Rank These '99 Players

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Coffey77

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nomorekids said:
So is Steve Maltais.

So I guess there's hope for him, too?

Simon Gamache only trails Jason Spezza for the scoring lead by 4 points...yet everyoen constantly predicts he'll never play in the NHL, either. Unfortunately, the AHL isn't always the best measuring stick.

Right on all counts. Beech is still young enough to rebound (born in 1981 I think) but I don't know if he'll become a regular NHLer.

Jiri Hudler has averaged about a point a game in the AHL but I'm still not totally sold on him yet. Same with Gamanche. Scoring in the AHL is a good thing of course but you can't totally base whether that player can make the jump to the NHL.
 

SmokeyClause

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Pepper said:
Despite Malone showing piss-poor attitude when playing in Finland, he plays a much more complete game than Erat so while he *might* have less potential offensively, he's better player as a whole.

I disagree, I think Erat has the edge in offensive skills and Malone has an edge in physical game. But let us not forget that Erat was 22 last season Malone turned 24 two months in. If you factor in that difference, Malone isn't better in my opinion. And Erat did more offensively with much less ice time.

And we talk about this "better player as a whole" as if Erat is some sort of Kovalchuk in his own zone. He's actually quite adept. I know he wasn't in his rookie season at the age of 20, but he played well enough on defense to maintain a spot on the 2nd/3rd line for virtually the entire season. It's incredibly rare for someone to play that role for coach Trotz without being very solid in his own end.
 

The Maltais Falcon

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Stefan has turned into a very nice two-way forward that can be a second-line center. Not what you hope for out of a first-overall pick, but far from a bust. In hindsight, he was the right pick. The Sedins have been arguably better, but they got to come in and play on a great team right off the bat. Stefan was surrounded by bad-to-mediocre players his first few years in Atlanta. Even now he never plays with Heatley and gets on a line with Kovalchuk about half the time.

I'm one of those doubters on Simon Gamache. He's a little guy that plays a big man's game. He can't motor like Steve Sullivan or Martin St. Louis and that's critical if a little guy is going to make it in the show. He has good hands and hockey sense but he scores most of his points in the slot. I didn't see any of his Nashville games but in Atlanta he just got abused there. I still pull for him, though. He's a fearless hockey player and a nice kid.
 

nomorekids

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The Maltais Falcon said:
Stefan has turned into a very nice two-way forward that can be a second-line center. Not what you hope for out of a first-overall pick, but far from a bust. In hindsight, he was the right pick. The Sedins have been arguably better, but they got to come in and play on a great team right off the bat. Stefan was surrounded by bad-to-mediocre players his first few years in Atlanta. Even now he never plays with Heatley and gets on a line with Kovalchuk about half the time.

I'm one of those doubters on Simon Gamache. He's a little guy that plays a big man's game. He can't motor like Steve Sullivan or Martin St. Louis and that's critical if a little guy is going to make it in the show. He has good hands and hockey sense but he scores most of his points in the slot. I didn't see any of his Nashville games but in Atlanta he just got abused there. I still pull for him, though. He's a fearless hockey player and a nice kid.

Everyone was very impressed with him in Nashville, but his chances are contingent on whether or not he can learn to play center, really. His speed has improved, because he's not very slow, from what we saw.
 

Evilo

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SmokeyClause said:
I disagree, I think Erat has the edge in offensive skills and Malone has an edge in physical game. But let us not forget that Erat was 22 last season Malone turned 24 two months in. If you factor in that difference, Malone isn't better in my opinion. And Erat did more offensively with much less ice time.

And we talk about this "better player as a whole" as if Erat is some sort of Kovalchuk in his own zone. He's actually quite adept. I know he wasn't in his rookie season at the age of 20, but he played well enough on defense to maintain a spot on the 2nd/3rd line for virtually the entire season. It's incredibly rare for someone to play that role for coach Trotz without being very solid in his own end.
I'll disagree (of course I do).
Malone is a more complete player, has some dazzling moves, and is (as I previously said) a very clutch player.
So he had more icetime, but that included a lot of penalty killing, and you forgot to add that he didn't have decent teammates for most of the season.
He quickly was the only offensive player on his team, thus he had defenses all over him in the gameplan.
I don't think any team prepared to face Erat last year.
 

nomorekids

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Evilo said:
I'll disagree (of course I do).
Malone is a more complete player, has some dazzling moves, and is (as I previously said) a very clutch player.
So he had more icetime, but that included a lot of penalty killing, and you forgot to add that he didn't have decent teammates for most of the season.
He quickly was the only offensive player on his team, thus he had defenses all over him in the gameplan.
I don't think any team prepared to face Erat last year.


well, when playing the Pens...I mean...who were you going to zero in on? Ramzi Abid?

sorry, sorry, i had to :D
 

Evilo

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Yes you had to zero in on Ramzi Abid... on the injured list :D
But that's the whole point anyway. Malone was the lone offensive threat for most of the season.
 

SmokeyClause

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Evilo said:
I'll disagree (of course I do).
Malone is a more complete player, has some dazzling moves, and is (as I previously said) a very clutch player.
So he had more icetime, but that included a lot of penalty killing, and you forgot to add that he didn't have decent teammates for most of the season.
He quickly was the only offensive player on his team, thus he had defenses all over him in the gameplan.
I don't think any team prepared to face Erat last year.

Did Erat have decent linemates? His centers for almost the entire year were Johnson or Arkhipov. Not exactly special, by any stretch. I'd venture to say that Malone's linemates were just as good and he got more time with them.

And while he was the target, don't forget that most teams took the night off against the Pens.

