Prospect Info: Rangers Prospects Thread (Updated: 11.25.21)

[bobbop]

Nanne and Tanrstrom not good picks.

As for what @bobbop said, I get that you don't draft centers just to have centers, but at some point the Rangers need to address this problem. If you're always importing centers from other teams it's a losing battle because of the cap, mileage, and often teams aren't going to part with their best centers unless there are red flags.

The time to go crazy with centers is rounds 3-4 with the as of now 5 picks. You'll be able to throw stuff against a wall and something will stick.

I hate this whole defeatist "the Rangers can't draft a good center because they haven't in a long time" angle.

I always say, do the work. Figure out what you've been doing wrong and use analytics. If a guy has a fixable flaw (skating stride/can't play defense/etc.) but is Yannic Perrault between the dots, I'm game.

It doesn't take a physicist or advanced linear algebra PHD to know that drafting goalies in round 2 isn't going to help you on faceoffs or score goals.

I said what?

 

[Roo Returns]

I said what?

When you said....Anyone who needs a cautionary tale of why you don’t force position should look at our old friend Don Maloney, who picked Dylan Strome ahead of Mitch Marner because…wait for it…”he‘s a center”.

The rest is history…and so was Maloney in Arizona.

 

[bobbop]

When you said....Anyone who needs a cautionary tale of why you don’t force position should look at our old friend Don Maloney, who picked Dylan Strome ahead of Mitch Marner because…wait for it…”he‘s a center”.

The rest is history…and so was Maloney in Arizona.

A case of making a (very bad) value judgement just to pick a center. In this particular case, Marner was actually higher on the Coyotes board than Strome. That’s how you make a bad decision.

 

[Roo Returns]

A case of making a (very bad) value judgement just to pick a center. In this particular case, Marner was actually higher on the Coyotes board than Strome. That’s how you make a bad decision.

That's definitely a silly thing to do. We all know about Don's uneven drafting record while he was in NY so that's just how it goes for him. He was all about Korpikoski who was a very average player and just never seemed to fit in or enjoy New York. That goes back to better psychological evaluation/emotional intelligence tests for these prospects so no more Kovacs/Zborovskys/Anderssens/Gropps.

I think once you get to rounds 3-6 though, it's ok to diversify positions unless you're really in love with someone. With the current state of the Rangers if it's round five for example and there's a center with high IQ that has a rough stride vs. a DMan in the Brandon Crawley/Hunter Skinner vain, I'm going center every time for the next four years.

 

[Joey Bones]

@Roo Returns

I'd have a wait-and-see approach to Transtrom. The kid didn't look good in his D+1 season, but he's moving to a new system for, hopefully, a better opportunity. We see this with prospects sometimes, something could click and then they provide that touch that we've been waiting to see.

NYR has his rights until June 1, 2024. If I'm not mistaken the kid is also 16 or 17 days away from being in the 2021 draft class.

Way too early to give up on the kid...

 

[eco's bones]

That's definitely a silly thing to do. We all know about Don's uneven drafting record while he was in NY so that's just how it goes for him. He was all about Korpikoski who was a very average player and just never seemed to fit in or enjoy New York. That goes back to better psychological evaluation/emotional intelligence tests for these prospects so no more Kovacs/Zborovskys/Anderssens/Gropps.

I think once you get to rounds 3-6 though, it's ok to diversify positions unless you're really in love with someone. With the current state of the Rangers if it's round five for example and there's a center with high IQ that has a rough stride vs. a DMan in the Brandon Crawley/Hunter Skinner vain, I'm going center every time for the next four years.

FWIW 2004 wasn’t the deepest of drafts and for where the Rangers took Korpikoski that wasn’t a bad pick. Going in Lauri was considered the 3rd best of three Finnish forwards with 1st round potential. The other two Tukonen and Nokelainen went before him but turned out much worse picks particularly the very highly ranked Tukonen.

