Post-Game Talk: Rangers @ Flyers 04/07/18 - That’s All Folks

[Embryo]

I'm not feeling too bad. I think we're going to have a fun season next season, and I think a lot of you cynical bastards will be pleasantly surprised when we come out of the gate and are competing and going toe to toe with the best in our division. We'll be well rested, with a lot of youthful energy, while most of our division (except the Devils probably) will still be banged up and recovering, having that playoff hangover. We can capitalize on that early in the season while the team chemistry develops and things could very well play out in our favor.

 

[Embryo]

Get used to not making the playoffs boys, this will be a trend over the next 4-5 years! Fire Gorton! He’s a bum!

You're insane.

 

[aufheben]

You wanna know what moves I'm upset about? Ok.

-McDonagh trade sucked and including Miller only makes it worse. Whether I like Miller or not, he has value.
-Got nothing for Hagelin
-Got nothing for Talbot
-2015 draft is one of the worst by any team since the lockout
-No he's not McIlrath, and yes he's a good prospect, but I hated the Lias pick when it happened and still do.
-Fired AV about 100 years too late
-Reportedly wanted to fire AV in November but didn't because we went on a PDO bender
-Let Eric Staal walk
-Let Yandle walk
-Absolutely refused to bring in forward depth this summer and left us with arguably the worst 4th line in the NHL

He's done plenty of good things, but there's enough here that I think the jury is still out. And everyone expects me to be excited about a future that hasn't even started yet. I'm not excited about an uncertain future. I'm frightened by an uncertain future, and Gorton -while not a terrible GM- has given me enough reason to think it might not turn out so good.

Who is asking you to be excited?

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

We didn't have to pay the price for 2014 and 2015. That could have been a dynasty if we played it right.

It ended the day the ink dried on Girardi and Staal's extensions. It's ruined my confidence in this team's ability to identify their assets even if the rebuild goes as well as it possibly can.

Yes they did, because they don't go as far as they do with out the MSL and Yandle deals.

Girardi over Stralman was clearly the difference between making it to the finals and not in 2015 (though had the defense stayed in one piece, I think they get by Tampa anyway.) I don't think they go into dynasty mode though. Good enough to win 1 yes, but even in their best days they were more of a death by 1,000 cuts team rather than one that just overwhelmed you with star power.

The problem with building a team the way that they built one is that it doesn't usually lend it self to an extended "window" of contending. You're relying mostly on veterans or guys on their 2nd or 3rd deals and your highest paid players are usually very highly paid, allowing little wiggle room to keep the core of your roster in tact for a while.

Chicago is a mess now because of this, but this became an issue after they won 3 cups.

 

[Inferno]

Rebuild shoulda started 2 years ago.

 

[FireGerardGallant]

Machinehead is Sylvester Stallone at the end of First Blood and everyone else here is trying to tell em its over johnny

 

[darko]

Rebuild shoulda started 2 years ago.

Year ago IMO. I can see wanting to rebuild after 2015 ECF but you had to give them another kick at the can. This should be year 2 of the rebuild.

 

[FireGerardGallant]

Rebuild shoulda started 2 years ago.

100% agree shoulda started at the 2016 tdl by trading away Yandle instead of going all in with Staal

 

[Machinehead]

Since the 2005, they actually have been. They’ve just never finished the deal.

They've been better than a lot of NHL teams, yes. There's also a reason they've never finished it.

Everyone talks about elite talent. The Yankees have three guys who have or will win MVP's in their career. Have the Rangers had three MVP's in their 91 year history? Legitimate question. And nevermind that, the 4th-6th best players on the 2018 Yankees would be the best player the Rangers had (besides Lundqvist) over the last ten years. You ever wonder why the Rangers can't find all this talent laying around?

The Giants have a guy who's had literally the best start to a career ever for a receiver. 12th overall pick. Yeah, the Giants have their own baggage, but after all these years, the Rangers can't do that?

That's a different animal, you'll say. So let's talk about hockey. The Flyers get a 100 point player 19th overall. The Lightning get one 58th overall. The Hawks get a Hall of Fame D 54th. The Devils get the likely Hart winner for absolutely nothing. There's countless other examples. It isn't just about top picks. Those teams had top picks and supplemented them. We didn't need a top pick because we drafted our franchise in the 7th round. And nearly 18 years after that selection, we've still failed to ever put a winner around him, or ever put elite talent around him, outside of Jagr deciding to be 25 again.

Maybe the problem isn't draft status. Maybe the problem is this front office can't identify elite talent.

