Rank These Players' Primes (#2)

blundluntman · Jun 22, 2020

Rank these players based on their value on the ice during their primes.

Notes: bolded stats signify they lead the league in that category
-Since some have brought it up, If you would like to consider seasons outside of the 6 years listed for the players below, that is fine. Please be sure to consider seasons missing for all players, however.

Current Results

#1 Jaromir Jagr

1994–95 Pittsburgh Penguins NHL 48 32 38 70 37 12 10 5 15 6
1995–96 Pittsburgh Penguins NHL 82 62 87 149 96 18 11 12 23 18
1996–97 Pittsburgh Penguins NHL 63 47 48 95 40 5 4 4 8 4
1997–98 Pittsburgh Penguins NHL 77 35 67 102 64 6 4 5 9 2
1998–99 Pittsburgh Penguins NHL 81 44 83 127 66 9 5 7 12 16
1999–2000 Pittsburgh Penguins NHL 63 42 54 96 50 11 8 8 16 6
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Remaining Candidates

Guy Lafleur

1974–75	Montreal Canadiens	NHL	70	53	66	119	37	11	12	7	19	15
1975–76*	Montreal Canadiens	NHL	80	56	69	125	36	13	7	10	17	2
1976–77*	Montreal Canadiens	NHL	80	56	80	136	20	14	9	17	26	6
1977–78*	Montreal Canadiens	NHL	78	60	72	132	26	15	10	11	21	16
1978–79*	Montreal Canadiens	NHL	80	52	77	129	28	16	10	13	23	0
1979–80	Montreal Canadiens	NHL	74	50	75	125	12	3	3	1	4	0

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Joe Sakic

1995–96	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	82	51	69	120	44	22	18	16	34	14
1996–97	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	65	22	52	74	34	17	8	17	25	14
1997–98	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	64	27	36	63	50	6	2	3	5	6
1998–99	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	73	41	55	96	29	19	6	13	19	8
1999–00	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	60	28	53	81	28	17	2	7	9	8
2000–01	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	82	54	64	118	30	21	13	13	26	6

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Steve Yzerman

1987–88	Detroit Red Wings	NHL	64	50	52	102	44	3	1	3	4	6
1988–89	Detroit Red Wings	NHL	80	65	90	155	61	6	5	5	10	2
1989–90	Detroit Red Wings	NHL	79	62	65	127	79	—	—	—	—	—
1990–91	Detroit Red Wings	NHL	80	51	57	108	34	7	3	3	6	4
1991–92	Detroit Red Wings	NHL	79	45	58	103	64	11	3	5	8	12
1992–93	Detroit Red Wings	NHL	84	58	79	137	44	7	4	3	7	4

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Alex Ovechkin

2005–06	Washington Capitals	NHL	81	52	54	106	52	—	—	—	—	—
2006–07	Washington Capitals	NHL	82	46	46	92	52	—	—	—	—	—
2007–08	Washington Capitals	NHL	82	65	47	112	40	7	4	5	9	0
2008–09	Washington Capitals	NHL	79	56	54	110	72	14	11	10	21	8
2009–10	Washington Capitals	NHL	72	50	59	109	89	7	5	5	10	0
2010–11	Washington Capitals	NHL	79	32	53	85	41	9	5	5	10	10

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Sidney Crosby

2006–07	Pittsburgh Penguins	NHL	79	36	84	120	60	5	3	2	5	4
2007–08	Pittsburgh Penguins	NHL	53	24	48	72	39	20	6	21	27	12
2008–09	Pittsburgh Penguins	NHL	77	33	70	103	76	24	15	16	31	14
2009–10	Pittsburgh Penguins	NHL	81	51	58	109	69	13	6	13	19	6
2010–11	Pittsburgh Penguins	NHL	41	32	34	66	31	—	—	—	—	—
2011–12	Pittsburgh Penguins	NHL	22	8	29	37	14	6	3	5	8	9

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Eric Lindros

1993–94	Philadelphia Flyers	NHL	65	44	53	97	103	—	—	—	—	—
1994–95	Philadelphia Flyers	NHL	46	29	41	70	60	12	4	11	15	18
1995–96	Philadelphia Flyers	NHL	73	47	68	115	163	12	6	6	12	43
1996–97	Philadelphia Flyers	NHL	52	32	47	79	136	19	12	14	26	40
1997–98	Philadelphia Flyers	NHL	63	30	41	71	134	5	1	2	3	17
1998–99	Philadelphia Flyers	NHL	71	40	53	93

