Proposal: Rangers-Ducks (Nash/Fowler)

[eco's bones]

Why would Rangers want Fowler if they already have a better version in McIlrath?

On a serious note, gosh i really don`t want Rick Nash. Most of it has to do with his huge salary and the fact that the Ducks are a budget team. We are looking to unload someone on our blueline due to money reasons and the upcoming expansion draft. If we could afford to pay 8+M to R.Nash then there would be no reason to trade Fowler who will earn 8M on the next 2 years COMBINED. And then resign him for less or around the same 8M.

How Rangers fans see McIlrath and how AV and his coaching staff saw and used McIlrath last year are almost polar opposites. If you were to go over and ask on the Rangers board somewhere around 90% of it will have a very positive and supportive viewpoint on Dylan and his game. He would sit for a while--then play a couple games---then sit for a while again but when he played he usually played very well and the couple longer stretches (due to injuries) he played he was improving game to game. He's an NHL level player.

His main issues a couple years ago were balance and puck movement issues and getting past some serious injuries. Once past those injury issues he made serious steps forward on the other issues. It's called development. The Rangers have worked very hard on that and he's worked very hard with them.

 

[xxreact9]

How Rangers fans see McIlrath and how AV and his coaching staff saw and used McIlrath last year are almost polar opposites. If you were to go over and ask on the Rangers board somewhere around 90% of it will have a very positive and supportive viewpoint on Dylan and his game. He would sit for a while--then play a couple games---then sit for a while again but when he played he usually played very well and the couple longer stretches (due to injuries) he played he was improving game to game. He's an NHL level player.

His main issues a couple years ago were balance and puck movement issues and getting past some serious injuries. Once past those injury issues he made serious steps forward on the other issues. It's called development. The Rangers have worked very hard on that and he's worked very hard with them.

The joke was around the highly questionable decision of drafting him over Fowler. As Fowler dropped from a projected top-3 all the way to 12th, most teams picked forwards and you'd say to yourself well maybe they really don't need a defender. But then NY comes along and makes an absolutely terrible pick given that Fowler was available.

Further humor comes in NYR fans passionately and stubbornly refusing to admit it was a bad decision (some still to this day). I think it's very clear now. One player has accomplished significantly more, and Fowler still has room to improve. His ceiling and floor are both much higher, still.

No more McIlrath talk please. He'd be lucky to hold a spot as a bottom pairing defender for the remainder of his career. Think Luke Schenn.

 

[irishsetter13]

Thanks for the info.

Yes, I know the Duck's core. Very impressive. Inuries do suck though. Rangers had a kid named Michael Sauer a couple of years back, who looked to be a strong 2 way 12-year NHLer, and one big hit after having earlier concussions led him to retire.

Nevertheless, from your writing, Skjei is certainly not a must- but easily slots in at 2 or 3 on your prospect depth chart.

Very similarly, the Rangers had a big guy, Graves, appear out of nowhere as a rookie in the AHL last year. He won hardest shot in the playoff game. Big upside.

I guess, I concede to your point. I just don't care when fans easily dismiss another team's prospects.

Most fan bases get carried away with overrating their own guys to such an extent, it is ludicrous. Then they take it as a personal afront when you offer them a trade that they don't see as a homerun.

I dont think any Ducks fans were trying to dis Skjei but there just isnt a need for him in the organization. If the Ducks had the budget and the need for defensive prospects then a talking point could be started here.

I agree teams over value their own guys. Like the one guy one here who said Skjei was going to be as good as mcdonagh. He might have that potential but thats still a long shot. A good second pairing Dman is more likely. But thats still very valuable. But he only has 7 games of NHL experience. Still not a lock.

And none of the Ducks prospects might not play out. Shea Theodore could get injured, Montour make suck at the NHL level and Larsson is too far away to guarantee anything.

So yeah, Ducks need forwards. Whether is be prospects or current NHLers. And especially cheap ones. Ducks dont really have any room in their budget right now. They have Rakell and Lindholm to sign and Im guessing thats gonna be around 9 mil dollars between the two. So the Ducks are tight. And trading Fowler and Stoner/Bieksa/Despres is needed in order to strength this team on the forward side.

