[Randall] How the Golden Knights went from risky ploy to model franchise.

[Crede777]

Because your team never built a winner and is out of the playoffs and it hurts.

Because teams should succeed through the entry draft and free agency....

If you want proof that Vegas's expansion draft was idiot proofed by the league, George McPhee was able to assemble a team that has made it to the Conference Finals.

 

[IceNeophyte]

The player you lost to them isn’t even on their team anymore and is a bottom pair dman...

Fans of, for example, Florida would make sense to hate vegas

Ahh, but Vegas didn't run Florida out of the playoffs on rails.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

Ahh, but Vegas didn't run Florida out of the playoffs on rails.

Oof

 

[Joe MacMillan]

Because teams should succeed through the entry draft and free agency....

If you want proof that Vegas's expansion draft was idiot proofed by the league, George McPhee was able to assemble a team that has made it to the Conference Finals.

Partly because they were able to convert a player whose career-high was 9 goals to a 43 goal scorer. But I guess that was the league's doing as well?

 

[Crede777]

Partly because they were able to convert a player whose career-high was 9 goals to a 43 goal scorer. But I guess that was the league's doing as well?

No, I have no issue admitting that players like Karlsson surprised everyone including McPhee but that doesn't change the fact that they were gifted the most favorable expansion draft scenario in league history.

As the CBJ GM said, we know we are going to lose a good player the issue is which one.

In the past, teams didn't have to worry about losing any good players at all. It should have been kept that way and Vegas should have used the entry draft and cap space to acquire its key talents.

I also don't have anything against the Knights. They just did what any team would do in their situation. The problem is the other 30 owners who didn't drive harder bargains when negotiating expansion. They could have kept all their good players AND gotten the same amount of money from Vegas but they didn't.

 

[nbwingsfan]

I knew they would be not the worst team in the league before the season even started. Took me about a 20 games in and I realized the league made a huge mistake. Then I realized that it probably wasn't a mistake and they knew they had to farm some fans while they are still the only professional team in Vegas. The problem I think I see is that they are going to lose alot of long time fans when they beat the Jets. I had predicted them to go to the SCF months ago if you want to go through my post history and find that I'm not flip flopping. Just watching them I knew they were a top team in the west.

Going by this teams 2016/17 seasons (totals in brackets)

Marchessault (51)- Karlsson (25) - Smith (37)
Perron (46) - Haula (26) - Neal (42)
Leipsic (AHL) - Eakin (12) - Tuch (NCAA)
Nosek (AHL) - Bellemare (8) - Lindberg (20)

Schmidt (17) - McNabb (4/healthy scratch)
Miller (16) - Theodore (9/AHL)
Engelland (16) - Garrison (12)

Fleury (backup goalie)
Pickard (backup goalie)

I will never believe one single person who can look at that roster and believe that the NHL gave them an unfair advantage and thought they would be good.

Hell, if Florida had any common sense then you can also remove Marchessault/Smith from that list and add Petrovic . It's not the NHL's fault that Florida had a stroke on expansion day.

 

[njdevils1982]

Thanks so much for getting involved. Would you want asterisks beside St. Louis' cups if they had won 3 by upset? Probably.

no problem, glad to get involved.

 

[Kranix]

First off, it's called a comparison to demonstrate a point. I used a particularly heinous example to show why the league stepping in at all is not good.

Second, it's disingenuous to call the players Vegas selected "cast offs." By definition, any player Vegas selected would be a cast off even if teams could only protect 1 player. That doesn't mean they aren't valuable or that the team deemed them expendable. Now, plenty of teams have more than 11 valuable, key players.

Third, slightly deeper is an understatement. In previous expansion drafts, teams had to select a significant number of players who were on other teams' AHL squads.

You're really reaching.

 

[Crede777]

You're really reaching.

You obviously don't understand how much talent teams have nowadays all through their lineup.

 

[Kranix]

You obviously don't understand how much talent teams have nowadays all through their lineup.