*inb4 "they wanted to draft Keller" and then reached with their actual pick*

 

[Ghost of jas]

How negative some folks are makes me feel better about this rebuild already.

There is no way this thing will be as bad as some are saying it will be.

It's been repeated too many times but for a number of very good reasons this rebuild sets up about as well as one could:

- Good young core remaining along with an aging but still very good (sometimes brilliant) netminder.
- Plenty of assets and options to consider as to who stays and who is dealt to bring back talented younger pieces.
- One deep draft with lots of picks, then another, possibly deeper draft next year.
- A feeder system that still has a ways to go, but is on the rebound with some pretty decent prospects.
- Cap room.

As one of my elders said "it could always be worse", but this ain't a terrible place to start.

In my lifetime as a Ranger fan, I cannot remember being this well-positioned for a rebuild of this nature. The 2004 team was in shambles with nothing on the farm until Henke decided to become a Hall if Famer. If the Rangers knew what they had, there’s no way they draft Montoya. Clark has made some mistakes, but for the most part, his done fine draft-wise. 2004 was an okay draft after the big two, while this draft is considered much deeper. They also didn’t draft for what the game was going to become. That they pulled four NHL players out of that draft, with only two - Dubinsky and Callahan - being players who made an impact with the Rangers is somewhat amazing given the talent they passed on.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Rebuild shoulda started 2 years ago.

This... forever.

From whats been thrown out there it sounds like they almost decided to go that way but for whatever reason pulled back and went for it one last time. Would have been nice had they decided to do that after the Pittsburgh series, We'd be in a better spot right now.

But at least this time they've already started to tear it down headed into this summer instead of trying to do most of the leg work at the draft. We're in for at least one more major player being moved between now and training camp.

 

[Irishguy42]

https://nypost.com/2018/04/07/rangers-coachs-defiant-defense-may-not-be-enough-to-save-job/

Media breakup day is Tuesday. Buckle up.

 

[aufheben]

We left higher ranked players on the board because Lias is competitive and throws medals.

Even if he ends up being a good player it was for all the wrong reasons.

Again with the extremes. Lias was the 3rd ranked Euro, people gotta stop acting like he’s some run of the mill grinder.

 

[Machinehead]

They'll be back in the playoffs in 2 years.

They aren't the Coyotes.

Not sure I see it.

The forward depth is unreal. And if Chytil hits his ceiling I could see this being one of the best forward corps in 2 years, if not the best.

Then there's the defense. Honestly, what playoff defense do you see this team icing in 2 years?

 

[Machinehead]

Again with the extremes. Lias was the 3rd ranked Euro, people gotta stop acting like he’s some run of the mill grinder.

He's not a run of the mill grinder. "Again with the extremes."

He's also not a 7th overall.

 

[FireGerardGallant]

Not sure I see it.

The forward depth is unreal. And if Chytil hits his ceiling I could see this being one of the best forward corps in 2 years, if not the best.

Then there's the defense. Honestly, what playoff defense do you see this team icing in 2 years?

This team traded for 3 defensive prospects at the deadline and theres a fairly decent chance one of our first round picks, if not our top first, is a dman. I dont think anyone is saying this rebuild is done this defense will be built

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Not sure I see it.

The forward depth is unreal. And if Chytil hits his ceiling I could see this being one of the best forward corps in 2 years, if not the best.

Then there's the defense. Honestly, what playoff defense do you see this team icing in 2 years?

You should know as well as anyone how much a defense/roster can change in 2 years.

I think they're set up pretty well down the left side for the future. They'll have their shot to land a cost controlled RH stud in the draft this year.

Then there is the Karlsson factor. If he hits UFA, I'd be shocked if the Rangers don't go full court press on him.

 

[darko]

He's not a run of the mill grinder. "Again with the extremes."

He's also not a 7th overall.

Seen him mocked as high as 9. If you like the guy nothing wrong with taking him at 7.

 

[Machinehead]

This team traded for 3 defensive prospects at the deadline and theres a fairly decent chance one of our first round picks, if not our top first, is a dman. I dont think anyone is saying this rebuild is done this defense will be built

Our first pick this year, if he is a defenseman, isn't in the NHL until 2021-22 unless he's some kind of freak, or Dahlin.

Hajek and Lindgren will be barely hitting the age where most defensemen debut.

This is longer than 2 years.

 

[Ghost of jas]

They've been better than a lot of NHL teams, yes. There's also a reason they've never finished it.

