Post-Game Talk: Rangers @ Sabres -- 4/1/21

Discussion in 'New York Rangers' started by Machinehead, Apr 1, 2021.

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3 Stars

  1. Mika Zibanejad

    35.6%
  2. Pavel Buchnevich

    2.9%
  3. Chris Kreider

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Ryan Strome

    12.5%
  5. Artemi Panarin

    53.8%
  6. Kaapo Kakko

    43.3%
  7. Filip Chytil

    26.9%
  8. Julien Gauthier

    1.0%
  9. Alexis Lafreniere

    1.9%
  10. Kevin Rooney

    2.9%
  11. Phil Di Giuseppe

    1.0%
  12. Colin Blackwell

    29.8%
  13. Adam Fox

    23.1%
  14. Ryan Lindgren

    1.0%
  15. Jacob Trouba

    5.8%
  16. K'Andre Miller

    4.8%
  17. Lobor Hajek

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  18. Brendan Smith

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  19. Igor Shestyorkin

    31.7%
  20. Nolan Ryan

    7.7%
Multiple votes are allowed.
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  1. egelband HFBoards Sponsor Sponsor

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    I am liking what I’m seeing with Gauthier lately. He’s starting to play to his strengths and stand out. If he can turn into a third line mainstay, I’d be thrilled.
    Just keep the stick on the ice. He might even turn into a good penalty killer.
     
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  2. aufheben #Fox4Norris

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    Oh I wasn’t trying to make a pun or respond to your analogy directly. :laugh:
     
  3. ohbaby Registered User

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    You can't be serious. You can't base ice time off one game. And the one game you are using went the full length of OT. So of course Zibad played 25 minutes. Anytime a game is close,... you go with your top lines as much as you can. This needn't be explained

    The kids are averaging better than or close to 14 minutes a game except Chytil with his broken thumb. Your argument is faulty and has no merit.

    Enforcer minutes? Please.

    Blackwell plays less minutes than the kids.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2021
  4. eco's bones Registered User

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    First off Lafreniere’s played every game this year. He’s currently averaging 13.56 per game or nearly 14 minutes a night so your taking one game where he only plays 8 minutes is IMO making a mountain out of a molehill.

    Second Lafreniere is just one player on our team. Decisions aren’t and shouldn’t be made just to accommodate one guy. It’s not just his team but it’s Panarin’s and Shesterkin’s and Fox’s and Rooney’s and Chytil’s and Smith’s etc. who are all working for a common goal to win games and make the playoffs and get as far as they can.
     
  5. smoneil Registered User

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    1- Knock off the performance of superiority. Your opinion isn't worth more than anyone else's on these boards and you can drop the "oh me, that I must deal with simpletons" bullshit.

    2- Where was I basing ice time off of one game? We were talking about THIS game, and my view was that Quinn was over-playing Zib and Strome. That's been the case for the last 12 games actually (their over-usage shot up about a dozen games ago). I also mentioned that in games where Zib/Strome were getting the "right" usage, Quinn was usually then giving those minutes to the fourth line.

    3- When you are playing your top 2 lines, including a Hart candidate, a 40-goal scorer, a power-forward LW, a ppg USA/Russian winger, and Strome, and you are EVEN IN A CLOSE GAME to begin with against Buffalo, that in itself is a problem. That's something else that "needn't be explained."

    4- You have not one iota of evidence that says that A- Chytil has a broken thumb, B- If he does it's bothering him at all. He's here. He's producing. He put up beautiful goals two straight games. He's having the breakout year we've been waiting for if you look at his production rate. But his minutes were slashed and he was taken completely off the power play because Quinn thinks he "doesn't play in all three zones."

