Random question --- Powerplay Opportunities

Brick81

Registered User
May 12, 2010
95
0
Newmarket, Ont
Just wondering, is it the style we play that leads us to have the fewest Power Play Opportunities in the NHL???? The type of players??? Every year I check and every year it seems that we are in the bottom 3-5. I can't remember the last I've checked and even saw us in the middle of the pack (actually did some checking and it was 2006/2007).

Just curious as to peoples thoughts...

Thanks
 

jgatie

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Sep 22, 2011
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Just wondering, is it the style we play that leads us to have the fewest Power Play Opportunities in the NHL???? The type of players??? Every year I check and every year it seems that we are in the bottom 3-5. I can't remember the last I've checked and even saw us in the middle of the pack (actually did some checking and it was 2006/2007).

Just curious as to peoples thoughts...

Thanks

This has been discussed ad infinitum, and it always boils down to the "We don't dive" vs. the "We are slow, so we don't get hooked/tripped/etc." camps, with some tin foil hatters and Daddy Campbell trolls thrown in.

Rinse. Lather. Repeat.
 

b in vancouver

Registered User
Jul 28, 2005
7,847
5,702
Just wondering, is it the style we play that leads us to have the fewest Power Play Opportunities in the NHL???? The type of players??? Every year I check and every year it seems that we are in the bottom 3-5. I can't remember the last I've checked and even saw us in the middle of the pack (actually did some checking and it was 2006/2007).

Just curious as to peoples thoughts...

Thanks

I've been ranting about this a lot lately.

I don't think it's a speed issue as I rarely see the correlation in the actual pp standings - Arizona isn't blazing fast and leads the league.
They've been such a good team and more often than not leading so the other teams been chasing so should take more penalties.
The no diving might be part of it. Of there top forwards, outside of Marchand, never really see Bergeron, Krejci, Eriksson, lucic, Horton, Iginla, Seguin, go down easy.
Chara goes down easy every once in awhile which I don't blame him for, as players are allowed to take runs at him, leave their feet, in the numbers, etc. - but the refs reaction is 'he can take it.'

Mostly I think Bruins games are reffed a bit differently since they brought the old school toughness back. The Bruins wanted to play a heavy game and the refs kind of allowed them, but it became a bit of a big brother picking on the little brother idea. Big brother gets in trouble if he gives the little one a noogy, but the little brother can bite and kick and is encouraged to fight back.

Either that - or every team plays its cleanest games of the year against Boston.
 

ap3lovr

Registered User
Dec 31, 2005
6,219
1,291
New Brunswick
This has been discussed ad infinitum, and it always boils down to the "We don't dive" vs. the "We are slow, so we don't get hooked/tripped/etc." camps, with some tin foil hatters and Daddy Campbell trolls thrown in.

Rinse. Lather. Repeat.

There was a really great statistical analysis that was done by a poster here before that showed that Claude Julien teams historically have low powerplay opportunities. It`s the style of play that leads to the lack of chances on the powerplay.
 

Gordoff

Formerly: Strafer
Jan 18, 2003
25,328
25,804
The Hub
This &&^%$ has been going on with them for 35 years IMO. It's worse now than back then. I've seen my share of games where the Bruins are penalized 5 or 6 times, the opponent (usually Montreal) gets a 6-2 lead and then the refs give the B's a few PP's to make the numbers look even in case anyone cares to look at the numbers.
I think ( and it's only my opinion) that many of the refs are brought up in areas like Montreal or similar areas where the B's are the villains. I've also seen comments re. the Jacob's that aren't flattering. The refs (again just my opinion) may be reflecting an attitude of hate that prevails over JJ by penalizing them, with the thought that it'll bother the B's owner when in fact it doesn't harm the bottom line so in the end...he couldn't care less!
 

Mpasta

Registered User
Oct 6, 2008
5,804
722
This has been discussed ad infinitum, and it always boils down to the "We don't dive" vs. the "We are slow, so we don't get hooked/tripped/etc." camps, with some tin foil hatters and Daddy Campbell trolls thrown in.

Rinse. Lather. Repeat.

Come on. I doubt there are Bruins fans who think that way.

