Post-Game Talk: Rangers @ devils -- 4/18/21

[CLW]

I think it can’t always be a situation where we find a reason not to play them.

Buch, Strome, Kreider, freakin Blackwell for 19 mins.

We can’t do it when they don’t score. We can’t do it when they do. We can’t do it in tight games. We can’t do it in blowouts.

I see a scenario where management is going to have to force the issue and remove the safety nets next season.

My impression is that management is on record saying they want more ice time for the kids this season. Instead we get this.

What would "force the issue" and "remove the safety nets" look like in practice?

 

[egelband]

Are you asking for insider knowledge that the organization is purposely ruining prospects? Or that Lafreniere is planning to defect? What are their agents going to do?

Also am I f***ing crazy or did Kakko, Lafreniere, Chytil, Kravtsov, and Fox not all come away with points today?

They got points right before Quinn pressed the TRAP DOOR button. Pshaw.

 

[egelband]

@Edge is this the plan? Because Quinn is ruining these kids.

Thankfully the FO has a bit more patience.

 

[duhmetreE]

My impression is that management is on record saying they want more ice time for the kids this season. Instead we get this.

What would "force the issue" and "remove the safety nets" look like in practice?

Play them more than 8 minutes regardless of outcome.

Allow them to fail essentially. Which is great, I do not understand the fear of failure... It's the only way to learn, grow and mature. If you keep making the same mistakes, then it's an issue.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

My impression is that management is on record saying they want more ice time for the kids this season. Instead we get this.

What would "force the issue" and "remove the safety nets" look like in practice?

To be fair, they have gotten more ice time lately. Maybe not enough (and that comes down to special teams, which is part of the discussion but the first unit eats most of the time anyway) but there has been some effort to balance the TOI gap between the top lines and the 3rd line. Whether thats a Quinn thing, a mandate from the FO or a combo of both I have no idea, but there has been a bit more balance there, even if it wasn't there today (Quinn DID pretty much stop playing Tony B and Smith as well, Fox had 27+ minutes so its not like he just victimized the Kid line.)

He does need to drop the ride or die act with certain players though. The Zibanejad line has been festering ass for a while and it seems like every time they've scored at 5v5 lately, a certain #20 hasn't been on the ice (he has 1 point at ES over the last month, along with the rest of his game going to hell). It's not just a happy coincidence.

 

[CLW]

Play them more than 8 minutes regardless of outcome.

Allow them to fail essentially. Which is great, I do not understand the fear of failure... It's the only way to learn, grow and mature. If you keep making the same mistakes, then it's an issue.

No. I mean there is a disconnect between the hc and management here. What measures would management take to "force the issue"?

 

[Chytilmania]

Ryan Strome scoring a goal without shooting the puck >>>

What's that his 8th time he's missed a wide open net this year?

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

No. I mean there is a disconnect between the hc and management here. What measures would management take to "force the issue"?

Careful, you're going really upset a few people here by suggesting this.

I think they've at least broached the topic which is why you aren't really seeing these 8-9 min TOI games as often as we did before. It happened today and it probably wasn't fair (yeah they were on ice for goals 2 and 3 against, but goal 2 was really all Tony B) but it hasn't been the norm.

Their usage hasn't been ideal, but if we're going to complain about player usage, there is a bigger fish to... Krei...

 

[Synergy27]

I think it can’t always be a situation where we find a reason not to play them.

Buch, Strome, Kreider, freakin Blackwell for 19 mins.

We can’t do it when they don’t score. We can’t do it when they do. We can’t do it in tight games. We can’t do it in blowouts.

I see a scenario where management is going to have to force the issue and remove the safety nets next season.

Good god we have Edge on our side. Will be really interesting to see if the usual suspects have the balls to call you idiotic/imbecilic/etc. for daring to question the coaching.

 

[CLW]

To be fair, they have gotten more ice time lately. Maybe not enough (and that comes down to special teams, which is part of the discussion but the first unit eats most of the time anyway) but there has been some effort to balance the TOI gap between the top lines and the 3rd line. Whether thats a Quinn thing, a mandate from the FO or a combo of both I have no idea, but there has been a bit more balance there, even if it wasn't there today (Quinn DID pretty much stop playing Tony B and Smith as well, Fox had 27+ minutes so its not like he just victimized the Kid line.)

He does need to drop the ride or die act with certain players though. The Zibanejad line has been festering ass for a while and it seems like every time they've scored at 5v5 lately, a certain #20 hasn't been on the ice (he has 1 point at ES over the last month, along with the rest of his game going to hell). It's not just a happy coincidence.

I thought Kakko had about 14 min toi (which is low) before getting put on the kid line (short bus line). Now it seems to have dropped to 11-12 or some such. The point is the kid line was created to stuff the problems into one line so its easier to sit them in favor of the vets riding in the big bus with the cool coach.

