Rank Niklas Kronwall in the Wings' All Time Defensemen

[TheClap]

Larry Murphy gets no love. Dude was washed up when he joined the Wings sure, but he was the perfect partner for the start of Lidstrom's career. Smart, efficient, puck-possession hockey (also slooooooow).

Nothing highlights the Hall of Famer's greatness better than the 1997 finals. The Legion of Doom was supposed to roll over the Wings, and against what appeared to be common sense, Scotty Bowman threw Nick Lidstrom and Larry Murphy out there against them instead of a physical guy like Konstantinov. And what happened? Murphy and Lidstrom shut them down.

 

[TimIsRetired]

Fedorov performed great at the whims of Rainman. Tough to do.

 

[MBH]

Larry Murphy gets no love. Dude was washed up when he joined the Wings sure, but he was the perfect partner for the start of Lidstrom's career. Smart, efficient, puck-possession hockey (also slooooooow).

Nothing highlights the Hall of Famer's greatness better than the 1997 finals. The Legion of Doom was supposed to roll over the Wings, and against what appeared to be common sense, Scotty Bowman threw Nick Lidstrom and Larry Murphy out there against them instead of a physical guy like Konstantinov. And what happened? Murphy and Lidstrom shut them down.

He played 312 games in Detroit and had 171 points. And he's mentioned in the OP.
I don't think he gets no love, for an old guy, who came in here and won a bit at the end of a long career.

 

[kliq]

I have such a hard time comparing players from the original 6 era to the players of today. Typically whenever I do any type of NHL rankings, I like to break it down into "original 6 era" and "expansion era".
I struggle to accurately assess a player (say Red Kelly) when in reality I have never seen him play outside of a highlight here and there, and it's hard to say how good he and others were was considering at the time it was a North American players only (I believe the first European played in 1965). Imagine how good a guy like Paul Coffey becomes in the mid 90's if you remove every single European player from the league. He goes from being one of the best, to looking absolutely dominant.

With that said, if I am ranking expansion era players, I would go:
1) Lidstrom
2 Vladdy
3) Chelios
4) Coffey
5) Kronwall

I love Kronwall as he was a great player, and Kronwall definitely has longevity, but I cant put him above anyone else on this list because he just never hit the peaks that these other players were able to get to.

If I'm forced to put original 6 era players on my list:

1) Lidstrom
2) Kelly
3) Goodfellow
4 Vladdy
5) Chelios
6) Coffey
7) Quackenbush
8) Kronwall

 

[Mlotek]

Larry Murphy gets no love. Dude was washed up when he joined the Wings sure, but he was the perfect partner for the start of Lidstrom's career. Smart, efficient, puck-possession hockey (also slooooooow).

More of the Toronto media narrative to run him out of town.

95-6 he had 61 points.
96-7 he had 39 points with Toronto in 69 games.
Had another 6 points in 12 games for the Wings for a total of 45.

Perhaps had Schneider played the entire season in Toronto he'd be closer to 60 points. But the Leafs D that season weren't exactly spectacular, especially for generating offence.

Lets look at the Leafs D in 96-7, keep in mind Murphy had 25 points on next closest D.

Larry Murphy
Matthieu Schneider (26 gp)
Dave Ellet (more valid washed up narrative by 96-7)
Dimitr Yushkevich
Jamie Maccoun
Rob Zettler
David Cooper (19 gp rookie)
Jamie Heward (20gp rookie)
Jason Smith (deadline acquisition)
Craig Wolanin (23 gp)
Matt Martin (36 gp, final of 4 NHL seasons)
Tom Pederson (15 gp, final of NHL career)
Nathan Dempsey (14 gp rookie)
D.J. Smith (8 gp rookie)
Greg Smyth (2 gp, final NHL season)
Yannick Tremblay (5g p rookie)
Jeff Ware (13 gp rookie)

 

[Retire91]

I think Coffey and Chelios are getting ranked too highly due to name recognition. Legendary defenseman for sure but well after their peak when they put on a Wings sweater. If we go by that logic is Hull a top 10 red wing all time? Does Hasek rank up there with Sawchuk?

 

[kliq]

I think Coffey and Chelios are getting ranked too highly due to name recognition. Legendary defenseman for sure but well after their peak when they put on a Wings sweater. If we go by that logic is Hull a top 10 red wing all time? Does Hasek rank up there with Sawchuk?

Obviously peak production over the long haul is what all fans look at in the highest regard (ie. Lidstrom), but when it comes to Coffey and Chelios, I think it depends on how much a person values elite production for a short period of time.

I dont think that is fair to compare these two to Hull or Hasek. Coffey won the Norris as a Wing, and Chelios placed 2nd in Norris voting. For both, at their peaks as a Red Wing they produced at an elite level. Hull was never close to being a Hart Winner on the Wings, and in 2002 Hasek finished with 6 points in Vezina voting (compared to Theodore's and Roy's 105 points). He had a good season, but not comparable to what Coffey and Chelios accomplished. With that said, I still think Hasek would rank top 4 in all time Wings goalies. Sawchuk, Osgood, Lumley, Hasek.

 

[TimIsRetired]

Anybody who doesn't have Kelly #2 is not worth arguing with.

 

[kliq]

Anybody who doesn't have Kelly #2 is not worth arguing with.

For the record, I do have Kelly at #2, but I don't think its fair to dismiss the argument of anyone who doesn't agree. There are definitely points that can be made to put certain players ahead of him.
For example, I ranked Goodfellow below him, but his Hart Trophy win is definitely something that can be used as a major point for him above Kelly in a discussion.

 

[TimIsRetired]

Fair enough. I disagree with people who don't have Kelly ranked #2.