This &&^%$ has been going on with them for 35 years IMO. It's worse now than back then. I've seen my share of games where the Bruins are penalized 5 or 6 times, the opponent (usually Montreal) gets a 6-2 lead and then the refs give the B's a few PP's to make the numbers look even in case anyone cares to look at the numbers.
I think ( and it's only my opinion) that many of the refs are brought up in areas like Montreal or similar areas where the B's are the villains. I've also seen comments re. the Jacob's that aren't flattering. The refs (again just my opinion) may be reflecting an attitude of hate that prevails over JJ by penalizing them, with the thought that it'll bother the B's owner when in fact it doesn't harm the bottom line so in the end...he couldn't care less!

Oh. Nevermind.
 

Brick81

Registered User
May 12, 2010
95
0
Newmarket, Ont
"Risk-averse style leads to fewer opportunities."

That pretty much sums it up... This got started when father in-law was complaining how his leafs have the worst luck, too which I replied you've had 5 freaken power plays, just put the puck in the damn net!!!

Always awkward watching my "B's" and his "Leafs" play each other together (hehe)

Thanks
 

Mr. Make-Believe

The happy genius of my household
Do you sum up the calls Kadri drew the other night to risky-style of play, then?

I understand that they're style could lead to less PPs, but they had back to back games this year with no PPs. How does that happen?

I'll tell ya what it isn't... It isn't a league-wide conspiracy to screw the Bruins. :laugh:

Yeah, some guys like Kadri flip and flop everywhere every game. Wish the officials were held accountable for falling for it so often. But while there are some clubs that have it as part of their strategy or culture to sell calls, the Bruins aren't innocent in this respect either, even though I feel they are less inclined to do so than most.

Basically if the Bruins are playing the system at its best, they don't draw many calls. Just the way it is. You can argue that the players we have (not a ton of speed, lack of net drive) necessitate the style in order to be successful... and we can have that chicken/egg discussion. Or if one believes that abandoning the risk-averse strategy from time to time in an attempt to get calls is worthwhile, that may be a conversation as well.

But I think the victim card is played all too often by certain vocal factions of our fanbase.
 

PB37

Mr Selke
Oct 1, 2002
25,535
19,982
Maine
There was a really great statistical analysis that was done by a poster here before that showed that Claude Julien teams historically have low powerplay opportunities. It`s the style of play that leads to the lack of chances on the powerplay.

Then I came along to blow that theory out of the water. Since the 90-91 season, the Bruins have only had 5 top 10 finishes in PP opportunities. The Bruins have been getting few pp chances for years and it's not just a Claude thing.
 

Artemis

Took the red pill
Dec 8, 2010
20,860
2
Mount Olympus
Not playing the victim card, but just in the last two games, when Ferarro is tripped on a breakaway right in front of the ref and Trotman is blatantly slew-footed, and when McQuaid is boarded head-first and knocked out, again right IN FRONT of the ref (resulting in a suspension no less), and the Bruins are ridiculously low in PP opportunities, fans have the right to wonder WTF is going on.

And the "the Bruins don't skate fast enough to draw penalties" line is a canard. You don't have to be a speedster to draw a penalty.

It's not a conspiracy. IMHO it's buried deep in many officials' subconscious that the guys in black are tougher than anyone, and the split-second choice to blow the whistle is subsumed by that prejudice.
 

Trap Jesus

Registered User
Feb 13, 2012
28,686
13,456
These numbers are from the start of 2012/13 up until now. They only include non-coincidental penalties.

Team | Penalties Taken | Penalties Drawn | Penalties Differential
CAR | 578 | 704 | 126
S.J | 620 | 737 | 117
FLA | 656 | 742 | 86
CGY | 611 | 691 | 80
MIN | 637 | 709 | 72
NYR | 648 | 700 | 52
DAL | 718 | 764 | 46
CHI | 640 | 682 | 42
MTL | 761 | 793 | 32
NYI | 695 | 721 | 26
PIT | 761 | 775 | 14
DET | 721 | 732 | 11
L.A | 729 | 739 | 10
T.B | 736 | 742 | 6
NSH | 682 | 688 | 6
PHX-ARI | 730 | 735 | 5
EDM | 718 | 715 | -3
VAN | 748 | 729 | -19
WSH | 747 | 716 | -31
BUF | 714 | 683 | -31
PHI | 793 | 758 | -35
OTT | 783 | 744 | -39
ANA | 729 | 688 | -41
COL | 718 | 667 | -51
TOR | 774 | 714 | -60
CBJ | 790 | 722 | -68
N.J | 738 | 667 | -71
STL | 801 | 729 | -72
WPG | 797 | 717 | -80
BOS | 768 | 638 | -130


I don't care what the reasons are, it should NEVER be this lopsided towards one team.
 

patty59

***************
Apr 6, 2008
18,632
1,018
Lethbridge, Alberta
I'll tell ya what it isn't... It isn't a league-wide conspiracy to screw the Bruins. :laugh:

Yeah, some guys like Kadri flip and flop everywhere every game. Wish the officials were held accountable for falling for it so often. But while there are some clubs that have it as part of their strategy or culture to sell calls, the Bruins aren't innocent in this respect either, even though I feel they are less inclined to do so than most.