 

[cwede]

... Korpikoski who was a very average player and just never seemed to fit in or enjoy New York.
... a DMan in the Brandon Crawley/Hunter Skinner vein ...

my views vary here a little

i wish Torts hadn't been so aggressive purging the bottom 6 of Betts, Freddie and Korpi. The Korpi-Lisin trade was Graves-Bigras before Graves-Bigras.
Korpi had a effective and long role-playing career, with a couple >15+ Goals seasons, and top 25 in GP for his draft year.

and Skinner may prove to be a diamond in the rough,
his strong starts, at tougher, higher levels, both post-draft seasons, were encouraging.
RHD, despite NYR depth w 8, 23, Nils and Schneider, are always valued assets
(as are C's, I agree with you there)

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

That's definitely a silly thing to do. We all know about Don's uneven drafting record while he was in NY so that's just how it goes for him. He was all about Korpikoski who was a very average player and just never seemed to fit in or enjoy New York. That goes back to better psychological evaluation/emotional intelligence tests for these prospects so no more Kovacs/Zborovskys/Anderssens/Gropps.

I think once you get to rounds 3-6 though, it's ok to diversify positions unless you're really in love with someone. With the current state of the Rangers if it's round five for example and there's a center with high IQ that has a rough stride vs. a DMan in the Brandon Crawley/Hunter Skinner vain, I'm going center every time for the next four years.

If drafting was that easy, there wouldn't be any busts. Every team has their misses. Tampa drafting Koekkoek and Connolly in the top-10, Drouin failing as a 3rd overall pick.

Chicago had its fair share of misses, but we rarely hear about them. Or what about Colorado not drafting a player who played 100 games for them outside the top-10 since Tyson Barrie 12 years ago?

 

[2014nyr]

If drafting was that easy, there wouldn't be any busts. Every team has their misses. Tampa drafting Koekkoek and Connolly in the top-10, Drouin failing as a 3rd overall pick.

Chicago had its fair share of misses, but we rarely hear about them. Or what about Colorado not drafting a player who played 100 games for them outside the top-10 since Tyson Barrie 12 years ago?

that col stat is insane.

but you're absolutely right, everyone has misses. big picture, the last decade plus our drafting has been very solid.

i think the criticisms come down to 2 things - we haven't found a star/high outperformer statistically. (obviously excluding the 2 most recent drafts)

and our misses have been some ugly ones, especially in that 2-4 round range.

it should be noted though that btw prob 2012 and 2016 we really had minimal draft capital. the boom bust types we took all busted other than buch (will say gropp was such a horrible pick from the moment it was made someone should have been fired - that pick, with what was on the board, is embarrassing - he never had any chance of making it).

while overall, i think our scouts grade out pretty well...i do think its fair to have some critiques. for one - not so much a critique as a thought i'm throwing out - its obvious gordie and co place a high value on character and discipline. virtually every pick seemed like sort of a model teammate/guy coaches loved. i got no issue with valuing that quality, but i feel like thats had a role in the vanilla flavor of this team for forever. outside of jt miller, i can't remember a single guy in recent history that needed to reign it in, either on ice or off ice (sorry forgot kovacs). i'm not sure what the right balance is there, or if thats something others even see validity in, but it seems like we're addressing it to some degree recently w/ schneider, berard, cuylle...hopedfully someone can find k'andres angry button. i think thats a big part of why we have the leagues biggest glut of borderline ahl/nhl players. and secondly, we have not at all prioritized speed / skating. this roster is desperate for some juice to drive the pace and create some chaos on the ice...i know we took that finnish kid a year or 2 ago but it sounds like there's not a ton of hope he makes it. since hagelin / grabner we've had zero in that area and it kills us. the players like to think of themselves as a fast team...and they are overall...but we have to be one of the least explosive teams in the league. that needs to change this summer in the market as a now solution. but longer term i'd much rather see us stockpile at least one kid at some point in the draft that can absolutely fly rather than our annual ogre selection.

 

[Ola]

If drafting was that easy, there wouldn't be any busts. Every team has their misses. Tampa drafting Koekkoek and Connolly in the top-10, Drouin failing as a 3rd overall pick.

Chicago had its fair share of misses, but we rarely hear about them. Or what about Colorado not drafting a player who played 100 games for them outside the top-10 since Tyson Barrie 12 years ago?

I had some beers in a hotel bar once, just a few years ago, with a head of amature scouting of a team with a pretty horrible drafting record, maybe even worse than Col outside a few high picks. Not hanging him out, but the way he talked about prospects, loved to just tear players apart besides a few he liked (I noted to myself that the ones he liked mostly played in the CHL). And it were all based on cliches, cliches and more cliches. At some point the thought to put my phone on record even crossed my mind.