 

[go4hockey]

Rangers dont need a #5 dman.

The player is not a #5 guy and surely would not be if he was on the Rangrrs roster. He is better than all but a defenseman or two on your roster. Maybe you need to watch him play before you come in with silly comments like this one.

 

[TGWL]

How Rangers fans see McIlrath and how AV and his coaching staff saw and used McIlrath last year are almost polar opposites. If you were to go over and ask on the Rangers board somewhere around 90% of it will have a very positive and supportive viewpoint on Dylan and his game. He would sit for a while--then play a couple games---then sit for a while again but when he played he usually played very well and the couple longer stretches (due to injuries) he played he was improving game to game. He's an NHL level player.

His main issues a couple years ago were balance and puck movement issues and getting past some serious injuries. Once past those injury issues he made serious steps forward on the other issues. It's called development. The Rangers have worked very hard on that and he's worked very hard with them.

He was misused. I wouldn't say he's an NHL player just yet. He had moments where he looked good, and moments that make you think he's going to be a #7 his entire career. Hopefully with more playing time he'll settle down into a bottom pairing guy going forward.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Skjei is Yandles replacement.

I sincerely doubt that Skjei has that kind of offensive capability in his game. I think he'll be a solid all-around d-man but not a top point contributor on the blue line. Fowler will be a lot more of a contributor in that manner.

 

[Doriva]

If we're trading Nash it has to be for futures, moving him would just be creating another hole on the current roster rather than loading up for a potentially contending roster a few years down the line.

If we're rolling with this current roster I'd much rather keep the guy who's 7th in the league in goals/60 since he joined the Rangers than pick up a guy who's going to be second pairing on our team. I also really want to see what we have in Skjei.

Can also understand why the ducks want no part of this, I dont think our teams are good trading partners in this case.

 

[eco's bones]

The joke was around the highly questionable decision of drafting him over Fowler. As Fowler dropped from a projected top-3 all the way to 12th, most teams picked forwards and you'd say to yourself well maybe they really don't need a defender. But then NY comes along and makes an absolutely terrible pick given that Fowler was available.

Further humor comes in NYR fans passionately and stubbornly refusing to admit it was a bad decision (some still to this day). I think it's very clear now. One player has accomplished significantly more, and Fowler still has room to improve. His ceiling and floor are both much higher, still.

No more McIlrath talk please. He'd be lucky to hold a spot as a bottom pairing defender for the remainder of his career. Think Luke Schenn.

If the Rangers could do that draft over they wouldn't be taking Fowler. They'd be taking Tarasenko. And the truth is I can't see Fowler thriving in the system that John Tortorella (the Rangers coach at the time) was employing. He wasn't a fit and if you wanted to go back---Torts was giving Michael Del Zotto a hard time for not being good or aggressive enough at playing defense--not willing enough to sacrifice his body for the team. As long as Torts was going to be our coach Fowler wasn't going to be a good fit. And Fowler wasn't going to play for the Rangers as a 19 year old either.

For that matter I don't think Fowler is a good fit for us now either. Skjei is going to fit well.

 

[mytduxfan*]

If the Rangers could do that draft over they wouldn't be taking Fowler. They'd be taking Tarasenko. And the truth is I can't see Fowler thriving in the system that John Tortorella (the Rangers coach at the time) was employing. He wasn't a fit and if you wanted to go back---Torts was giving Michael Del Zotto a hard time for not being good or aggressive enough at playing defense--not willing enough to sacrifice his body for the team. As long as Torts was going to be our coach Fowler wasn't going to be a good fit. And Fowler wasn't going to play for the Rangers as a 19 year old either.

For that matter I don't think Fowler is a good fit for us now either. Skjei is going to fit well.

You think Tarasenko drops to the 10th OA in a re-draft? Tarasenko probably goes 1st OA. 40 goal scorers don't grow on trees.