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Peter Forsberg

1995–96	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	82	30	86	116	47	22	10	11	21	18
1996–97	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	65	28	58	86	73	14	5	12	17	10
1997–98	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	72	25	66	91	94	7	6	5	11	12
1998–99	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	78	30	67	97	108	19	8	16	24	31
1999–00	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	49	14	37	51	52	16	7	8	15	12
2000–01	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	73	27	62	89	54	11	4	10	14	6

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Marcel Dionne

1976–77	Los Angeles Kings	NHL	80	53	69	122	12	9	5	9	14	2
1977–78	Los Angeles Kings	NHL	70	36	43	79	37	2	0	0	0	0
1978–79	Los Angeles Kings	NHL	80	59	71	130	30	2	0	1	1	0
1979–80	Los Angeles Kings	NHL	80	53	84	137	32	4	0	3	3	4
1980–81	Los Angeles Kings	NHL	80	58	77	135	70	4	1	3	4	7
1981–82	Los Angeles Kings	NHL	78	50	67	117	50	10	7	4	11	0

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Mike Bossy

1978–79	New York Islanders	NHL	80	69	57	126	25	10	6	2	8	2
1979–80	New York Islanders	NHL	75	51	41	92	12	16	10	13	23	8
1980–81	New York Islanders	NHL	79	68	51	119	32	18	17	18	35	4
1981–82	New York Islanders	NHL	80	64	83	147	22	19	17	10	27	0
1982–83	New York Islanders	NHL	79	60	58	118	20	19	17	9	26	10
1983–84	New York Islanders	NHL	67	51	67	118	8	21	8	10	18	4

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

KoozNetsOff 92 · Jun 22, 2020

OV or Lafleur. Both clearly better than Crosby.

KirkAlbuquerque · Jun 22, 2020

Ovechkin

bobholly39 · Jun 22, 2020

vicprestige said:
Rank these players based on their value on the ice during their primes (6 year period).

Notes: bolded stats signify they lead the league in that category

Current Results

#1 Jaromir Jagr

1994–95 Pittsburgh Penguins NHL 48 32 38 70 37 12 10 5 15 6
1995–96 Pittsburgh Penguins NHL 82 62 87 149 96 18 11 12 23 18
1996–97 Pittsburgh Penguins NHL 63 47 48 95 40 5 4 4 8 4
1997–98 Pittsburgh Penguins NHL 77 35 67 102 64 6 4 5 9 2
1998–99 Pittsburgh Penguins NHL 81 44 83 127 66 9 5 7 12 16
1999–2000 Pittsburgh Penguins NHL 63 42 54 96 50 11 8 8 16 6
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Remaining Candidates

Guy Lafleur

1974–75 Montreal Canadiens NHL 70 53 66 119 37 11 12 7 19 15
1975–76* Montreal Canadiens NHL 80 56 69 125 36 13 7 10 17 2
1976–77* Montreal Canadiens NHL 80 56 80 136 20 14 9 17 26 6
1977–78* Montreal Canadiens NHL 78 60 72 132 26 15 10 11 21 16
1978–79* Montreal Canadiens NHL 80 52 77 129 28 16 10 13 23 0
1979–80 Montreal Canadiens NHL 74 50 75 125 12 3 3 1 4 0
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Joe Sakic

1995–96 Colorado Avalanche NHL 82 51 69 120 44 22 18 16 34 14
1996–97 Colorado Avalanche NHL 65 22 52 74 34 17 8 17 25 14
1997–98 Colorado Avalanche NHL 64 27 36 63 50 6 2 3 5 6
1998–99 Colorado Avalanche NHL 73 41 55 96 29 19 6 13 19 8
1999–00 Colorado Avalanche NHL 60 28 53 81 28 17 2 7 9 8
2000–01 Colorado Avalanche NHL 82 54 64 118 30 21 13 13 26 6
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Steve Yzerman

1987–88 Detroit Red Wings NHL 64 50 52 102 44 3 1 3 4 6
1988–89 Detroit Red Wings NHL 80 65 90 155 61 6 5 5 10 2
1989–90 Detroit Red Wings NHL 79 62 65 127 79 — — — — —
1990–91 Detroit Red Wings NHL 80 51 57 108 34 7 3 3 6 4
1991–92 Detroit Red Wings NHL 79 45 58 103 64 11 3 5 8 12
1992–93 Detroit Red Wings NHL 84 58 79 137 44 7 4 3 7 4
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Alex Ovechkin

