*]

Yeah, Boyes will be knocking guys over, not.

As far as hockey sense goes, you obviously haven't seen the offensive plays Wellwood makes on a game by game basis that no players in the AHL can do. And, he isn't slow.

He won't be knocking guys over, but he did bulk up over the summer.

 

[sunb]

No, he said Leaf fans kept comparing Wellwood to Spezza... considering I've never ever seen this happen before (seriously), he's just trying to make TML fans look stupid.

If you haven't noticed, J=N has been following me around, trying to put up a fight against any of my POV's. Even if they're not related to the Canucks.

I can say the sky is blue, he'd come back with "how do you know that?"

I am not shadowing anyone. You just seem to be having so much time on your hands that you're posting everywhere. The threads I do happen to visit, I either contribute or point out errors and there are an embarassing number of your posts that contain errors.

And you are a red-faced liar because there was a thread comparing Spezza and Wellwood by Leaf fans. Not only that you made many posts in that thread. I don't care if a poster makes mistakes and I wouldn't call him dumb by any stretch. But it is pretty weak to lie and lie about this subject when there is evidence galore available to shoot you down.

Here is the "Higgins or Wellwood or Spezza thread"

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=114763&page=33&pp=15
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=114763&page=33&pp=15
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=114763&page=33&pp=15

READ MY NEXT POST TO SEE SOME EXAMPLES!

 

[sunb]

Here are some juicy excerpts from the Spezza vs Wellwood comparisons.

There are scores and scores (over 10+) comparisions of Wellwood to Spezza.


"""""""""
Perhaps a better 1-1 comparison will be with Ottawa WunderKind Spezza ..

This changes things a little ... Spezza Flaws as be TSN .... Must work on his skating ability, play without the puck and physical toughness. Isn't very good defensively.

Now we are really changing the size factor. However Spezza is not considered to be overly defense orientated, not that great a skater, but successful at both the NHL and AHL Levels ..

St. Johns Wellwood goes head to head this week verses Binghamton's Spezza and currently they sit 3rd Spezza's 29 points & 5th Wellwood's 26 points ..

Jason Spezza Center
Born Jun 13 1983 -- Brampton, ONT
Height 6.03 -- Weight 200
Selected by Ottawa Senators round 1 #2 overall 2001 NHL Entry Draft

YEAR......TEAM.....................GP.....G....A.. ...PTS...+/-
2004/2005 BINGHAMTON......21.....9...20....29....+7
2003/2004 OTTAWA.............78....22...33....55...+22

http://hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdis...pid[]=42311

Kyle Wellwood Center
Born May 16 1983 -- Oldcastle, ONT
Height 5.11 -- Weight 190
Selected by Toronto Maple Leafs round 5 #134 overall 2001 NHL Entry Draft


YEAR......TEAM...............GP .....G....A...PTS.....+/-
2004/2005 ST. Johns......20.....12...14....24....+9
2003/2004 ST. Johns......76.....20...35....55...-14

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/....php3?pid=50104

Now does this change things in comparison and do they make the results different ??.
"""""

""
Now I changed the situation Spezza at 18 and Wellwood at 18 in the same OHL produced similar POINTS ... Spezza at 21 verses Wellwood at 21 are producing POINTS at the AHL level at similar rates .. what happened in between is different granted by WHY can't you compare these players based on the AHL scoring race and determine anything, because they are of different sizes??

The players are mutually exclusive .. Nothing that Spezza does makes Wellwood a better prospect and Vice Versa ... but if you compare the one thing we have that is measurable and always an accepted fact which is POINTS IN A LEAGUE, which are a gauge of individual success..
""

""
Comparing Wellwood to Spezza now? This Wellwood love affaire is getting ridiculous!
""

""



Correct ... However had Wellwood made the NHL .. He could also have claimed the same thing ... (In reference to Spezza's NHL success)

Yet this year because of the lockout , Spezza in the AHL .. Yet his goals scored and Points at the AHL level is about what Wellwood Has ..

The comparison to higgins another prospect made Style 2-way, Defense awareness and skating speed an issue ..

Now against a young player like Spezza who again is the same age ... all Wellwoods same things Skating, Defensive Awareness and Physical play are all the same and the only difference is height and currently at the AHL that is not making him a more dominate point getter ....""


""
Offensively i'd take:
1. Spezza
2. Wellwood
3. Higgins

Defensively i'd take:
1. Higgins
2. Wellwood
3. Spezza

Spezza has franchise written all over, only if he gets the playing time he will be putting up very good numbers. too bad he's playing with the Sens, would love to see him playing with the Leafs
"""

 

[sunb]

I have never ever ever in my life met any TML fan that's even attempted to compare Jason Spezza to Kyle Wellwood.

Stop pulling crap like that just to make TML fans look stupid.