Everyone talks about elite talent. The Yankees have three guys who have or will win MVP's in their career. Have the Rangers had three MVP's in their 91 year history? Legitimate question. And nevermind that, the 4th-6th best players on the 2018 Yankees would be the best player the Rangers had (besides Lundqvist) over the last ten years. You ever wonder why the Rangers can't find all this talent laying around?

The Giants have a guy who's had literally the best start to a career ever for a receiver. 12th overall pick. Yeah, the Giants have their own baggage, but after all these years, the Rangers can't do that?

That's a different animal, you'll say. So let's talk about hockey. The Flyers get a 100 point player 19th overall. The Lightning get one 58th overall. The Hawks get a Hall of Fame D 54th. The Devils get the likely Hart winner for absolutely nothing. There's countless other examples. It isn't just about top picks. Those teams had top picks and supplemented them. We didn't need a top pick because we drafted our franchise in the 7th round. And nearly 18 years after that selection, we've still failed to ever put a winner around him, or ever put elite talent around him, outside of Jagr deciding to be 25 again.

Maybe the problem isn't draft status. Maybe the problem is this front office can't identify elite talent.

*inb4 "they wanted to draft Keller" and then reached with their actual pick*

The Rangers got a #1 Dman for Scott Gomez. They’ve also had some shitty luck. What other franchise had their top prospect who had elite talent drop dead the year before he was supposed to join the team? They also lost Sauer, a superb complement to McDonagh, which meant Girardi ended up having to assume a role he never should have been put in.

 

[Machinehead]

You should know as well as anyone how much a defense/roster can change in 2 years.

I think they're set up pretty well down the left side for the future. They'll have their shot to land a cost controlled RH stud in the draft this year.

Then there is the Karlsson factor. If he hits UFA, I'd be shocked if the Rangers don't go full court press on him.

I disagree on Karlsson. I don't see them blowing it up and then signing a max contract two years later, as much as I would love them to in this case.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

You're insane.

I know I've had my share of negative posts but literally the only posts that the guy you quoted has ever posted from what I've seen were "Gorton is a bum, fire him!" If that's your only contribution to this board maybe you should find another hobby.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I disagree on Karlsson. I don't see them blowing it up and then signing a max contract two years later, as much as I would love them to in this case.

By the time he's a UFA they're going to have 2 full draft classes in the books plus what ever additions they make between now and then.

It may be the perfect time to add a player like him. It may also not, but I'm leaning towards them being closer to competing by then than not.

Again, they aren't the Coyotes (who to their credit, made an effort to compete this year.)

 

[aufheben]

He's not a run of the mill grinder. "Again with the extremes."

He's also not a 7th overall.

I’m not exaggerating, you’ve said multiple times this week that the Rangers dratfted him for intangibles, which implies a lack of skill and/or additional reasons for the pick.

 

[Miamipuck]

They've been better than a lot of NHL teams, yes. There's also a reason they've never finished it.

Everyone talks about elite talent. The Yankees have three guys who have or will win MVP's in their career. Have the Rangers had three MVP's in their 91 year history? Legitimate question. And nevermind that, the 4th-6th best players on the 2018 Yankees would be the best player the Rangers had (besides Lundqvist) over the last ten years. You ever wonder why the Rangers can't find all this talent laying around?

The Giants have a guy who's had literally the best start to a career ever for a receiver. 12th overall pick. Yeah, the Giants have their own baggage, but after all these years, the Rangers can't do that?

That's a different animal, you'll say. So let's talk about hockey. The Flyers get a 100 point player 19th overall. The Lightning get one 58th overall. The Hawks get a Hall of Fame D 54th. The Devils get the likely Hart winner for absolutely nothing. There's countless other examples. It isn't just about top picks. Those teams had top picks and supplemented them. We didn't need a top pick because we drafted our franchise in the 7th round. And nearly 18 years after that selection, we've still failed to ever put a winner around him, or ever put elite talent around him, outside of Jagr deciding to be 25 again.

Maybe the problem isn't draft status. Maybe the problem is this front office can't identify elite talent.

*inb4 "they wanted to draft Keller" and then reached with their actual pick*

I understand you're pissed and I get it and while I laugh I kind of agree with you. That said, the reason the Rangers history sucks and in general they have no historically elite/generational players was the structure of the league for close to 40 years.
1.) The Rangers lost a lot of players to WW2.
2.) There was no entry draft.
3.) There was Provincial/Territorial rights to players. Meaning the Canadians/Leafs etc had the rights to players in their territory.

The deck was literally stacked against the Rangers for 30+ years. Can you imagine how cool it was for Montreal to have the rights to the top 10 Quebec born players every single year for decades? It would be pathetic if they hadn't won 20+cups.