Post-Game Talk: Rangers @ Capitals 7pm

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maacoshark

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Which he has done to the point of suspension previously. Over-engagement to the point of lack of discipline has been pretty costly under Trotz. Frustration due to max effort not paying off as immediately as they'd like has been another problem. Trying to do too much and getting on the wrong side of the puck have been other signs of that lack of balance. They need to be wary of the balance of intensity, structure/discipline, urgency and patience. Maybe a different cast, some younger and improving, changes things. We'll see but I don't tend to think just doing what they've done the past few seasons is enough. They need buy-in and confidence but also the mental toughness, openness and commitment to not just think they've figured it all out due to regular season outcomes.

Trotz needs to crack the whip and get on them that the only way killer instinct is forged is to be unsparing and accountable beyond end results. Or else it's likely to be too one-dimensional...just keep them to the outside, stay disciplined and see if they stray. And they have. A big part of it is focusing more and more on the dirty areas at both ends. Making it more of a priority to be an increasingly interior attacking team will be important if secondary scoring isn't to dry up again. That way they're not just focused on letting their skill come to the forefront thanks to defensive structure and feel/engagement but applying it at times in a manner more likely to translate in the playoffs. It's a fine line between straying from what comes natural and expanding their game but they need to better cash in on their confidence to develop an increasingly scrappy style while retaining what already do well naturally. I'm not sure Trotz has that level of vision or that the style of the personnel is ideally suited to just do it themselves. Top Line Tom may offer some much-needed grease but I'm still not sure about the rest. It's a decent strength in Vrana's game and arguably what separates him from Burakovsky IMO in being a better scoring-line fit for the top six. And, of course, a similar scrappiness needs to become part of the games of Bowey and Djoos. I don't expect much from Djoos in that area but stick/body position is a key part of doing it in a more finesse manner.

I guess I'm mainly not sure they're grooving the right things mentally. The track record suggests not but maybe that's too extreme. They've been close but they need to avoid getting too complacent. Complacency within their typical buy-in has been the main underlying issue IMO. Better luck could help but focusing on becoming increasingly intelligent and situationally adept is the sort of groundedness they need. That way their applied effort has more depth.
Looks like we are all sports psychologists here.
 

AlexBrovechkin8

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So...when does the president of the Tom Wilson fanboy club finally get to gloat a little bit? Lol

time to break out the old "TW punching a Schenn" avatar

If you're the president then I'm certainly the VP, or at least a cabinet member. I've always thought the Wilson hate was very RMNB and overblown and that he needed some actual coaching and development to unlock his potential to be a bonafide hockey player. I don't think I've ever seen a player put into a worse developmental situation than what Oates and McFail did to No Skilly Willy.
 

AlexBrovechkin8

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Worse developmental situation? Still not buying it.

Find me another scenario where a first round rick was rushed into the NHL at 19 by a panic-stricken GM who made one of the worst trades in NHL history trying to save his job and a bumbling idiot for a coach whose marching orders were to punch faces and play < 7 min/game for his first few years with plugs and fringe NHLers.
 

txpd

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Find me another scenario where a first round rick was rushed into the NHL at 19 by a panic-stricken GM who made one of the worst trades in NHL history trying to save his job and a bumbling idiot for a coach whose marching orders were to punch faces and play < 7 min/game for his first few years with plugs and fringe NHLers.

I certainly don't see it that way. He was an NHL or OHL player his rookie season. Oates messed Ovechkin and Carlson and Holtby up terribly. The less Wilson played during that time maybe for the better.

I am fairly confident that things happen for a reason. Trotz mentioned it in his post game presser last night. Wilson is earning a leadership position on this team. His development curve has earned him a level of respect in the locker room that's hard to come by. He is a first round pick that has played a 4th line game. He has learned his defense and penalty killing like a good 3rd line player. He has earned his blue collar stripes. Now he is earning respect as a producer in a white collar role. All the while as a young guy, he has been the guy that stands up for them all year in and year out.

