Rangers retooled prospect pool

[BroadwayBlues]

A little lacking on the D department.

Not D but C and LW.

 

[Lays]

“Awful statistical season but flashes of brilliance”

I mean he’ll be a solid player and maybe a good second line guy but he’s overhyped imo

Chytil gets very little hype mostly because he was unknown at the time of the draft. Not saying he’s a surefire stud but he’s a project with his creativity, size, and skating. He’s not good right now but like the poster above said, he’s shown flashes of dominance just needs to be a bit more consistent. We’re not worried about his production right now, we’re worried about him developing which he has done over the season

 

[ThreeLeftSkates]

Just in time to sign Getzlaf.

Fixed it for ya, Jeffy.

 

[Kocur Dill]

Barf

 

[Fataldogg]

Yeah but Georgiev will help with a lot of defensive shortcomings.

You mean Shestyorkin.

Georgiev was erratic this season.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Would've loved Gorton in Vancouver, his short work in Boston basically won them the cup and him with the reins in NYR has been exactly what you'd want from a fan... i dont know why some of you rag fans were complaining all year. Assets and now a lottery pick in 2ish years lol

Vancouver is closer in their rebuild to contending. Pettersson is a superstar. We don't have any player close to as good. There's a chance that Kakko could come close, but he still has to prove it and I'm not convinced he'll be as good as Pettersson.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I love how everyone that doesn't sing praises is a hater. It's like the world is black and white, guess what? It is not. The list you provided can be matched by others, it is not loaded, it is a reasonably strong pool heavily bolstered by a single player.

Some Ranger fans are absolutely brain-washed by the talking points that management puts out to the fan-base. Its not worth your time arguing.

I think you are right. There is some decent depth here that has come from a former contender selling off their best players. There is a lack of top-end talent. Kakko will help out in that regard, as will Shestyorkin, but the GM still needs to acquire more top-end talent, with the biggest need being on defense.

Same goes for Shestryokin. The claim about SKA not playing defense is absurd. They control the games from start to finish and are camped in the other team's offensive zone most of the time given that they are two levels about pretty much all the teams save for a few of them. He faces 23 shots per game on average and has fallen flat on his face in the playoffs.

I think you are wrong here.

No one has claimed they don't play defense, but they are not a great defensive team. If you compare their strengths and weaknesses to CSKA, CSKA has much less offensive talent, but collectively plays much more like a team. That is why they were able to outplay SKA over seven games. I said from the beginning of that series that CSKA would win because they were the better team. SKA controlled the play most games, but CSKA played good defense and counter-attacked well.

It's not unusual that goalies who play for great teams that control the puck almost the whole game will face more high-quality scoring chances and won't have their stats inflated by a lot of low-danger shots. Pronman wrote a recent piece on this about Spencer Knight, the goalie playing for the NTDP. Like Shestyorkin, he plays for a powerhouse team in his league, and faces a lot of high-quality scoring chances. I think during the KHL season that the games were variable enough that the game-plan wasn't always what some of these teams did to SKA in these playoffs, which I think skewed Shestyorkin's SV% to look worse than it was, but to claim he fell flat on his face in the playoffs is laughable. He allowed 11 goals in 6 games. Goaltending was not SKA's problem in the six games Shestyorkin played in that series.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Vitaly Kravtsov just outpaced most D+1 Russian players in KHL production. Had a higher point share than guys like Kuznetsov did. Scoring is different in the NHL, not sure about the KHL. Still a top 10 prospect outside the NHL, and some had him in the top 5 or at 1 (Button).

K'Andre Miller just was top 3 in points by NCAA Freshmen. He plays defense. Similar production to Zach Werenski.

Shestyorkin just had his best season in the KHL. His numbers are insane. His team is on of the best in the KHL, but he is part of the reason for that. If his numbers aren't to your liking, Georgiev just posted a .914 SV% on a team with little to no defense.

This is very misleading.

You have to try very hard to bend stats to say Kravtsov outpaced most of the best KHL Russian players though the years. This point shares stuff is how some are doing it. Kravtsov is towards the bottom of that list of forwards in PPG and thats as a late birthday. Some of those players are early birthdays, and therefore at a disadvantage. Most of them were around a similar number, .5PPG. Kravtsov had a respectable season, but once fans start spinning to make his season seem better than it was, I think its worth keeping things in perspective. If the expectation is that Kravtsov will be a better player than Tarasenko and Panarin due to point shares, I think people are not being fair to the player.

