Rank the following Dmen:

Discussion in 'The History of Hockey' started by RabbinsDuck, Jun 15, 2011.

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  1. RabbinsDuck

    RabbinsDuck Registered User

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    How do you rank:

    Stevens
    MacInnis
    Pronger
    Leetch
    Niedermayer
    Chara

    I think that's the order I would have them right now.
     
  2. JaysCyYoung

    JaysCyYoung Registered User

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    Thats the order that I would have them ranked as well. It's bizarre too because Stevens was the only one on that list that didn't win a Norris Trophy, but his status as the dominant defenceman (and inspirational leader) on three Stanley Cup champions and ability to alter his game (going from one of the league's premier offensive defencemen to the singularly most dominant shut down defenceman in the game post-1994) is too difficult to overlook. Even if he wasn't as offensively-gifted as some of the other names on the list Stevens was nevertheless the best all-around.

    Bourque was better than all of them, however.
     
  3. tony d

    tony d Registered User Sponsor

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    Stevens
    MacInnis
    Leetch
    Pronger
    Niedermayer
    Chara
     
  4. seventieslord

    seventieslord Student Of The Game

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    I think that is my order too (maybe MacInnis over Stevens?) but I'm starting to wonder how long I can keep Chara under Niedermayer and Chara.
     
  5. Hawkey Town 18

    Hawkey Town 18 Registered User

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    3 close but distinct tiers for me...

    MacInnis/Stevens
    Leetch/Pronger
    Niedermayer/Chara

    Not sure who I'd pick first out of each pairing. My gut says MacInnis, Pronger, Niedermayer, but it deserves a closer look.
     
  6. begbeee

    begbeee Registered User

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    Only Chara has no Conn Smythe (Pronger has Hart and Conn Smythe Trophy worthy run) - that says a lot about man, who is the weakest member of this group.
     
  7. TheDevilMadeMe

    TheDevilMadeMe Registered User

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    good question. I more or less agree with your order though the results of tomorrow's game definitely influence Chara's
    position. I couldn't rank him over Pronger or Leetch, but Chara has to be nipping at Niedermayer's heals by now
     
  8. RabbinsDuck

    RabbinsDuck Registered User

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    By All Star Team Selections:

    1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2 = MacInnis
    1, 1, 2, 2, 2 = Stevens
    1, 1, 2, 2, 2 = Leetch
    1, 1, 1, 2 = Niedermayer
    1, 1, 2, 2 = Chara
    1, 2, 2, 2 = Pronger

    Chara is guaranteed to have one more after this year, but is the only one not to have at least one incredible playoff run. Really impressive that MacInnis has that amount stretched over 15+ years.
     
  9. Hockey Outsider

    Hockey Outsider Registered User

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    Total Norris trophy votes


    - This is not my personal ranking, this is simply a reflection of how many Norris trophy votes each defenseman received over the course of their careers.

    - The Norris trophy is only based on regular season performance. In real life, Stevens is much farther ahead of Chara than it would appear per the above list.

    - The list doesn't take quality of competition into account. In Stevens' best years, he was competing for Norris votes against prime Bourque, Chelios, Leetch, MacInnis, etc. Chara's competition for the Norris in recent years has been very weak by historical standards. If Chara wins the Norris this year, he might actually jump to 2nd on this list.
     
  10. I'm stuck on Niedermayer, but you can't keep Chara under Chara for too long.
     
  11. seventieslord

    seventieslord Student Of The Game

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    LOL :facepalm:

    I meant Leetch.
     
  12. Hardyvan123

    Hardyvan123 [email protected]

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    I'm leanign towards this ranking but it's hard with Chara and Pronger still playing and adding to his career.

    Also the gap between the top guy MacInnis and the bottom, Chara, for now or Nieds isn't as large as it seems IMO.

    Nieds really gets slammed on these boards sometimes, unfairly IMO.
     
  13. tarheelhockey

    tarheelhockey Highest Boss

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    Macinnis

    Pronger
    Stevens
    Leetch


    Niedermayer
    Chara
     
  14. Big Phil

    Big Phil Registered User

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    I agree for the most part. However, if I was picking it I'd put MacInnis 1st. Just barely, because as we all know Stevens did things that didn't show up on the scoresheet and the intimidation he provided makes up for the lost offense later in his career. But MacInnis had a well rounded game and his own level of intimidation with his shot. I put Big Al #1. Other than perhaps Leetch in 1994, he had the best playoff run out of all of them.