 

[TGWL]

You think Tarasenko drops to the 10th OA in a re-draft? Tarasenko probably goes 1st OA. 40 goal scorers don't grow on trees.

That's not even close to what he meant.

 

[mytduxfan*]

That's not even close to what he meant.

I don't follow. Saying "we'd draft Tarasenko in a re-draft" = "I think Tarasenoko would be available at 10 OA in a re-draft", no?

 

[Static]

Feel free, your unwarranted critique of me makes YOU look foolish.
Then we can all have a good laugh.

Kreider and Skjei are superior skaters.
I said that factually true statement
Would take heavy overpayment for NY to move.
And this is in error because?....

Considering your history of extreme homerism I'd say the critique is fairly warranted here.

 

[Spazkat]

If the Rangers could do that draft over they wouldn't be taking Fowler. They'd be taking Tarasenko.

This is probably why I've never been the biggest Fowler fan although this seems to be sacrilege among most Ducks fans... every time I see him all I see is "we could have had Tarasenko" .

 

[mytduxfan*]

This is probably why I've never been the biggest Fowler fan although this seems to be sacrilege among most Ducks fans... every time I see him all I see is "we could have had Tarasenko" .

That's a totally ridiculous way to feel about draftees. You're basically blaming Fowler for Tarasenko being a hidden gem. Fowler was drafted 12th and would easily go top 10 in a re-draft. He's done incredibly well. He just wasn't the savior some Duck fans were thinking. However, that was a title he didn't ask for in the first place.

 

[eco's bones]

You think Tarasenko drops to the 10th OA in a re-draft? Tarasenko probably goes 1st OA. 40 goal scorers don't grow on trees.

If that's the way you want it--?----if we're doing a re-draft of 2010 Fowler's not in the my top 10.

1. Seguin
2. Tarasenko
3. Kuznetsov
4. Klingberg
5. Hall
6. Johansen
7. Faulk
8. Gallagher
9. Schwartz
10. Stone
11. Toffoli

.....or something like that. All players I'd prefer to him. Since the Rangers picked 10th--well? he wouldn't make it. Skinner without his headache problems would be over him as well. Fowler would get thrown in with Coyle, Skinner, Gudbranson, Hayes, Bjugstad, Nelson and Neiderreiter and maybe a couple others.

Anyway when I mentioned Tarasenko--that's the guy I think we really missed on--not Cam Fowler.

 

[mytduxfan*]

If that's the way you want it--?----if we're doing a re-draft of 2010 Fowler's not in the my top 10.

1. Seguin
2. Tarasenko
3. Kuznetsov
4. Klingberg
5. Hall
6. Johansen
7. Faulk
8. Gallagher
9. Schwartz
10. Stone
11. Toffoli

.....or something like that. All players I'd prefer to him. Since the Rangers picked 10th--well? he wouldn't make it. Skinner without his headache problems would be over him as well. Fowler would get thrown in with Coyle, Skinner, Gudbranson, Hayes, Bjugstad, Nelson and Neiderreiter and maybe a couple others.

Anyway when I mentioned Tarasenko--that's the guy I think we really missed on--not Cam Fowler.

Fine. I'd have Fowler above some of those guys. For a start, Brenden Gallagher is an undersized 2nd line winger. Top pairing D-man gets taken ahead of him. Anyway, your list is too focused on just scoring for my liking. I mean, Klingberg above Faulk? Yeessshh! And you clearly don't value Fowler as the top pairing D-man he is if you're bunging him in with the likes of Gudbranson.

As far as the bold, "yeah you and everyone above you". Hence, it was pointless statement to make. I don't think anyone has even suggested that the NYR should have picked Fowler out of everyone left in the draft. The point being made is that those who said McIlrath was going to be better the Fowler i.e. most of the NYR collective, are eating some pretty salty crow right now.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

Rangers dont need a #5 dman.

interesting, fowler has been ducks first or 2nd best dman for 3 years, but now he's going to go to new York and be their no.5? lol get real

 

[KaseMeOutside]

Ok so the next time any player on Anaheim has a bad season, we'll judge that player based solely on that season.