Basically if the Bruins are playing the system at its best, they don't draw many calls. Just the way it is. You can argue that the players we have (not a ton of speed, lack of net drive) necessitate the style in order to be successful... and we can have that chicken/egg discussion. Or if one believes that abandoning the risk-averse strategy from time to time in an attempt to get calls is worthwhile, that may be a conversation as well.

But I think the victim card is played all too often by certain vocal factions of our fanbase.

There was no call on Sill when he hit McQuaid from behind, in the wide open and the puck was there. Some teams get calls and some don't. Their style may lead to less PPs, but there's some blatant **** not being called out there most nights.

I bet you that the Bruins have played the most games without a PP in the last 5-8 than any other team in this league. You can't tell me that a team can go and entire game without commiting a single infraction, it's crazy.

Do I think it's a conspriracy to screw the Bruins? No. But I also don't think it's because they don't have speed or drive the net.
 

Mr. Make-Believe

The happy genius of my household
Not playing the victim card, but just in the last two games, when Ferarro is tripped on a breakaway right in front of the ref and Trotman is blatantly slew-footed, and when McQuaid is boarded head-first and knocked out, again right IN FRONT of the ref (resulting in a suspension no less), and the Bruins are ridiculously low in PP opportunities, fans have the right to wonder WTF is going on.

And the "the Bruins don't skate fast enough to draw penalties" line is a canard. You don't have to be a speedster to draw a penalty.

It's not a conspiracy. IMHO it's buried deep in many officials' subconscious that the guys in black are tougher than anyone, and the split-second choice to blow the whistle is subsumed by that prejudice.

I would say that examples that you and patty have brought up are examples of blatantly missed calls. I think we can call them that justifiably and in that context. I'm also sure that we're not the only team who feels they've been on the receiving end of some pretty lousy officiating.

I guess I'm hesitant to pat 'em on the back for being "tougher" than any other team. Although I have to admit, if you're right? I'm still okay with it. It's something to be proud of.

To me though, it shouldn't matter how tough a team is perceived to be. It's mutually exclusive to other teams committing penalties. If the explanation doesn't make sense, I have a tendency to treat that explanation with the assumed respect.
 

Mr. Make-Believe

The happy genius of my household
There was no call on Sill when he hit McQuaid from behind, in the wide open and the puck was there. Some teams get calls and some don't. Their style may lead to less PPs, but there's some blatant **** not being called out there most nights.

I bet you that the Bruins have played the most games without a PP in the last 5-8 than any other team in this league. You can't tell me that a team can go and entire game without commiting a single infraction, it's crazy.

Do I think it's a conspriracy to screw the Bruins? No. But I also don't think it's because they don't have speed or drive the net.

Just to be clear... I don't think it's a team speed issue either. And there are probably many factors at play.

But the primary one, is a style that is risk-averse. A tendency to back off with the puck instead of challenging a defender in order to maintain possession. When this team executes that plan well, they look great. When this team fails to do so and starts playing a more individual style, they look sloppy and disorganized... And they generally lose.

But if you disagree that it is a conscious style of play choice, then what do you think the primary reason is that the B's so often come out on the short end of powerplay chances?
 

bob27

Grzelcyk is a top pairing defenceman
Apr 2, 2015
3,332
1,426
These numbers are from the start of 2012/13 up until now. They only include non-coincidental penalties.

I don't care what the reasons are, it should NEVER be this lopsided towards one team.

Yeah the difference between the Bruins and 29th placed team is absurdly large. Bruins aren't the fastest team, but mediocre speed is not enough to explain such a massive chasm.
 

Artemis

Took the red pill
Dec 8, 2010
20,860
2
Mount Olympus
I would say that examples that you and patty have brought up are examples of blatantly missed calls. I think we can call them that justifiably and in that context. I'm also sure that we're not the only team who feels they've been on the receiving end of some pretty lousy officiating.