The Miller thing is also very misleading. I've seen MSG circulate this graphic many times, and what that graphic doesn't take into account is that most of those players who MSG puts on the same graphic with Miller played their freshman season about a season earlier. Thats not to say Miller didn't have a good season, but I think expectations are way out of wack if he's expected to be Werenski or Hanifin due to misleading stats.

What's strange is how you are willing to concede Shestyorkin's stats, which are far from misleading. Of all the stats that MSG hypes up, he's about the only one whose play is as good as the best stats you could find for these players would paint their ability as. Why should we concede his stats but mislead about other prospects?

 

[Derp Kassian]

Vancouver is closer in their rebuild to contending. Pettersson is a superstar. We don't have any player close to as good. There's a chance that Kakko could come close, but he still has to prove it and I'm not convinced he'll be as good as Pettersson.

better high end not nearly the depth of prospects in bottom forwards and Defense. Our GM doesn't understand that more picks is better and wants to do "hockey trades"... NYR and NJ and DET fans should be happy their staffs understand that you need high volume.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

better high end not nearly the depth of prospects in bottom forwards and Defense. Our GM doesn't understand that more picks is better and wants to do "hockey trades"... NYR and NJ and DET fans should be happy their staffs understand that you need high volume.

You have a point. I'm not saying that Vancouver is going to contend right away, but I don't think we are either. Both teams need more players before they can consider contention. We need top-end talent. Vancouver needs depth.

 

[JimmyG89]

You have to try very hard to bend stats to say Kravtsov outpaced most of the best KHL Russian players though the years. This point shares stuff is how some are doing it. Kravtsov is towards the bottom of that list of forwards in PPG and thats as a late birthday. Some of those players are early birthdays, and therefore at a disadvantage. Most of them were around a similar number, .5PPG. Kravtsov had a respectable season, but once fans start spinning to make his season seem better than it was, I think its worth keeping things in perspective. If the expectation is that Kravtsov will be a better player than Tarasenko and Panarin due to point shares, I think people are not being fair to the player.

Here is the context of the point shares you are talking about:



His team was trash. Look at the other top players who produced in the KHL in their D+1 season: 19-Year Old KHL Players - Regular Season Stats

Sort by PPG. Look at the teams those guys were on. It's not a coincidence that his numbers were down in comparison. His team couldn't score. He was very close to being their best offensive player. His best teammates in scoring were Ryan Stoa and Christian Thomas. These are AHL players, playing in a better league.

The Miller thing is also very misleading. I've seen MSG circulate this graphic many times, and what that graphic doesn't take into account is that most of those players who MSG puts on the same graphic with Miller played their freshman season about a season earlier. Thats not to say Miller didn't have a good season, but I think expectations are way out of wack if he's expected to be Werenski or Hanifin due to misleading stats.

That's fine, but Miller did have a fantastic season. He also wasn't the 8th overall pick like Werenski was. Yes, he was a year older than Werenski in his first NCAA season.

What's strange is how you are willing to concede Shestyorkin's stats, which are far from misleading. Of all the stats that MSG hypes up, he's about the only one whose play is as good as the best stats you could find for these players would paint their ability as. Why should we concede his stats but mislead about other prospects?

Regarding this, goalie stats in the KHL are inflated. Look no further than Magnus Hellberg going to the same team as Shesty and putting up a .940 compared to his .950+. Then you have Koskinen leave the KHL and come here and put up average numbers (yes, he did go from a very good KHL team to a lottery NHL team). Yes, these players are older, but the league they are in is friendly to goalie stats. I'm not going to kill the guy because he clearly is a fantastic goalie, but to say his stats match his ability would be a bit much. I'd much rather see something like GSAA, but I'm not sure the KHL has this.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Here is the context of the point shares you are talking about:



His team was trash. Look at the other top players who produced in the KHL in their D+1 season: 19-Year Old KHL Players - Regular Season Stats

Sort by PPG. Look at the teams those guys were on. It's not a coincidence that his numbers were down in comparison. His team couldn't score. He was very close to being their best offensive player. His best teammates in scoring were Ryan Stoa and Christian Thomas. These are AHL players, playing in a better league.