 

[haveandare]

I thought Kakko had about 14 min toi (which is low) before getting put on the kid line (short bus line). Now it seems to have dropped to 11-12 or some such. The point is the kid line was created to stuff the problems into one line so its easier to sit them in favor of the vets riding in the big bus with the cool coach.

Or the point was to set the lines up so the team had the best chance to win and try to make the playoffs, in which case it’s worked pretty damn well

 

[CasusBelli]

Hughes is a complete brat. Spoiled, entitled, whiny.

I liked him as a player until this game. Now my disdain for him personally just outweighs that admiration.

 

[jay from jersey]

My impression is that management is on record saying they want more ice time for the kids this season. Instead we get this.

What would "force the issue" and "remove the safety nets" look like in practice?

He means management will have to trade some of these players so they can’t be so heavily relied upon. It’s good having a healthy mix of vets with the kids to help them grow, help them be pros but sometimes the most comfortable thing for the coach means relying heavy on the vets and guys like Blackwell and Rooney are having career years here, they are also getting more ice time here then they were prior. I think next year, with a proper camp and another year of growth from LaF, kakko, Chytil, Miller, Fox, etc. you will see a little more balance throughout the line up. A kid Line could be Barron centering a 3rd or 4th line. But ultimately our high end youth is going to need to play. They need to play a lot and in all situations to get better and take that next step

 

[Absolut]

Yup. Reminds me of Crosby

One outburst doesn't warrant a comparison to Crosby. Sid is a massive d*ck. I don't see Jack diving all over the place and constantly getting into the refs faces. He generally seems like a respectful kid. I'd give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

[DelZottoHitTheNetJK]

Any coach in the NHL is going to ice the team and divvy up minutes as they see fit to win the game. Whether the organizational strategy is to develop or not.

Because the fact of the matter is that the NHL is not a developmental league. In order to play and stay here, you have to contribute whether youre a 1OA pick in his rookie season or Kreider. And as it currently stands, all the guys that Quinn is playing more than the kids are better players than said kids. Will it be like that forever? Definitely not. The ceiling of these kids is tremendous. To my eye test, the only player I saw that should be stapled to the top 6 is Kravtsov. Kid looks extremely NHL ready; causing turnovers, making plays with the puck, being responsible defensively. Half the time Kakko or Laf touch the puck, the play dies because they get visibly nervous when pressure is applied and it just becomes a grenade on their stick. Kravstov looks almost like a left hand shot version of Panarin right now. If he can bulk up and improve his game along the wall? Watch out.

All that being said, I did have a moment during the game when we had a PP up 3-0 upon the initial o-zone draw. I was pretty pissed to see the top unit back out there, yet again, for an o-zone draw on the powerplay when the game was (seemingly) over.

Aaaand then we blew the 3 goal lead and I realized a professional NHL coaching staff knows more about hockey than I do; they were obviously trying to get the 4th to put the game away because with this team, no lead is safe apparently

 

[Absolut]

AKravstov looks almost like a left hand shot version of Panarin right now. If he can bulk up and improve his game along the wall? Watch out.

He definitely needs to get bigger. I don't know if he can get meaner, he seems too chill. But I'll take a left hand 6'3 version of Panarin, no problem. I am shocked at how good Kravtsov has looked, really didn't expect much from him. Seemed like a bad way to start an NHL career and I thought it was going to be the Lias Andersson situation 2.0.

 

[DelZottoHitTheNetJK]

He definitely needs to get bigger. I don't know if he can get meaner, he seems too chill. But I'll take a left hand 6'3 version of Panarin, no problem. I am shocked at how good Kravtsov has looked, really didn't expect much from him. Seemed like a bad way to start an NHL career and I thought it was going to be the Lias Andersson situation 2.0.

He's done a complete 180. His 200 foot game is miles better than what I saw last year and even in the few KHL games I watched. He looks scary good already and I would not be surprised at all to see him put up 50 points over an 82 game season as early as next year.

Would like to see him get a look on the powerplay, I admittedly have no idea how his game translates to the PP (shooter? net front guy? bumper?)

 

[CLW]

He means management will have to trade some of these players so they can’t be so heavily relied upon. It’s good having a healthy mix of vets with the kids to help them grow, help them be pros but sometimes the most comfortable thing for the coach means relying heavy on the vets and guys like Blackwell and Rooney are having career years here, they are also getting more ice time here then they were prior. I think next year, with a proper camp and another year of growth from LaF, kakko, Chytil, Miller, Fox, etc. you will see a little more balance throughout the line up. A kid Line could be Barron centering a 3rd or 4th line. But ultimately our high end youth is going to need to play. They need to play a lot and in all situations to get better and take that next step

I wonder how much stat pumping is going on for our 'trade bait to be' players (like the Jets did with Trouba).