Plenty of teams' 5th defenseman and 7th forward are "key" players?

 

[Joe MacMillan]

No, I have no issue admitting that players like Karlsson surprised everyone including McPhee but that doesn't change the fact that they were gifted the most favorable expansion draft scenario in league history.

As the CBJ GM said, we know we are going to lose a good player the issue is which one.

In the past, teams didn't have to worry about losing any good players at all. It should have been kept that way and Vegas should have used the entry draft and cap space to acquire its key talents.

I don't think expansion draft rules 20 years ago should dictate how they should have handled the draft last July.

Fact of the matter is coming into the season no one thought Vegas could compete with the roster they picked at the draft. So I don't see what the issue is here.

 

[Crede777]

Plenty of teams' 5th defenseman and 7th forward are "key" players?

Yes. Teams aren't as top heavy as they used to be. Now, rosters are built on depth - guys who a few years ago would have been top-6 forwards or top-4 defensemen but are lower because of age, experience, or chemistry.

 

[GOilers88]

I've just come to terms that if they swept the entire playoffs and won a Stanley Cup this year people would still defend the expansion draft.

Absolutely unbelievable the mental gymnastics some of you people must go through to try to make this into some feel good story. They made the NHL look like a joke with their expansion draft conditions.

Yeah. Griffin Reinhart, Luca Sbisa, Derek Engelland, Marc Methot, Brayden McNabb and Colin Miller was probably the most unfair blueline I've ever seen. With those guys defending the zone and big gamers like Alex Tuch, Reilly Smith and Erik Haula patrolling the ice it's a wonder they didn't go 82-0.

Seriously, you just look like a whiner.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

The player you lost to them isn’t even on their team anymore and is a bottom pair dman...

Fans of, for example, Florida would make sense to hate vegas

Why would this even be a reason to hate a team? Most Flyers fans rallied behind the LA Kings in 2012 and 2014 because of Jeff Carter and Mike Richards. Vegas also has Ryan Carpenter who the Sharks put on waivers.

Ahh, but Vegas didn't run Florida out of the playoffs on rails.

This, along with the fact that they have the worst, most spoiled, entitled, and annoying fan base (speaking from experiences with in person fans)...not hard to hate.

For the record, I said Vegas was my least favorite team after the second time San Jose played them in the regular season. The plethora of dirty plays they commit with a suspicious lack of supplemental discipline is another reason to hate them.

Remember folks, this is not even a 2 minute minor penalty, in the regular season:



(Joel Ward was seriously injured on the play and needed shoulder surgery.)

But this is a 5 minute major and a game misconduct to go along with a one game suspension in the playoffs:

 

[VoluntaryDom]

Why would this even be a reason to hate a team? Most Flyers fans rallied behind the LA Kings in 2012 and 2014 because of Jeff Carter and Mike Richards. Vegas also has Ryan Carpenter who the Sharks put on waivers.



This, along with the fact that they have the worst, most spoiled, entitled, and annoying fan base (speaking from experiences with in person fans)...not hard to hate.

For the record, I said Vegas was my least favorite team after the second time San Jose played them in the regular season. The plethora of dirty plays they commit with a suspicious lack of supplemental discipline is another reason to hate them.

Remember folks, this is not even a 2 minute minor penalty, in the regular season:



(Joel Ward was seriously injured on the play and needed shoulder surgery.)

But this is a 5 minute major and a game misconduct to go along with a one game suspension in the playoffs:

Caps are the same way LOL, Kempny makes a massive cross check, only a fine, makes another this game, and probably isn’t getting supplemental discipline for it

 

[IceNeophyte]

Why would this even be a reason to hate a team? Most Flyers fans rallied behind the LA Kings in 2012 and 2014 because of Jeff Carter and Mike Richards. Vegas also has Ryan Carpenter who the Sharks put on waivers.



This, along with the fact that they have the worst, most spoiled, entitled, and annoying fan base (speaking from experiences with in person fans)...not hard to hate.