His team isn't trash. They were a playoff team. They didn't have their best season, but were middle of the league. Of all these players mentioned, he played the most playoff games in his D+1 season. Tarasenko was the only other player whose team even made the playoffs, so I don't think "his team being bad" is a good excuse.

Why can't we just say he had a respectable season in line with many of the better players his age that have come before him in this league? Instead, some fans try to spin his stats and claim he was actually better than the majority of these players when he really wasn't. Its misleading and counterproductive. The kid still has to improve. A player who averages less than .5PPG in the KHL is not yet an NHL'er. There were people who claimed he was going to walk into the Rangers and instantly be the team's best RW. The team has a RW who played in the same league at Kravtsov's age, and averaged a higher PPG. Thats not to even account that this was five years ago.

If people take this attitude that he was the best on his team, the teammates were the problem, his point shares place him better than elite NHL'ers, he's going to replicate what Pettersson did because Craig Button ranks him as the best prospect not in the NHL, he's not going to be allowed to properly develop. I hope the GM has a more measured approach.

Regarding this, goalie stats in the KHL are inflated. Look no further than Magnus Hellberg going to the same team as Shesty and putting up a .940 compared to his .950+. Then you have Koskinen leave the KHL and come here and put up average numbers (yes, he did go from a very good KHL team to a lottery NHL team). Yes, these players are older, but the league they are in is friendly to goalie stats. I'm not going to kill the guy because he clearly is a fantastic goalie, but to say his stats match his ability would be a bit much. I'd much rather see something like GSAA, but I'm not sure the KHL has this.

That doesn't mean that Shestyorkin wasn't the best player in the KHL this season. He had the second highest SV% ever in a KHL season. The second best goalie in the league had a SV% .008 worse. Hellberg's and Koskinen's stats are not bad, but there is a big difference between Shestyorkin's stats and their stats. Shestyorkin SV% was .013% better than Hellberg this season. Thats a big difference. Over two seasons, his SV% was .007 higher than Koskinen. His stats are way better than Sorokin's every year. Hellberg and Koskinen having high SV%'s doesn't invalidate Shestyorkin's SV%. And now we also see that Koskinen isn't a bad NHL goalie, so these aren't a bunch of beer league players that are having high SV%'s. Hellberg might also come back to the NHL eventually.

The lack of respect that Rangers fans give this guy compared to other prospects is hard to believe. They think that a league average or slightly better goalie is ahead of him. If thats the case, Shestyorkin is the most overrated NHL prospect in decades. His stats place him as the best KHL goalie ever. He's pretty unanimously been viewed for years as a top 3-4 goalie prospect, if not higher on some lists. He already plays and plays well for one of the best National Teams in hockey. What more does he have to do? There is not a more accomplished Rangers prospect, and a more underrated Rangers prospect. Its bizarre.

 

[JimmyG89]

The lack of respect that Rangers fans give this guy compared to other prospects is hard to believe.

It's not a lack of respect. The amount of goals that get scored in the KHL has been lower than the NHL for a while. KHL numbers are inflated for goalies. End of discussion. He's the best non-NHL goalie in the world, but when you have someone like Ilya Samsonov come over and put up an under .900 SV% in the AHL (and he's on a good AHL team), you have to think about transitioning to the NHL and where he will be one year from now.

Tarasenko was the only other player whose team even made the playoffs, so I don't think "his team being bad" is a good excuse.

His team was the 2nd LOWEST scoring team in the KHL. The lowest? Last place in the entire league. They didn't even average two goals a game. At some point, it's the teammates of a D+1 player who put up roughly .4ppg in 2nd best league in the world. He had little to no help. You start looking at the other teams of the guys who put up more points and they had legit good KHL players on their roster to go with them.

The reason they made the playoffs? 10th in GA. Traktor goalies were facing nearly 30 per game. Demchenko had a remarkable season in terms of volume and quality.

Yes, Button had him ranked #1 mid season. Do I expect Pettersson like production next season? I wouldn't say he has no chance to do this, but I think given a decent amount of time on ice, he could get around .5PPG, maybe a 20-20 or 15-25 season. Anything above that should be considered amazing. Just remember that scoring is up across the board and .5PPG is not the same as it was even 3 years ago.