He is 23 years old. If he played that first season in junior and the next two in the AHL learning to be top line Willy, this would be just his 2nd NHL season. I am not sure the Caps are better off in that scenario.
 

CapitalsCupReality

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Find me another scenario where a first round rick was rushed into the NHL at 19 by a panic-stricken GM who made one of the worst trades in NHL history trying to save his job and a bumbling idiot for a coach whose marching orders were to punch faces and play < 7 min/game for his first few years with plugs and fringe NHLers.

I love the dramatic stuff you add to make the scenario made for tv movie material lol....you should write for Harlequin lol...;)

Plenty of 19 yr old physically mature NHL’ers have made their teams and have varied development timelines, but still successful NHL careers. He made the team! Why do you guys hold that against him? I don’t get it. He wasn’t rushed/gifted his spot in camp as I recall it.

Wilson is 23. He’s proving lately he was worthy of a 1st round selection thankfully. His development option was to go back to Jr’s and get run all season fighting nobodies looking to make a name against a 1st rounder or the NHL. His role was that his entire career since Jr’s wasn’t it? His skating initially wasn’t good enough to be successful in the top-6, it’s improved greatly and it’s showing this year more than ever. I see a young budget Rick Tocchet developing (if his shot can show the same improvement as other parts of his game). My opinion has always been his development wasn’t as bungled as some posters assumed and he was never ruined like a lot of posters here have said too many times to count.
 

maacoshark

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I certainly don't see it that way. He was an NHL or OHL player his rookie season. Oates messed Ovechkin and Carlson and Holtby up terribly. The less Wilson played during that time maybe for the better.

I am fairly confident that things happen for a reason. Trotz mentioned it in his post game presser last night. Wilson is earning a leadership position on this team. His development curve has earned him a level of respect in the locker room that's hard to come by. He is a first round pick that has played a 4th line game. He has learned his defense and penalty killing like a good 3rd line player. He has earned his blue collar stripes. Now he is earning respect as a producer in a white collar role. All the while as a young guy, he has been the guy that stands up for them all year in and year out.

He is 23 years old. If he played that first season in junior and the next two in the AHL learning to be top line Willy, this would be just his 2nd NHL season. I am not sure the Caps are better off in that scenario.
I thought Wilson should have been sent back to the OHL in his rookie season. I did think they brought him up too early. BTW he wasn't kept here to be a goon. He was here because he could hit. He was the best bodychecker in juniors when he played. I have no problem with where the Caps selected him. We needed a physical presence.
 

CapitalsCupReality

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He’s never played like a goon in the NHL IMO. He’s always showed more than goonery. He sticks up for everyone, but early on it was his hitting that made him a game changer. Once his skating improved he’s been able to take on more responsibility and he’s flourishing.

Dude made the roster.
 

AlexBrovechkin8

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I love the dramatic stuff you add to make the scenario made for tv movie material lol....you should write for Harlequin lol...;)

Plenty of 19 yr old physically mature NHL’ers have made their teams and have varied development timelines, but still successful NHL careers. He made the team! Why do you guys hold that against him? I don’t get it. He wasn’t rushed/gifted his spot in camp as I recall it.

Wilson is 23. He’s proving lately he was worthy of a 1st round selection thankfully. His development option was to go back to Jr’s and get run all season fighting nobodies looking to make a name against a 1st rounder or the NHL. His role was that his entire career since Jr’s wasn’t it? His skating initially wasn’t good enough to be successful in the top-6, it’s improved greatly and it’s showing this year more than ever. I see a young budget Rick Tocchet developing (if his shot can show the same improvement as other parts of his game). My opinion has always been his development wasn’t as bungled as some posters assumed and he was never ruined like a lot of posters here have said too many times to count.

You recall incorrectly. George forced him in the lineup to justify the Erat trade in large part because of such terrible backlash. He traded Matty P for a bag of pucks in order to make it happen. And none of what I said was dramatic... it was all true. Which part do you disagree with?
 

CapitalsCupReality

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He made the team and they traded the surplus. Which part do you disagree with?