And how is he a much more complete player? Is he some sort of god in the defensive zone? He's probably better than Erat, but I'd venture to say the difference isn't as you would like us to believe.

I know you are a penguins homer and arguing with you on this is pointless (as Erat is with me) as Malone is one of the few bright spots on the team, but Erat is on par with him in my opinion.

It comes down to this...Erat put up more points in roughly 20 less games (using a very generous 20 mpg mark) and was involved in 43 less powerplays (using a very generous 1 minuter per pp mark). I love size and the Preds could use a player like Malone. But at what point do you step back, look at the numbers, the levels they are in their development and tell me that Malone is clearly better? I've seen the kid play, he's just not better than Erat.
 

Evilo

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You again skipped his penalty killing ability. Not only does it prove he's more complete, but it also proves that his "superior" icetime isn't necessarily some quality icetime (for scoring I mean).
Yes Malone is older, but it was also his rookie season. You probably could expect more points for him in the future.
 

nomorekids

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Evilo said:
You again skipped his penalty killing ability. Not only does it prove he's more complete, but it also proves that his "superior" icetime isn't necessarily some quality icetime (for scoring I mean).
Yes Malone is older, but it was also his rookie season. You probably could expect more points for him in the future.


If Erat needed to kill penalties, he probably could. We, however, have the luxury of having four guys ahead of him that practically specialize in killing penalties.
 

Evilo

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yep you have a better team and Erat's numbers reflect that. Malone has to do it all by himself, which is why using the icetime is not a good measuring stick when you want to prove Erat is better. In fact it could be an argument to prove Malone is better since he kills penalties AND manages to be an offensive factor. As a rookie.
 

Pepper

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SmokeyClause said:
I disagree, I think Erat has the edge in offensive skills and Malone has an edge in physical game. But let us not forget that Erat was 22 last season Malone turned 24 two months in. If you factor in that difference, Malone isn't better in my opinion. And Erat did more offensively with much less ice time.

And we talk about this "better player as a whole" as if Erat is some sort of Kovalchuk in his own zone. He's actually quite adept. I know he wasn't in his rookie season at the age of 20, but he played well enough on defense to maintain a spot on the 2nd/3rd line for virtually the entire season. It's incredibly rare for someone to play that role for coach Trotz without being very solid in his own end.

Erat has played 183 NHL games, Malone 81. If you want to factor in that Malone is less than 2 years older, you also have to factor in the number of NHL/AHL games. Malone in total has 84 professional games under his belt while Erat has 228, almost 3 times as much. That makes Malone's performance look even better.

Malone = bigger, more physical, better defensively and most likely a better goalscorer. Erat probably has advantage in playmaking & total offensive output (albeit slight) but that's about it.

So I'd take Malone easily over Erat.
 

Taze

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Evilo said:
Why would he try hard and risk an injury in Finland?
His goal is NHL hockey. He might as well remain competitive by dominating in Italy for all I care.

Why come to play in PROFESSIONAL league in first place, if you don't want to do ANY work? Malone has no attitude, he is no professional.

I won't change that opinion even if he dominates the whole NHL. True professionals under the contract come and play their best every night, Malone didn't even try. That makes him... well POS?

And he doesn't seem to dominate even in Italy (no offense). Maybe he's just lost his game? Maybe last season was a fluke? But I'm sure all his "playing" in Europe helps his career in NHL...
 
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Rowsdower

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Taze said:
Why come to play in PROFESSIONAL league in first place, if you don't want to do ANY work? Malone has no attitude, he is no professional.

I won't change that opinion even if he dominates the whole NHL. True professionals under the contract come and play their best every night, Malone didn't even try. That makes him... well POS?

And he doesn't seem to dominate even in Italy (no offense). Maybe he's just lost his game? Maybe last season was a fluke? But I'm sure all his "playing" in Europe helps his career in NHL...

I'm a tad skeptical that Malone went from a promising young player to total obscurity over a few ill spent months in Europe. I'm hesitant to write off his season as a fluke simply due to the lack of talent on Pitts last season. He was the best foward on the team last season IMO. I think you put way too much into this...calling him a piece of **** is a bit extreme as well.

That said, he really needs to come back to North America. The whole Europe thing isn't working out for him at all. Hopefully, he can get his head on straight.
 

HuskyFlames

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pavel datsyuk said:
he does every year for about two weeks. Then, he slows down. Plus, how many chances has this guy been given to make the pens roster when they needed a top 2 line player?

That has nothing to do with anything. Sometimes guys just take longer to mature. Look at St. Louis. There are many guys that are impact players until they hit the 27 years or so old era.
 

Chris

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Ryan Malone
Konstantin Koltsov
Oleg Saprykin
Martin Erat
Taylor Pyatt
Juraj Kolnik
Jamie Lundmark
Branko Radivojevic
Mattias Weinhandl
Radim Vrbata
Tim Connolly
Pavel Brendl
Tom Kostopoulos
 

Jacob

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Feb 27, 2002
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Finnish people are pretty grouchy over Malone's 9 game trial.
 

x-bob

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Malone
Weinhandl
Erat
Koltsov
Vrbata
Saprykin
Pyatt
Lundmark
Radivojevic
Kostopoulos
Brendl
Connolly
Kolnik
 

Vatican Roulette

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Patrick - Flames Fan said:
That has nothing to do with anything. Sometimes guys just take longer to mature. Look at St. Louis. There are many guys that are impact players until they hit the 27 years or so old era.

i looked at all the guys on St. Louis. None of them were given chances before St. Louis came calling. Beech has been given plenty of chances on the worst team in the league and still can't crack the line-up.

see my point?
 
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