2005–06 Washington Capitals NHL 81 52 54 106 52 — — — — —
2006–07 Washington Capitals NHL 82 46 46 92 52 — — — — —
2007–08 Washington Capitals NHL 82 65 47 112 40 7 4 5 9 0
2008–09 Washington Capitals NHL 79 56 54 110 72 14 11 10 21 8
2009–10 Washington Capitals NHL 72 50 59 109 89 7 5 5 10 0
2010–11 Washington Capitals NHL 79 32 53 85 41 9 5 5 10 10
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Sidney Crosby

2006–07 Pittsburgh Penguins NHL 79 36 84 120 60 5 3 2 5 4
2007–08 Pittsburgh Penguins NHL 53 24 48 72 39 20 6 21 27 12
2008–09 Pittsburgh Penguins NHL 77 33 70 103 76 24 15 16 31 14
2009–10 Pittsburgh Penguins NHL 81 51 58 109 69 13 6 13 19 6
2010–11 Pittsburgh Penguins NHL 41 32 34 66 31 — — — — —
2011–12 Pittsburgh Penguins NHL 22 8 29 37 14 6 3 5 8 9
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Eric Lindros

1993–94 Philadelphia Flyers NHL 65 44 53 97 103 — — — — —
1994–95 Philadelphia Flyers NHL 46 29 41 70 60 12 4 11 15 18
1995–96 Philadelphia Flyers NHL 73 47 68 115 163 12 6 6 12 43
1996–97 Philadelphia Flyers NHL 52 32 47 79 136 19 12 14 26 40
1997–98 Philadelphia Flyers NHL 63 30 41 71 134 5 1 2 3 17
1998–99 Philadelphia Flyers NHL 71 40 53 93
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Peter Forsberg

1995–96 Colorado Avalanche NHL 82 30 86 116 47 22 10 11 21 18
1996–97 Colorado Avalanche NHL 65 28 58 86 73 14 5 12 17 10
1997–98 Colorado Avalanche NHL 72 25 66 91 94 7 6 5 11 12
1998–99 Colorado Avalanche NHL 78 30 67 97 108 19 8 16 24 31
1999–00 Colorado Avalanche NHL 49 14 37 51 52 16 7 8 15 12
2000–01 Colorado Avalanche NHL 73 27 62 89 54 11 4 10 14 6
2002–03 Colorado Avalanche NHL 75 29 77 106 70 7 2 6 8 6
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
*I personally don't know if the 03 season should count for Forsberg since it's breaking the rules but: 1: I think it adds context, 2: I'm OCD so I'd like there to be 2 100 pt seasons, 3: He's a weak link without it imo and I want 10 contestants so pls don't bring it up

Marcel Dionne

1976–77 Los Angeles Kings NHL 80 53 69 122 12 9 5 9 14 2
1977–78 Los Angeles Kings NHL 70 36 43 79 37 2 0 0 0 0
1978–79 Los Angeles Kings NHL 80 59 71 130 30 2 0 1 1 0
1979–80 Los Angeles Kings NHL 80 53 84 137 32 4 0 3 3 4
1980–81 Los Angeles Kings NHL 80 58 77 135 70 4 1 3 4 7
1981–82 Los Angeles Kings NHL 78 50 67 117 50 10 7 4 11 0
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Mike Bossy

1978–79 New York Islanders NHL 80 69 57 126 25 10 6 2 8 2
1979–80 New York Islanders NHL 75 51 41 92 12 16 10 13 23 8
1980–81 New York Islanders NHL 79 68 51 119 32 18 17 18 35 4
1981–82 New York Islanders NHL 80 64 83 147 22 19 17 10 27 0
1982–83 New York Islanders NHL 79 60 58 118 20 19 17 9 26 10
1983–84 New York Islanders NHL 67 51 67 118 8 21 8 10 18 4
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Last edited: Thursday at 11:51 AM

Really feel as though your poll would be so much better if you clarified in the question if it's best prime, or best 6 years.

Poll question says best prime. Sidney Crosby had the best prime of any player listed here, very, very easily so.

But if it's best 6 years, that's different.
Is it also specifically 6 consecutive years alone? And is it specifically the 6 years you picked, or can we prefer a different set of 6 years?

blundluntman · Jun 22, 2020

bobholly39 said:
Really feel as though your poll would be so much better if you clarified in the question if it's best prime, or best 6 years.

Poll question says best prime. Sidney Crosby had the best prime of any player listed here, very, very easily so.