    Leetch and Nieds are retired so obviously they can't go up but I think MacInnis and Stevens are a safe #1-2 on that list for a while. Pronger might surpass them, but he'll need another all-star season to do so.

    Eventually Chara has got to pass Niedermayer though. Even in Nieds' prime (2003-2007) Chara was right there with him for the most part. Give it time. But will he catch Leetch? I think he can, but that'll take longer
     
  15. Fredrik_71

    Fredrik_71 Registered User

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    My ranking based on what player I would choose for my team.

    Pronger
    Leetch
    Chara
    MacInnis
    Stevens
    Niedermayer

    /Cheers
     
  16. revolverjgw

    revolverjgw Registered User

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    That's how I have it too
     
  17. vadim sharifijanov

    vadim sharifijanov ugh

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    i think niedermayer has become so overrated in the popular imagination that he tends to get a bit underrated here. regular season prime vs. regular season prime, niedermayer and chara are pretty even in terms of norrises and all-star selections, and their primes overlapped so quality of competition isn't really a factor.

    but in terms of playoffs, niedermayer's best run ('03) is easily ahead of chara this year. and niedermayer has three other cups, including a(n admittedly weak) conn smythe. to me, it would take either a three more dominant regular seasons or a really outstanding playoff run, or some combination of regular season and playoff success, for me to even consider chara even.

    i think there's a very reasonable argument for niedermayer being ahead of leetch, actually.

    for me, the tiers are:

    stevens, macinnis
    pronger
    leetch niedermayer
    chara

    stevens vs. macinnis is very difficult. before '94, it was unquestionably macinnis. by '98, it had turned decisively to stevens, though this was somewhat due to macinnis was so good so early and all those years of "just" being a top ten defenseman made a lot of people forget about him. then both of them added so much to their resumes after '98, which would have seemed unfathomable at the time. now that all is said and done... i lean slightly toward macinnis, but it's hard to discount his average (by the standards of the guys on this list) playoff record in calgary post-'89. those were very strong teams that kept getting bounced in the first round and he should have been their best player, which he rarely was.
     
  18. Reds4Life

    Reds4Life Registered User

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    Stevens tied with Pronger
    MacInnis

    Leetch

    Niedermayer




    Chara


    (gaps intentional)
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2011
  19. RabbinsDuck

    RabbinsDuck Registered User

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    Nice thoughts - I can see MacInnis over Stevens though I still edge towards Stevens - largely for those later years where Stevens was a constant immense presence in the playoffs and MacInnis was more of an after thought.

    Pronger is a tough one - he reminds me of Potvin but on a lower tier. Underwhelming per season results but always a huge factor when he is on the ice. Strictly peak, at their best, I probably take Pronger out of all that group, but overall I think he is well behind Stevens and MacInnis... Leetch is debatable.
     
  20. Fire Sweeney

    Fire Sweeney Registered User

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    Bergen
    Stevens
    Leetch
    Chara
    Macinnis
    Niedermayer
    Pronger
     
  21. VanIslander

    VanIslander Don't waste my time

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    MacInnis
    Pronger
    Stevens

    Leetch

    Niedermayer



    Chara
     
  22. jkrx

    jkrx Registered User

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    MacInnis
    Stevens

    Pronger

    Chara
    Leetch
    Niedermeyer
     
  23. tarheelhockey

    tarheelhockey Highest Boss

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    You'd put Chara over Macinnis? Why?
     
  24. Breakfast of Champs

    Breakfast of Champs Registered User

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    The fact that his name is tyler seguin and his pic is chara with the cup might be an indication
     
  25. Epsilon

    Epsilon #basta

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    I would tend to agree with this post. Similar regular season results for Niedermayer and Chara, 4 Stanley Cups for Niedermayer to 1 for Chara, and a significantly better top-end playoff for Niedermayer (2003), and I don't see how people can be putting Chara ahead of him other than lack of perspective because the Cup win is so fresh. Also consider that Niedermayer twice finished 2nd to Lidstrom in Norris trophy voting, including against arguably Lidstrom's best season (2005-06). On the other hand, Chara finished behind Dion Phaneuf in 2007-08 and was beat by Niedermayer multiple times where both finished highly in the voting, including the year Niedermayer won the Norris.

    I like your tiers, and would probably go with an absolute ordering of:

    1. MacInnis
    2. Stevens
    3. Pronger
    4. Leetch
    5. Niedermayer
    6. Chara
     

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