 

[Ori]

inb4 Gorts and Clarke take Podkolzin instead

He will get fired with immediate effect - it will never happen almost 60 years since Rangers drafted a young elite prospect in Jack Hughes or Kaapo Kakko!

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

He's 19 for almost half a year still....it's a matter of semantics anyway.



no he's not great right now but you can see the flashes of talent he shows. Ranger fans are excited about him longer term. He's scored a few beuaty goals this year including these ones driving and beating dmen to the outside.

Check out Nikita was on waivers now rumored to be going to the KHLScherbak.

A couple of nice goals doesnt mean that player is good.

 

[Stasis]

Lottery ball falls differently and this thread doesn't exist. Butterfly effect!

Aye but that lottery ball, and before the ball, has fallen differently for the entire existence of the Rangers until now. So I feel like we get to talk about it a bit.

And there's a lot of overrating and underrating of players going on in here. One poster listed facts. Those are fun, and help form a neutral and logical idea of what our prospect pool does (and can) look like vs. being rose-colored glass homers or biased hyperbolic hating (not referring to you with that last one, necessarily). Anyway, I don't like these types of topics from other teams, nor from my own. It just stirs up BS while we should be enjoying (hopefully!) our fun years to come. And of course a random Habs fan comes in to post their list. I love it. I live in Montreal now and I can't even discuss our prospects without hearing twice as much about theirs. Yes, it's good. Make a thread about it. It'll be as useful as this one.

 

[HockeyIsCool]

I don't know. I look at that list and im not seeing a ton that can't be replicated by most non playoff teams other than a fortunate 2nd OA. These lists of obscure prospects that rarely pan out are a good lesson to some on HF boards who over value prospects and draft picks. Most don't ever stick in the NHL as will be the case with most of this list and every other teams list as well.

 

[Golden Puppers]

Check out Nikita was on waivers now rumored to be going to the KHLScherbak.

A couple of nice goals doesnt mean that player is good.

Maybe you missed the part where I said Chytil isn't a great player....

Also he's 19 not 22/23 like Scherback was when he got his shot in the NHL. A lot more time and room to grown than him.

 

[Golden Puppers]

“Awful statistical season but flashes of brilliance”

I mean he’ll be a solid player and maybe a good second line guy but he’s overhyped imo

No he's not, you're fabricating a narrative.

Ranger fans are not hyping Chytil at all, I have yet to see a Ranger fan saying Chytil is gonna be a star or top line player or anything. They are excited about having a player like him in the system but no one is 'overhyping' him like you claim.

 

[Canovin]

1. Jack Hughes/Kaapo Kakko
2. Vitali Kravtsov
3. Filip Chytil
4. Igor Shestyorkin
5. Lias Andersson

Also very deep 6-12 with second tier prospects. Along with the Jets pick, two considitional picks that could possibly end with potentially four first round picks. And Adam Fox likely coming to NY.

Jeff Gorton has done a masterful job.

Thoughts on where the Rangers have gone from a completely depleated prospect pool to where they are now.

Lots of young guys that needs Lucic to protect

 

[slybel]

How much for Kreider?

 

[Strait2thecup]

No he's not, you're fabricating a narrative.

Ranger fans are not hyping Chytil at all, I have yet to see a Ranger fan saying Chytil is gonna be a star or top line player or anything. They are excited about having a player like him in the system but no one is 'overhyping' him like you claim.

See “chytlmania” after he scored like 3 goals in a week

 

[JT Kreider]

See “chytlmania” after he scored like 3 goals in a week

Any 19 year old who scored a goal in 5 straight games would have gotten a thread. Especially a first round pick. This is Hockey's Future board after all.

TBH though, it doesn't take much to warrant a hype thread on this board these days.

 

[Strait2thecup]

Any 19 year old who scored a goal in 5 straight games would have gotten a thread. Especially a first round pick. This is Hockey's Future board after all.

TBH though, it doesn't take much to warrant a hype thread on this board these days.

This is true

Feel like expectations were higher than how he performed this year though

 

[ThreeLeftSkates]

How much for Kreider?

Prime Gretzky plus 3 firsts.
He is going to break out for you next year.