Lie Lie Lie Lie Lie Lie Lie.......................


http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?...3&page=33&pp=15

The best part? Carl O'Steen made many posts in the same thread!



""
I am fully aware of that ... because of the 5 year rule of the CHL Spezza was able to go to the AHL instead of back to junior .. that is understood .. I never meat to imply = (equal) just because they where traded for each other ...just point out how they have been connected in ways before. But up for another discussion if you have a young budding player like, Spezza and he is traded at the CHL level ..that other team usually tries to get back future quantity players rather than one STAR player ... trading 18 year old Spezza for 18 year old Wellwood did not accomplish that..

but the case on the facts ... this point you are stressing actually favours Wellwood at all levels in the future after the trade.

Wellwood and Speeza at 18 (month apart in age) where 1 & 2 in OHL scoring in 2000-01 ... However this was Spezza 3rd season in the OHL and Wellwood 2nd..

http://hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leag...hl19892001.html

and that trend continues ..

Wellwoods 1st year in the AHL last year 55 points leading rookie scorer, was a year behind Spezza who had played the year before .. and at this time Spezza was in the NHL ..

not turn to today ... Wellwood is in his 2nd AHL season and currently on the same path offensively as Speeza yet he has an addional year in experience at a higher level that Wellwood currently does ..

So the point you are making about the trade while it helps make the point in junior favours Wellwood now in fact actually favours Spezza for comparison purposes now based on offensive output.. NO??
"""

""

You are are incorrect on the first part .. Wellwood had 1 goal and 6 assists in his first 8 games and has been on fire on the last 22 a trend similar to Spezza .. If you don't believe me you can loof that up .. Same for both ..

Spezza is bigger .....The main factor in comparison here ..

More similarities in fact Wellwood and Spezza where traded straight up for each other the Belleville Bulls and Windsor Spitfires deal . http://acmi.canoe.ca/Slam020116/hky_spez-cp.html

The posted impressive numbers Wellwood lead the whole OHL as an 18 year old a few ahead of Speeza

They where 1 & 2 in League scoring and assists as 18 year olds while different in height, there skill level = point production ..

2000-01
Points
1 Kyle Wellwood, Belleville........118
2 Jason Spezza, 2 teams............116

Assists
1 Kyle Wellwood, Belleville........ 83
2 Jason Spezza, 2 teams............ 73

http://hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leag...hl19892001.html

and you can see from my other post that their current 29 verses 26 points makes them close again as 21 year olds (with Spezza a year in the NHL experience)

So Point production as 18 year nearly equal ... Point production as 21 year olds nearly equal ...

Both have the reputation that Skating, Defensive Awareness and Physical play are their greates flaws ... only obvious difference on paper is SIZE :

Even Weight 200 lbs vers 190 lbs is marginal as Spezza weight is on a bigger frame ..
""

 

[leafaholix*]

It's nice to see you took that time to look all that up, through 583 posts (with the search tool unavailable).

Now, how many different Leaf fans actually compared Kyle Wellwood in the context that he is as good as Jason Spezza, or will be as good as Jason Spezza?

The same Leaf fan that made the relation between Jason Spezza and Kyle Wellwood has stated in the past that he would compare Kyle Wellwood to Yanic Perreault.

So, he's not saying Wellwood is as good as Spezza, just pointing out they have similar flaws and successes outside of the NHL. You'd have to ask Messenger what his stance is on this topic (again), because I'm not going through 583 posts to make up what will turn out to be a brutal conversation with you, the same guy that said 6 months in age is a big deal for a prospect, even though two prospects were born prior to the NHL draft cutoff date of September 15th, and in the same year.

Btw, I posted 13 times in a thread that consisted of 583 posts... don't expect me to remember that discussion from November. Which, ironically still has yet to prove your point that Leaf fans compare Wellwood's talent level to Spezza's, which is obviously superior.

Another note, to respond to your post in that thread...

"Even if his skating deficiency, softness and lack of size goes uncontested as he makes his way into the NHL, what makes you guys think this is the real Kyle Wellwood? His rookie season last year was great but this year's production seems a bit unreal... it has only been 16 games and 1/4 of his production came from a single 5 point game. Let's wait until he has played as least half this AHL season before we make a definite judgement on the extent of his game."

Kyle Wellwood has now played 49 games (53 points), posted the same #'s as last season in the AHL (55 points in 76 games)... and has improved his defensive play significantly. So, you were and are wrong about Kyle Wellwood in your attempt of saying that the 2003/04 season may have been a fluke.

---------

You seem to be a very hateful and angry child, maybe you should loosen up. Don't point the finger and call me a liar when you're a terrific one yourself, it's just that I don't have the energy to look it up and throw it in your face. This isn't a competition, you're not going to win by hating on everything blue and white.