I am sceptical about using analytics too much when it comes to drafting for a long list of reasons. But the human factor in all the ways it displays itself -- its hard to get away from.

Why does someone like that have a job? Its connections. He is a good guy, everyone is. Means well. The way he talks, it will sound good to some. Its an organizational issue. How do you make sure to have everyone deliver?

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I had some beers in a hotel bar once, just a few years ago, with a head of amature scouting of a team with a pretty horrible drafting record, maybe even worse than Col outside a few high picks. Not hanging him out, but the way he talked about prospects, loved to just tear players apart besides a few he liked (I noted to myself that the ones he liked mostly played in the CHL). And it were all based on cliches, cliches and more cliches. At some point the thought to put my phone on record even crossed my mind.

I am sceptical about using analytics too much when it comes to drafting for a long list of reasons. But the human factor in all the ways it displays itself -- its hard to get away from.

Why does someone like that have a job? Its connections. He is a good guy, everyone is. Means well. The way he talks, it will sound good to some. Its an organizational issue. How do you make sure to have everyone deliver?

Yes, hockey culture is a bit outdated, but I think it's also in large part due to the fact that we are talking about 17 or 18 year olds here. On draft day, you have to determine which kid aged 17 or 18 will have the best career 6-7 years from now. That's a lot harder to pinpoint than for instance the NFL draft where players go through college for 4 years and are drafted at age 22.

 

[Ola]

@2014nyr I definitely agree with you re the lack of speed. Like we have good skaters, but that isn’t necessarily what makes you play fast. We definitely lack that water bug type at center for example. Guys like Zibanejad just takes time to get going. His skating is a great asset when he is flying down the ice, but not when turning up ice with the puck more or less starting at stand still. Also a big reason for why I don’t at all believe in that Kravy has potential at center. Love him as a wing prospect, but not at center.

 

[broadwayblue]

we have not at all prioritized speed / skating. this roster is desperate for some juice to drive the pace and create some chaos on the ice...i know we took that finnish kid a year or 2 ago but it sounds like there's not a ton of hope he makes it. since hagelin / grabner we've had zero in that area and it kills us. the players like to think of themselves as a fast team...and they are overall...but we have to be one of the least explosive teams in the league. that needs to change this summer in the market as a now solution. but longer term i'd much rather see us stockpile at least one kid at some point in the draft that can absolutely fly rather than our annual ogre selection.

Haven't heard much about Leevi Aaltonen. And I agree, it would be nice to get another burner on the team. I'm sure the general lack of team speed played a decent part in signing Kreider long term.

 

[nyr2k2]

Aaltonen is weak and doesn't do anything without the puck on his stick. He'll have a better opportunity with KooKoo this season than he did last year with KalPa, but he still has to do something with it. He hasn't been able to regularly stay in the lineup the last two years in Liiga (he was very young, but still).

 

[2014nyr]

@2014nyr I definitely agree with you re the lack of speed. Like we have good skaters, but that isn’t necessarily what makes you play fast. We definitely lack that water bug type at center for example. Guys like Zibanejad just takes time to get going. His skating is a great asset when he is flying down the ice, but not when turning up ice with the puck more or less starting at stand still. Also a big reason for why I don’t at all believe in that Kravy has potential at center. Love him as a wing prospect, but not at center.

yea we just don't have any engine guys that drive play / put teams on their heels. we have a lot of good skaters, but nobody explosive - no one backs teams off or makes them uncomfortable handling the puck. so when we turn teams over into space we can look like an offensive juggernaut on the rush with the talent we have...but we have trouble manufacturing anything coming out of our own end organically trying to break down teams who have their structure in place... aka the tight checking games we continually faceplant in.

i largely agree on kravy - i think hes best left at wing. that said, of the young trio i think he's the only one who could play there in the right conditions. it was really disappointing to not have made a play on arvidsson given the cost...in my eyes hes exactly what we need. if you put him on a line with panarin in it'd be a adding a way more skilled, turbo mode jesper fast and in that situation i think krav could thrive at c - arv would take the top off teams and create the runway underneath for krav / panarin to operate in - as well as be a menace on the puck that would force the turnovers and bad passes krav/panarin would punish teams for. panarin prefers to play off the puck coming up ice so to me that marries our best compliment as a transition puck carrier / skill level / vision at center with the kind of player that would open up the ice for it to take over. but in a vacuum i agree krav is better suited to wing.

obviously that ideas out the window, but if i'm drury i'm looking to add a burner to our top 6 and bottom 6. at the very least there needs to be one added before next season. and longer term i don't think there's any excuse to not be adding at least one of that type to the pool every draft given the way todays game is played. whether its a first rounder or a 7th rounder we need to place a high value on dynamic skating ability and getting enough of those assets into the system to give us a reasonable probability of producing an nhl ready one at least every 3-4 years, ideally 1-3.