By that logic, I guess Getzlaf, Perry and Kesler are extremely overpaid then.

when the hell was kesler's bad season? it sure as hell hasn't happened with the ducks

 

[gorangers0525]

Fine. I'd have Fowler above some of those guys. For a start, Brenden Gallagher is an undersized 2nd line winger. Top pairing D-man gets taken ahead of him. Anyway, your list is too focused on just scoring for my liking. I mean, Klingberg above Faulk? Yeessshh! And you clearly don't value Fowler as the top pairing D-man he is if you're bunging him in with the likes of Gudbranson.

As far as the bold, "yeah you and everyone above you". Hence, it was pointless statement to make. I don't think anyone has even suggested that the NYR should have picked Fowler out of everyone left in the draft. The point being made is that those who said McIlrath was going to be better the Fowler i.e. most of the NYR collective, are eating some pretty salty crow right now.

Last sentence is so ridiculously far from the truth it's incredible. Rangers fans went nuts when that pick was made, and even those who aren't a fan of Fowler mostly believe he is, and always will be, better than Mcilrath. However, it's not like the Rangers missed a real gem, Fowler's an okay defenseman that is put in situations he can't handle. I think most could live with the Rangers not picking Fowler, even if he was the better choice. However, there were many other names that would have been better as well.

 

[One Winged Angel]

NYR fans do it all the time , heck most fans do it . It not only the fact he had a bad season it also his cap hit just don't fit with the Ducks internal budget

With who? Who exactly do we do it With?

Provide some posts, please.

 

[One Winged Angel]

when the hell was kesler's bad season? it sure as hell hasn't happened with the ducks

Kesler is paid like this is 2010 and 2011 but hasn't come close to those numbers since.

At least Nash has put up numbers worth his salary recently.

 

[mytduxfan*]

Kesler is paid like this is 2010 and 2011 but hasn't come close to those numbers since.

At least Nash has put up numbers worth his salary recently.

Hockey isn't just about "putting up numbers". Kesler excels in a number of areas that Nash doesn't. Nash is a pure goal scorer, so it's no surprise that he's better then Kesler at scoring goals. When Nash stops scoring goals, he'll be completely useless. Meanwhile, Kesler continues to contribute in other areas.

If Kesler was putting up 2010 numbers every year, whilst being the elite defensive talent he is, he'd probably be the best player in the league right now and worth 12M. However, he's not doing that. Instead, he's producing ~20 goals and ~50pts a year, whilst shutting down the oppositions top lines. He's arguably one of the best 2Cs in the game right now and he gets paid like it. His contract is fine and Kesler is more then worth his it right now, it's the term that's the problem.

 

[bernmeister]

Considering your history of extreme homerism I'd say the critique is fairly warranted here.

this reply rejected as non responsive to the ? and being your subjective opinion, not fact.

I repeat

Kreider and Skjei are superior skaters.
I said that factually true statement
Would take heavy overpayment for NY to move.
And this is in error because?....

show why this is not factually true.
Otherwise I was right and you were..... not!

 

[Raspewtin]

Literally want nothing to do with Fowler so no.

Hockey isn't just about "putting up numbers". Kesler excels in a number of areas that Nash doesn't. Nash is a pure goal scorer, so it's no surprise that he's better then Kesler at scoring goals. When Nash stops scoring goals, he'll be completely useless. Meanwhile, Kesler continues to contribute in other areas.

Nash is better defensively than Kesler so wtf are you on about?

 

[mytduxfan*]

Literally want nothing to do with Fowler so no.

Nash is better defensively than Kesler so wtf are you on about?

Yes, Nash is better defensively then a top 3 Selke award nominee.

This is getting ridiculous. If Nash can score 40 goals, is better than Kesler defensively and isn't a playoff no-show, then he's more then worth his 8M+ contract and you should keep him. This thread is officially a ****ing joke.