Pettinger was barely in the NHL after that....I’d say great trade, except it was Cooke coming back. Still, they traded a declining asset for a better return. Hardly the McPhee shoehorn move you’re suggesting, as if Wilson didn’t earn his spot in camp. Pettinger was traded at the deadline anyways...
 
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twabby

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Matty P = Perreault, not Pettinger.

The Pettinger trade was way before the Perreault trade.
 

maacoshark

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He’s never played like a goon in the NHL IMO. He’s always showed more than goonery. He sticks up for everyone, but early on it was his hitting that made him a game changer. Once his skating improved he’s been able to take on more responsibility and he’s flourishing.

Dude made the roster.
Agreed. I don't consider him a goon. He is just a physical player and great hitter. A goon is just a fighter. Not many goons left in the NHL.
 

AlexBrovechkin8

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He made the team and they traded the surplus. Which part do you disagree with?

Pettinger was barely in the NHL after that....I’d say great trade, except it was Cooke coming back. Still, they traded a declining asset for a better return. Hardly the McPhee shoehorn move you’re suggesting, as if Wilson didn’t earn his spot in camp. Pettinger was traded at the deadline anyways...

I disagree with the premise that Wilson earned a spot over the team based on merit, and I find it hard to believe that you believe he did either. Perreault was not far removed from playing 1C for 40 games while Backstrom had a concussion and was a very useful player, and you don't trade a guy like Matty P for no return for someone to play 7 minutes per night on the 4th line because the other guy earned that spot on merit alone. If you think Wilson made the team over him based on merit and not on politics then there's no point in continuing this dialogue.
 

CapitalsCupReality

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Matty P = Perreault, not Pettinger.

The Pettinger trade was way before the Perreault trade.

Ohhhhh right.....duh....sure, I wish we had gotten a little more for Perrault....loved him since draft day, but his time here was done. He had no place here at his price tag the next year if I remember.
 
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CapitalsCupReality

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I disagree with the premise that Wilson earned a spot over the team based on merit, and I find it hard to believe that you believe he did either. Perreault was not far removed from playing 1C for 40 games while Backstrom had a concussion and was a very useful player, and you don't trade a guy like Matty P for no return for someone to play 7 minutes per night on the 4th line because the other guy earned that spot on merit alone. If you think Wilson made the team over him based on merit and not on politics then there's no point in continuing this dialogue.

Wilson had a good camp....Regardless of what MP had done in the past in some decent filler duty, he was always a tweener and he wouldn’t have lasted another season here IMO Wilson or no. I do love your conspiracy theory that somehow McPhee bringing up a “7 min a night guy for punching faces” as a job saving move. That doesn’t scream please save my job as far as masterful GM moves....lol.

Lemme just sum up by saying, I thought his development issues were overblown then and still believe so today. He’s a little bit of a late bloomer is all.
 
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AlexBrovechkin8

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Wilson had a good camp....Regardless of what MP had done in the past in some decent filler duty, he was always a tweener and he wouldn’t have lasted another season here IMO Wilson or no. I do love your conspiracy theory that somehow McPhee bringing up a “7 min a night guy for punching faces” as a job saving move. That doesn’t scream please save my job as far as masterful GM moves....lol.

Lemme just sum up by saying, I thought his development issues were overblown then and still believe so today. He’s a little bit of a late bloomer is all.

I recall the reports out of camp being that Wilson physically looked like a man among boys but had a pretty steep hill to climb in terms of understanding how to play at this level. Whatever, irrelevant at this point. And I agree, I think expectations for Big Tom were unrealistic... but a big reason for that was because of the Forsberg trade and Forsberg's performance. I don't think it's a conspiracy theory; it's undeniably George. He made a move he thought was shrewd and it blew up in his face and he was widely mocked. His hubris is going to want to show people they're wrong and that he traded the right guy. Seems pretty logical to me.
 

ovikovy817

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Forgot to mention that the other day.



Look at the celly by the 5 guys on ice. Must be a new celebration elaborated in the locker room :laugh:
 
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