    5- My issues with Quinn go WAY beyond the Sabres game. He has mismanaged just about every very young (<20 year old) forward on the roster. Basic communication has been a recurring problem (it was cited as an issue by Kravtsov, Andersson, Kakko, and even Zuccarello in his last year here). We are now up to at LEAST four high-value or once high-value prospects who have expressed frustration with their usage by Quinn (Chytil, Andersson, Kravtsov, Kakko). And Quinn routinely makes decisions that make his judgement/ability to evaluate talent highly questionable, none more obvious than his ridiculous "we're going to alternate goalies until one seizes the job" bullshit from the beginning of the season. Everyone knew that Shesty was the #1. You knew it, I knew it, Vally knew it, the zamboni driver knew it, Shesty knew it, Georgiev knew it, f***--even Times Square tourists knew it. Everyone except Quinn.

    So in your quest to defend a coach who is quite obviously in over his head, you can stop with the superiority, you can stop with the made-up injury excuses, you can stop ignoring the PARADE of high end young forwards who have clearly had enough of him, and you can stop trying to straw man the argument by acting like we think Chytil/Laf/Kakko should be a 35 minute per game top line or whatever.

    Yeah, they won the game. Barely. Against quite possibly the worst team in league history, who were playing without their best player and had just traded away another player, and were playing their 3rd string goalie (after digging him up from wherever he'd been, as he hadn't played an NHL game in like 5 years before they signed him). With SEVEN+ minutes of powerplay time. Hu-f***ing-zzah. I actually want to see the game-breaking talent on this team developed so they can bust through and beat teams in the post-season, not a meaningless game against Buffalo.
     
  6. Fvital92 Registered User

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    One of the most dangerous forwards in the game?! Lol. Chytil looked like Gretzky then, he also scored!!!! He almost lost the game with his shitty play, along with Trouba, in OT. Le'ts forget that just because we won, we'll get very far when it matters that way :thumbu:.
    Blackwell is a decent bottom 6 player, no way he should sniff ice time on OT.
     
  7. Tob Registered User

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    uncle larry calling out the power play and Quinn's deployment. bless ye.
     
  8. romba Registered User

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    So give him 18 a night is the answer when he can’t keep up?? Or 11-12 a night of sheltered minutes as he builds strength and confidence, like he got?

    so much confirmation bias with ppl who wat the coach gone. I don’t love him but he’s done a good job with Kakko. Kakko pouted in an interview, yet we all agree he wasn’t conditioned for NHL play. So he’s a Gen Z kid, a little whining after his first real adversity is not ideal but it’s no surprise and no biggie. His play this year shows his development is on course.
     
  9. Leonardo87 NY Rangers and Anaheim Ducks fan, and Pizza fan. Sponsor

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    Geez, can’t imagine this thread if they lost.
     
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  10. mas0764 Registered User

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    This is simple apologism for the administration. Larry Brooks addressed it just recently in an article as well re: the power play.

    I’ll say again, I’m not calling for Quinn’s head, but he has some big problems with player usage right now and he has to fix it. End of story.
     
  11. mas0764 Registered User

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    They are here to win a championship, not just make the playoffs. That is best accomplished a certain way. I think they’ll understand.

    This Bill Parcells “you play to win every game,” approach is outdated and the players themselves know it... again, load management, player movement so you can import stars for super teams, etc, it’s a new era. This isnt the 1980s.

    I hate it but I think Panarin will understand.
     
  12. ohbaby Registered User

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    I see you have dug in your heels, and what I say won't make a difference to you. And if I was a bit crass, I apologize.
    But just to summarize, it's only one game, 2 points is all that matters. Chytil does have a broken thumb, been reported many times. This game went into OT, so there is extended icetime for top players. The kids this year get a good amount of ice time. All facts that you don't consider, making your argument faulty and without merit.

    Just FYI, a broken thumb doesn't heal in 3 or 4 weeks. It takes 3 or 4 months. Chytil averaged close to 15 minutes last year. It's logical they are being cautious with his minutes right now. They don't want any setbacks. A broken thumb never fully heals. He will always have some damage to the cartilage. He might likely will regain full use with no pain, but the damage to the cartilage remains.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2021
  13. Synergy27 F-A-C-G-C-E

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    The guy has openly admitted to “forgetting” about players on the bench multiple times. How is this even an argument?
     