But if it's best 6 years, that's different.
Is it also specifically 6 consecutive years alone? And is it specifically the 6 years you picked, or can we prefer a different set of 6 years?

edit:

Prime is just a generic term for a period of time where they were playing at "their best". The actual number or range of seasons isn't as big of a deal as their on ice value during that time. I thought 6 years would be a fair benchmark since none of the players on this list had that many seasons outside this range that exceeded the norm (such as a 2013-14 Crosby, Red Wings Marcel Dionne, or early 90s Sakic).

bobholly39 · Jun 22, 2020

vicprestige said:
Prime is just a generic term for a period of time where they were playing at "their best". The actual number or range of seasons isn't as big of a deal but I wanted fairly equal representation so I used those for reference. Naturally you could argue that some players on this list had a longer prime or it started/ended differently.

Yes exactly. Sidney Crosby had a longer prime, and by virtue of that gets my vote for #1. He has an even better prime than Jagr imo.

If you were asking about just best 6 years though - I would vote Lafleur. So - voting Crosby

blundluntman · Jun 22, 2020

bobholly39 said:
Yes exactly. Sidney Crosby had a longer prime, and by virtue of that gets my vote for #1. He has an even better prime than Jagr imo.

If you were asking about just best 6 years though - I would vote Lafleur. So - voting Crosby

What makes Crosby's prime longer than Jagr or Sakic? They were all pretty consistent offensively into their 30s but I don't think anybody takes a 30 year old Crosby over a 23 year old Crosby. There was a considerable dropoff in Crosby's dominance after 2014 and that's something that happens to almost every player near the end of their prime.

Besides that, this is about their value at their best, for all intents and purposes. Maybe the poll would be better if it was asking which player you would sign for a 6 year contract if you could pick them during their prime.

bobholly39 · Jun 22, 2020

vicprestige said:
What makes Crosby's prime longer than Jagr or Sakic? They were all pretty consistent offensively into their 30s but I don't think anybody takes a 30 year old Crosby over a 23 year old Crosby. There was a considerable dropoff in Crosby's dominance after 2014 and that's something that happens to almost every player near the end of their prime.

Besides that, this is about their value at their best, for all intents and purposes. Maybe the poll would be better if it was asking which player you would sign for a 6 year contract if you could pick them during their prime.

I think you just need to decide what you're asking. The answer changes everytime you change the question.

Best prime
Best consecutive 6 years
Best 6 years overall
Best specific 6 years you picked for each player

All 4 questions here would have different answers/rankings, at least for me.

As to what makes Crosby's prime better - consistency. You say his played dropped off after 2014....but did it? He has 2 conn smythes and 3 2nd place hart finishes. That's certainly prime-worthy to me. He has 13 seasons that make up his prime in my opinion - and i'm only not counting this year because of injuries, if he bounces back next year at a very high level, i think it still counts. His consistency makes him untouchable for prime imo. He doesn't have a single down year in that stretch. The only down year is 2018 when he was still 10th in scoring, and still saved the Penguins season from imploding mid-way when they looked to miss playoffs - not exactly a bad year, just a bit lower for his own very high standards.

blundluntman · Jun 22, 2020

bobholly39 said:
I think you just need to decide what you're asking. The answer changes everytime you change the question.

Best prime
Best consecutive 6 years
Best 6 years overall
Best specific 6 years you picked for each player

All 4 questions here would have different answers/rankings, at least for me.

As to what makes Crosby's prime better - consistency. You say his played dropped off after 2014....but did it? He has 2 conn smythes and 3 2nd place hart finishes. That's certainly prime-worthy to me. He has 13 seasons that make up his prime in my opinion - and i'm only not counting this year because of injuries, if he bounces back next year at a very high level, i think it still counts. His consistency makes him untouchable for prime imo. He doesn't have a single down year in that stretch. The only down year is 2018 when he was still 10th in scoring, and still saved the Penguins season from imploding mid-way when they looked to miss playoffs - not exactly a bad year, just a bit lower for his own very high standards.

Basically the poll is asking to rank the quality of their primes. (the 6 year period just represents a rough idea of their best seasons within a considerable range).

It's a fair argument that Crosby has a better prime bc of his consistency or the amount of years its spans over; But it doesn't necessarily mean that one would take Crosby's 6 best seasons over the next guy's, just that he would have more seasons to choose from. Besides, that same argument would raise Gordie Howe's prime above Gretzky's considering he had a more consistent career as he arguably sustained his prime into his mid 30s; I don't think that most people would accept that. That's why I specified 'on ice value' in the OP.

bobholly39 · Jun 22, 2020

vicprestige said:
Basically the poll is asking to rank the quality of their primes. (the 6 year period just represents a rough idea of their best seasons within a considerable range).