For the record, I said Vegas was my least favorite team after the second time San Jose played them in the regular season. The plethora of dirty plays they commit with a suspicious lack of supplemental discipline is another reason to hate them.

Remember folks, this is not even a 2 minute minor penalty, in the regular season:



(Joel Ward was seriously injured on the play and needed shoulder surgery.)

But this is a 5 minute major and a game misconduct to go along with a one game suspension in the playoffs:

Schmidt is very clearly trying to let up here. It was an unfortunate chain of events and Kane wasn't hit with force. The thought of San Jose fans calling VGK dirty is rich. The exception being Reaves.

The funny thing is that I've found SJS fans around town and at the games to be likable. It's the keyboard warriors on social media that I find obnoxious.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Schmidt is very clearly trying to let up here. It was an unfortunate chain of events and Kane wasn't hit with force. The thought of San Jose fans calling VGK dirty is rich. The exception being Reaves.

The funny thing is that I've found SJS fans around town and at the games to be likable. It's the keyboard warriors on social media that I find obnoxious.

The funny thing is that I am basing my fan base comments entirely on my experience at T-Mobile Arena. And it’s the fact that they were the stereotypical, aggressive drunk people in Vegas trying to start fights; not that I overheard some of them trying to figure out how many games were in a playoff series.

 

[IceNeophyte]

The funny thing is that I am basing my fan base comments entirely on my experience at T-Mobile Arena. And it’s the fact that they were the stereotypical, aggressive drunk people in Vegas trying to start fights; not that I overheard some of them trying to figure out how many games were in a playoff series.

Odd, I've been to 30 games and I've seen two instances of idiocy.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Odd, I've been to 30 games and I've seen two instances of idiocy.

I mean, it was a playoff game, and I wore a Sharks jersey. But there were various fans trying to start fights with my dad and me.

 

[Kranix]

Yes. Teams aren't as top heavy as they used to be. Now, rosters are built on depth - guys who a few years ago would have been top-6 forwards or top-4 defensemen but are lower because of age, experience, or chemistry.

Sure, every player contributes and helps the team win, but look down the expansion draft list, are you going to say each team lost a key player they really couldn't afford to lose?

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

people blaming the NHL because other GMs were dumb enough to expose good players is hilarious

the salary cap plays a huge role in this as well...Fleury, Reilly Smith, and Neal were exposed due to cap reasons

 

[Crede777]

Sure, every player contributes and helps the team win, but look down the expansion draft list, are you going to say each team lost a key player they really couldn't afford to lose?

No, nobody lost anybody they couldn't afford to lose. But that's not what I'm arguing. What I'm saying is they all had the potential to lose a player who was pretty good.

Being able to field a team of "pretty good" players with the existence of a salary cap and being able to start from scratch is a recipe for a good amount of success in the first season. And that's more of an advantage than any other expansion team has gotten.

I'm just saying, let the expansion draft be a way for the team to field a roster of warm bodies who are simply placeholders for when the actually good players come through the draft and free agency. That's been the philosophy for every expansion draft until now.

 

[Newsworthy]

Sure, every player contributes and helps the team win, but look down the expansion draft list, are you going to say each team lost a key player they really couldn't afford to lose?

Your not factoring in teams having to surrender draft picks.

 

[Kranix]

Your not factoring in teams having to surrender draft picks.

I don't need to.

 

[Kranix]

No, nobody lost anybody they couldn't afford to lose. But that's not what I'm arguing. What I'm saying is they all had the potential to lose a player who was pretty good.

Being able to field a team of "pretty good" players with the existence of a salary cap and being able to start from scratch is a recipe for a good amount of success in the first season. And that's more of an advantage than any other expansion team has gotten.

I'm just saying, let the expansion draft be a way for the team to field a roster of warm bodies who are simply placeholders for when the actually good players come through the draft and free agency. That's been the philosophy for every expansion draft until now.

But why? Why do it the same way? Like you said teams are deep, the league realized the old way was bad, and new teams could afford lose some players that were better than AHL level.