Panarin and Trouba were, partly, signed to be vets sheltering the youngsters. What we are seeing now is not sheltering though.

 

[jay from jersey]

I wonder how much stat pumping is going on for our 'trade bait to be' players (like the Jets did with Trouba).

Panarin and Trouba were, partly, signed to be vets sheltering the youngsters. What we are seeing now is not sheltering though.

I don’t know. I have a different opinion on Trouba then many. Miller is still a plus player playing top 4 minutes with no AHL seasoning. Even after hitting the rookie wall a bit, that pair is still logging a lot of ice time. I think this is one of those cases where miller absolutely depends on Trouba and Jake has made him a better player. I think the type of game Miller plays has also helped trouba. But I don’t think K’Andre is at this point in his development with out Jake on his right. Trouba gets a lot of shit due to making 8 million. He’s not going to put up 50 with no PP time. He’s going to put up 30-35 pts playing solid D and mentoring one of our best prospects. All in all we could have done a lot worse

 

[gravey9]

While I'm happy that the team won all 4 games. And I was really happy to see VK and Laf get on the board today -- I am more than a little worried that the team really only played maybe 4-5 periods of really solid hockey in the 4 games. The teams coming up, outside Philly and Buf, all play a much more structured, hard-nosed, smart style of hockey. And on top of that, Buffalo is finally playing as a team and have looked pretty darn good even in their loss the other night. We needed to use these games not only for points but to sharpen our game, dot our i's, cross our t's. If anything, I thought we've looked pretty darn sloppy and have over-relied on a handful of vets to carry the team. Against these better squads, when they essentially neutralize our best players for long stretches, will the team play detailed oriented enough to push through? I wished we showed a lot more in these games. I blame the coaches for not finding a way to get the players to buy into being crisp and mentally sharp and hungry on a consistent basis. You could blame it on youth, but I'm seeing the sloppiness during the game across the board. Even the guys who are carrying us have played too loose and sloppy.

 

[egelband]

I don’t know. I have a different opinion on Trouba then many. Miller is still a plus player playing top 4 minutes with no AHL seasoning. Even after hitting the rookie wall a bit, that pair is still logging a lot of ice time. I think this is one of those cases where miller absolutely depends on Trouba and Jake has made him a better player. I think the type of game Miller plays has also helped trouba. But I don’t think K’Andre is at this point in his development with out Jake on his right. Trouba gets a lot of shit due to making 8 million. He’s not going to put up 50 with no PP time. He’s going to put up 30-35 pts playing solid D and mentoring one of our best prospects. All in all we could have done a lot worse

Totally. Miller is a talented and precocious young player. But Trouba has been a terrific security blanket too. In fact, I think the pressure to keep an eye on Miller has made Trouba a better player. He’s focusing on defense and not trying to be a scorer, at all. Which is perfect. Win-win.

 

[NYRangers16]

Are you asking for insider knowledge that the organization is purposely ruining prospects? Or that Lafreniere is planning to defect? What are their agents going to do?

Also am I f***ing crazy or did Kakko, Lafreniere, Chytil, Kravtsov, and Fox not all come away with points today?

Yes to A. Yes to B. I’m starting to believe the kids are saying FU to Quinn.

 

[kovazub94]

You’re not alone.

I don’t know what other people are seeing.

They see everything through their internal misery lenses.

The Rangers just made NHL history by sweeping the same opponent in 4 straight games in a regular season. This is not a small feat but gets forgotten because literally “kids got one less minute of ice time”.

 

[wolfgaze]

 

[ohbaby]

Is it either/or?

Imo they can pursue the playoff hopes (such as they are) and also play the kids more (and the slugs less) at the same time.

The kids don't hurt our chances The kids are alright.

The kids are great. But they are no Panarin or Zibad, or Strome for that matter. Or Buchnevich, so where do you want to play them? There's a hierarchy in life and in sports. You upset that and what you have is chaos. There is a system in place, an organization that some fans here don't understand. A pecking order, ranking, ladder,... that's implemented by all NHL teams. Or for that matter any sports team. They do this, to insure the best players play to give them the best chance to win. Because winning is all that matters. That why we drafted these youngsters, gave millions to Trouba and Panarin, resigned Kreider. And why top players get top minutes. It's all to improve the team's ability to win games. And this team has improved this year,... and is winning with more regularity as the season winds down. We have won 8 of our last 11, but all I hear about is how this team, its players, are being mismanaged. It's just the silliest, petty grievance I ever heard.

There are fans here calling for Quinn's head on a stick. Like winning 8 out of 11 is a mortal sin or something. It's just laughable.