 

[wafflepadsave]

FYI.

 

[nyr2k2]

Orts looks simultaneously 14 and 40.

 

[bigdog16]

that col stat is insane.

but you're absolutely right, everyone has misses. big picture, the last decade plus our drafting has been very solid.

i think the criticisms come down to 2 things - we haven't found a star/high outperformer statistically. (obviously excluding the 2 most recent drafts)

and our misses have been some ugly ones, especially in that 2-4 round range.

it should be noted though that btw prob 2012 and 2016 we really had minimal draft capital. the boom bust types we took all busted other than buch (will say gropp was such a horrible pick from the moment it was made someone should have been fired - that pick, with what was on the board, is embarrassing - he never had any chance of making it).

while overall, i think our scouts grade out pretty well...i do think its fair to have some critiques. for one - not so much a critique as a thought i'm throwing out - its obvious gordie and co place a high value on character and discipline. virtually every pick seemed like sort of a model teammate/guy coaches loved. i got no issue with valuing that quality, but i feel like thats had a role in the vanilla flavor of this team for forever. outside of jt miller, i can't remember a single guy in recent history that needed to reign it in, either on ice or off ice (sorry forgot kovacs). i'm not sure what the right balance is there, or if thats something others even see validity in, but it seems like we're addressing it to some degree recently w/ schneider, berard, cuylle...hopedfully someone can find k'andres angry button. i think thats a big part of why we have the leagues biggest glut of borderline ahl/nhl players. and secondly, we have not at all prioritized speed / skating. this roster is desperate for some juice to drive the pace and create some chaos on the ice...i know we took that finnish kid a year or 2 ago but it sounds like there's not a ton of hope he makes it. since hagelin / grabner we've had zero in that area and it kills us. the players like to think of themselves as a fast team...and they are overall...but we have to be one of the least explosive teams in the league. that needs to change this summer in the market as a now solution. but longer term i'd much rather see us stockpile at least one kid at some point in the draft that can absolutely fly rather than our annual ogre selection.

The 2015 draft sticks out like a sore thumb because it was the richest and deepest draft in a long long time, and we didnt get a player that has even sniffed it with the Rangers. Out of our 7 picks, 5 of them are overseas, 1 is in the coast, and 1 in the AHL. Thats piss poor

 

[Ranger Ric]

According to Corey Pronman there will be Traverse City tournament this year but it will be smaller and it's not clear the Rangers will participate.

 

[free0717]

We have to draft BCA. No one trades good center prospects

 

[2014nyr]

The 2015 draft sticks out like a sore thumb because it was the richest and deepest draft in a long long time, and we didnt get a player that has even sniffed it with the Rangers. Out of our 7 picks, 5 of them are overseas, 1 is in the coast, and 1 in the AHL. Thats piss poor

funny i'd looked back through the last few just to re-orient with who we'd taken where and when / what else was on the board at those points. and yea i was blown away by 2015, i think it could be in the conversation for the worst draft by 1 team of all time. one of those things thats so bad you can't even be upset about it, just laugh in amazement. but thats also def an outlier in the bigger picture., and kovacs did actually have a chance if he didn't...you know...

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Yeah just saw that the Rangers may not be at Traverse. Whatever can’t even watch the friggin games anyway

 

[Fitzy]

Yeah just saw that the Rangers may not be at Traverse. Whatever can’t even watch the friggin games anyway

The only thing that tournament has really been good at showing us is what guys are completely useless (See- Bereglazov)

 

[egelband]

“Bear Gloves”. Awful nickname.
Worse even than “Names”
Because at least Names could play a little.

 

[bobbop]

Have we heard whether the Rangers will be having a post draft prospects camp this year? I've PMed all of the beat writers and the team but no response.