It's a fair argument that Crosby has a better prime bc of his consistency or the amount of years its spans over; But it doesn't necessarily mean that one would take Crosby's 6 best seasons over the next guy's, just that he would have more seasons to choose from. Besides, that same argument would raise Gordie Howe's prime above Gretzky's considering he had a more consistent career as he arguably sustained his prime into his mid 30s; I don't think that most people would accept that. That's why I specified 'on ice value' in the OP.

Your two bolds is exactly what i'm arguing with you about. No - it doesn't mean that. They are two different questions.

Sidney Crosby has the best prime (your poll questions asks that - best prime)
Sidney Crosby does not have the best 6 seasons

How are we supposed to vote - best prime, or best 6 years? You seem to be saying best prime in your earlier response, but now i'm not sure anymore based on the 2nd bolded.

The Howe vs Gretzky comparison is clumsy at best.

1. Gretzky's peak is way beyond Howe's offensively. So his best ~8-9 years are much better, that i don't think Howe overtakes him in longevity
2. You can probably argue that Crosby's best full season isn't the best of the players listed here, nor his 6 best years. But - he's still rather close to their level. Not at all the gap of Gretzky vs Howe, with Gretzky breaking all the records
3. Also - many actually would argue Howe over Gretzky for prime based on longevity.

amnesiac · Jun 22, 2020

Ill say Lafleur over Ovie and Crosby

average 58 G 136 P /82 games from 74-80

2 Harts
3 Lindsays
3 Art Ross
1 Smythe
4 Cups

I dont see anyone with a better resume in his prime

blundluntman · Jun 22, 2020

bobholly39 said:
Your two bolds is exactly what i'm arguing with you about. No - it doesn't mean that. They are two different questions.

Sidney Crosby has the best prime (your poll questions asks that - best prime)
Sidney Crosby does not have the best 6 seasons

How are we supposed to vote - best prime, or best 6 years? You seem to be saying best prime in your earlier response, but now i'm not sure anymore based on the 2nd bolded.

The Howe vs Gretzky comparison is clumsy at best.

1. Gretzky's peak is way beyond Howe's offensively. So his best ~8-9 years are much better, that i don't think Howe overtakes him in longevity
2. You can probably argue that Crosby's best full season isn't the best of the players listed here, nor his 6 best years. But - he's still rather close to their level. Not at all the gap of Gretzky vs Howe, with Gretzky breaking all the records
3. Also - many actually would argue Howe over Gretzky for prime based on longevity.

My point is that there is a difference between the quality of a player's prime (quality usually being shown in their peak level of play) vs the quantity/longevity of a player's prime. Both are valid sides of the argument but I'm asking for the quality in this case. If you want to include more than 6 seasons, that is fine, I'd just ask that you consider the seasons I failed to include for others as well (such as Sakic, Yzerman, Dionne, Forsberg & Ovechkin).

1. I certainly agree that Gretzky was far better offensively, but Howe was a physical specimen with a great 200 foot game and played in an era where scoring was lower. Like you said, some would argue Howe over Gretzky, that's why he's part of the Big 4. That's not to say I would argue for Howe, but if it is the quality of Gretzky's peak that allows him to stand out as the consensus #1, then I think that justifies using it as a metric for this poll. It seems to be his bang for his buck that makes him the greatest, so that's why I emphasize using on ice value rather than the amount of seasons.

2. I agree, I think that's fair enough for this poll considering Crosby is the best player in this poll more than likely. What makes Crosby great isn't his peak level of play or his prime, it's his consistency. But that doesn't mean that other players didn't reach heights greater than he did.

TheGuiminator · Jun 22, 2020

Best 6 years prime ? Lafleur

Best lengthy prime or overall prime ? Crosby

bambamcam4ever · Jun 22, 2020

Crosby led the league in ppg for 5 straight years and 6 years total. Only 2 players have done that more often.

Rank These Players' Primes (#2)

Which of these players has the 2nd best prime?

Guy Lafleur

Joe Sakic

Steve Yzerman

Alex Ovechkin

Sidney Crosby

Eric Lindros

Peter Forsberg

Marcel Dionne

Mike Bossy

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I’ll be damned King, I’ll be damned

107 and counting

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