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  14. huerter Registered User

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    How in the hell is 3 on 3 sheltered?
     
  15. smoneil Registered User

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    And that's a nice summary of the many ways we differ:

    It's NOT only one game. This nonsense has been going on all season, and has gotten worse over the last 12 games (Zib's minutes in particular have gone WAY up over the last 12).

    Two points is not all that matters. If this team makes the playoffs while they go about developing talent the likes of which this franchise has literally never had before? Great. I'm all for it. I'd be all for it because it would be good for the kids to be part of a playoff series. But the kids won't be played in a playoff series. They will get ZERO benefit from watching the Rooney's, Blackwell's, and PDG's of the team out on the ice while they sit on the bench.

    Chytil HAD a broken thumb. He went on IR. Did the healing thing. Was out longer than anticipated, actually because of the Covid. People--on this website--have speculated that it still bothers him or that it's still broken because they want an easy excuse for why this idiot coach has cut the minutes of a player in a breakout season.

    The kids are not getting a good amount of ice time. Look at top draft picks and top prospects for other teams. They get significantly more minutes, particularly on the PP because those are sheltered minutes. Quinn won't let them play a regular shift until they can show him their third or fourth Selke nomination. He sits some players for a mistake and double shifts other players who make twice as many mistakes. And the communication is apparently so bad that the players don't even know what they need to do in order to get the minutes due to players producing or drafted as highly as they were.

    You can look down your nose at me and bellow all about how you think my "argument is faulty and without merit," but your ego is blocking some pretty notable facts from YOUR vision. Like the FACT that this is now very clearly a trend--Quinn has been handed several of the top young talents in the league, and he can't even get them to produce like fourth liners. Laf and Kakko have had some of the absolute worst rookie numbers relative to their draft positions. Two other high end (at the time) rookies literally fled the country due to the lack of communication and consistency. And I still can't get over the stupidity of the goalie rotation at the beginning of the season. NOBODY but Quinn thought Georgiev was even close to Shesty. It also took him forever to move away from that rotation. Just like it's taking him forever to realize that throwing PP1 out there for the full 2 minutes over and over again isn't going to just magically fix the power play.

    Quinn is clearly overmatched tactically, but I honestly think the lack of communication is the bigger problem. He has no idea how to communicate with pro players. I think that was the biggest difference when Knobloch was behind the bench. Same game plan, but he communicated it better both beforehand and in game. The team started stronger, played with more of a jump. Then Quinn came back. And we're back to starting games without any cohesion. It IS possible to "ruin" a top-level prospect (just ask Edmonton and Buffalo). Keeping Quinn with these kids is playing with fire.
     
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  16. ohbaby Registered User

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    Maybe you missed my earlier post. When you have a Zibanejad, Kreider, Buch, Panarin, and Strome, playing close to their absolute best in their careers, asking for additional minutes for our top prospects is nearly impossible. 3rd line minutes is all they'll get, and I know,... any coach in the NHL would do the same. The youngsters had limited opportunities to move up in the line up, with players being out. They had a few chances to earn top minutes. They are just not ready to replace guys playing their career best. Kakko has improved and has now moved up. So there is no great conspiracy to hold back the kids or that the coaches don't have a clue. It's only how the NHL works.

    With this and the facts you continue to ignore,... like they are averaging 14 minutes a game (Kakko, Chytil, Laff combined), which are very decent minutes for a 3rd line,... makes me wonder what all the hubbub is about. They are not ready to replace guys getting top minutes. It's that simple.

    Quinn addressed this minutes thing last night and he is right.
    04.01.21 Postgame: Coach Quinn | NHL.com

    What we have going on right now is a really good thing. You thinks these vets want to lose their spots? They know what's behind them. They know these kids are talented. Which is why the vets are playing close to their career best. They are going to do their absolute best, not to be replaced by the talented youngsters. Competition is a good thing.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2021
  17. aufheben #Fox4Norris

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    New chapter in the DSM.
     