I guess I'm hesitant to pat 'em on the back for being "tougher" than any other team. Although I have to admit, if you're right? I'm still okay with it. It's something to be proud of.

To me though, it shouldn't matter how tough a team is perceived to be. It's mutually exclusive to other teams committing penalties. If the explanation doesn't make sense, I have a tendency to treat that explanation with the assumed respect.

That's why I said I believe it's subconscious among some officials. I don't think it's even at the "perceived" level.

Supposedly red cars get more speeding tickets than cars of other colors. I don't think cops really believe or even perceive they're going faster - it's just a subconscious thing. Give an official a lie detector test and he'd probably accurately state he has no prejudices.
 

SPLBRUIN

Registered User
Mar 21, 2010
11,849
11,589
Risk-averse style leads to fewer opportunities.

It's pretty simple.

I don't buy this, lots of teams play a similar style to Boston. For the people who say it's because of our lack of speed, I would answer that this year's B's team is much quicker then most of Julien's other teams and still no difference. All I know is that whenever I watch Bruins games I can almost be assured on a nightly basis that we will have more penalties then our opponents, it's to the point where I almost want us to fall behind in the PP attempts early on so we won't get screwed in the 3rd period. Do I believe that it is a league wide conspiracy against the B's ? No, but I do think that there are several officials (Jackson, Charron, etc) that seem to have it in for us, I mean we can't even catch a break playing at home.
 

sarge88

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NHL Refs are inept and still of the mindset that the Bruins are generally the instigators, so they look the other way when they get offended against and over react when the Bruins do something.
 

Bergyesque

Been there, done that.
Mar 11, 2014
1,113
660
Laval, QC, Canada
Not playing the victim card, but just in the last two games, when Ferarro is tripped on a breakaway right in front of the ref and Trotman is blatantly slew-footed, and when McQuaid is boarded head-first and knocked out, again right IN FRONT of the ref (resulting in a suspension no less), and the Bruins are ridiculously low in PP opportunities, fans have the right to wonder WTF is going on.

And the "the Bruins don't skate fast enough to draw penalties" line is a canard. You don't have to be a speedster to draw a penalty.

It's not a conspiracy. IMHO it's buried deep in many officials' subconscious that the guys in black are tougher than anyone, and the split-second choice to blow the whistle is subsumed by that prejudice.

Totally this! :handclap:

By the way, see this study from Cornell: http://faculty.smu.edu/chrisl/courses/psyc5351/articles/blackuniforms.pdf

"First, because referees are also likely to associate the color black with evil and aggressiveness, they may view any given action as more malevolent if it is performed by a player in a black uniform.
Thus, players in black uniforms may not play the game any more aggressively, but may simply be more likely to be penalized for actions that would be ignored if performed by players wearing nonblack uniforms."

"These data provide strong support for a "social perception" interpretation of the observed tendency for professional sports teams that wear black uniforms to be penalized more than their rivals. Teams that wear black uniforms receive harsher treatment from the referees. Because we associate the color black with meanness and aggressiveness, we "see" more aggressiveness or more malevolent intent in the actions of players wearing black uniforms."

"Perhaps the most telling evidence that the inordinate number of penalties amassed by black-uniformed teams is at least partially due to the judgments of referees is that our sample of experienced officials--who actually make the calls in real college and high school football games--indicated that they would call a "tighter" game when the team they had seen was wearing black uniforms."

"These results, in conjunction with the findings of Study 3, suggest that the excessive penalties amassed by black-uniformed teams in professional sports stem from two distinct processes--their own aggressiveness and harsher treatment by the referees.
It should be noted, however, that at this point we can place more confidence in the role played by the referees than by the players themselves. The effect of referees' judgments was directly assessed by having real referees do what they are paid to
do--make judgments about the legality of various actions in the game of football. In contrast, our demonstration that wearing black uniforms increased subjects' willingness to act aggressively involved only intended aggression and did not employ
any real football or hockey players as subjects."

"The way in which a visual stimulus like a black uniform can affect the judgment of referees is rather straightforward. There is now a large literature documenting how people's mental sets can distort their judgment and perception of events (Gilovich, 1981, 1983; Langer & Abelson, 1974; Nisbett & Ross, 1980; Snyder & Uranowitz, 1978; Zadny & Gerard, 1974). However, the ways in which wearing a black uniform might affect the behavior of the wearer may seem less clear."


The thing that doesn't fit here though is that the Bs' problem is not that they're being called too much, but that the other teams are not being called.
 

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