  18. smoneil Registered User

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    I saw your earlier post, you pretentious jackass. Those players are great. Guess what? They have been struggling on the PP. Hard. Near the bottom of the league in PP% Yet they get rolled out for the full 2 every time. Why? They were struggling to do anything to beat Buffalo. In fact, what should have been the game winning goal was scored on the ONE shift the kid line played in the third. They must not have scored a 200 foot goal, because they got stapled to the bench afterwards. Needed more ice for guys like Rooney to be out there and do nothing while BUFFALO tied it in the closing seconds. When top guys aren't getting it done, you mix it up.

    Now to your "14 minute average" nonsense. The "hubbub" is due to the tends. Chytil is having a breakout season and his minutes have been slashed from last season. He's producing significantly more points per 60 and getting punished for it. Blackwell is on the PP over him. Lemieux was on the PP over him. And about that 14 minute number? Over the last 10 games, a span where he has 5 points, Chytil has played 14+ minutes exactly twice--the two Flyers massacre games where he was getting fourth line minutes until the third period when Knoblauch sent out the bottom six more often. The other 8 games? The following: 12:26, 13:09, 9:57, 13:25, 11:33, 11:55, 12:16, and 10:02. In fact, he's only had 9 games north of 14 minutes per (and I'm counting a game where he was actually a few seconds shy of 14). This for a player in our biggest position of need in the midst of his best production season. And he can't get a shift against Buffalo despite actually performing against them when the top two lines weren't really getting it done?

    The last ten games for Laf tell the same story. Only 2 games in that span north of 14 minutes, but there are THREE games around or below 8 minutes TOI. Three more games below 12 minutes per game. Of all the kids, I get this one the most--he's behind Panarin and Kreider, and he's not likely to match either of them if the roles were reversed (I honestly think Chytil, with Strome's usage and PP time, produces at least as much while also being better in his own end). But playing him ~10 minutes a game? He doesn't need to be a spectator, he needs to be told what to work on and then go out and work on it in a game. Honestly, I'd rather they send him back down to juniors rather than play him 8 minutes a game against the worst team in the league (baby superstars are supposed to learn on wounded animals after all).

    I'm not ignoring your "facts." I'm pointing out that the situation has been getting progressively worse over the last month. The growth of the prospects is being sacrificed in the hopes that the playoffs might happen, and that's a bad idea. I also put no stock in the opinion of Quinn. His judgement is questionable.

    Now how about you put the smarm aside and try addressing some of the facts I put forward that you seem determined to ignore. How many top prospects need to drastically underperform before you think there's a problem? How many top prospects need to complain about the near total lack of communication from their coach before you think there might be a problem? How many more times does Quinn need to throw the SAME PP1 with the SAME strategy out there before you think there might be some reasonable questions in his tactical judgement?
     
  19. ohbaby Registered User

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    double post
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2021
  20. ohbaby Registered User

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    I see this devolved into name calling. You feel better now?

    So you don't agree me. Don't care of about the coache's judgement. And the prospects [time] being sacrificed in the hopes that the playoffs might happen, is a bad idea. Got it. Maybe next time try cutting those Prozac's in half.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2021
  21. chosen Registered User

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    Coaches care about winning, now. It determines their employment.

    Management has to take the longterm view.

    If a coach goes against management's outlook, they will also be terminated.

    Therefore, management is okay with Quinn, today.

    That's the way it works.

    If someone is angry about individual player usage, their gripe is with management, even if they don't understand that.
     
  22. chosen Registered User

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    Ye, not we.

    I don't care who the coach is if they're winning.
     
  23. chosen Registered User

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    Yes, but one can't control what others think.
     
  24. chosen Registered User

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    But, not angry.
     
  25. chosen Registered User

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    Some people like being angry and ...

    Can't say the rest, or I would be suspended.
     
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