OT: Raise the Jolly Roger: We're the Pirates, bro

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DJ Spinoza

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I think Williams will get a long look just because he figures to give you a lot of innings. But if he can't really dial in the location, then those innings quickly become bad, so we'll see.

I'm watching the telecast. Holland actually looked pretty solid, lots of deception and almost entirely weak contact. Cruz smashed a double off the wall on a pitch from Casey Mize on his hands like it was nothing, made a solid defensive play as well. I like what I see of Socrates Brito. Kela struck out 4 people in his inning but didn't get a call from the idiot umpire. His stuff looks like it's in mid-season form.
 
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DanielPlainview

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Kinda of annoyed they played these games simultaneously. Couldn’t have had one at noon and another at 3?
 

Gallatin

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Williams relies on location. When he’s on, he’ll give you 6 innings, 1 or 2 runs like clockwork. Hopefully he finds his location

When he's on the guy is no doubt a 3 or 4 starter. When he's off - even just a bit, it's 6th/7th starter territory. The Mental game is everything with Williams.
 

DJ Spinoza

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Just realized that the Phillies game is on MLB tv too and caught Hayes almost hitting a HR to dead center. Hit it hard but low, and the CF made a good play to go back on it and catch it.

Swaggerty is in the Tigers game now, but I worry that Cruz is out because most of the players seem to have been swapped as usual in these early games. Perhaps not, as Craig is still in the game, so maybe Cruz has a chance to come up this inning.

FWIW Polanco looks healthy to me but the swing seems a little long.
 

ChaosAgent

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When he's on the guy is no doubt a 3 or 4 starter. When he's off - even just a bit, it's 6th/7th starter territory. The Mental game is everything with Williams.

I think from a talent standpoint, Kuhl and Brubaker have him beat. The scouting reports on Brubaker really make it seem like the guy is a ready-made #3-4 starter that just slipped through the "hype" cracks over the last couple years.

I'm excited to see him pitch, obviously.
 

Gallatin

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I think from a talent standpoint, Kuhl and Brubaker have him beat. The scouting reports on Brubaker really make it seem like the guy is a ready-made #3-4 starter that just slipped through the "hype" cracks over the last couple years.

I'm excited to see him pitch, obviously.
Kuhl has more physical talent, Williams more mental talent. I'm not buying on Brubaker till I see it in the Show. He's still a Quad-A guy in my book.
 

ChaosAgent

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Kuhl has more physical talent, Williams more mental talent. I'm not buying on Brubaker till I see it in the Show. He's still a Quad-A guy in my book.

I don't think you can call a guy Quad-A until he fails at the MLB level. I thought that was a near-universal criteria for that label :)
 

DJ Spinoza

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I think Brubaker's stuff will play up more as a swingman, whereas I'm fully sold on trying to make Kuhl a starter as much as his innings will allow this year.

Cherington will be on the AT&T broadcast in the bottom of the 7th. I'm not sure I'll make it that far but will look forward to the truisms and platitudes of GM speak. Not sure why he's so buried late in the game.
 

Big McLargehuge

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That guy is really something to dream about. Don't think I've seen such a high ceiling since Bonds...

The fact that we got him for Tony Watson really underlines how bad some of the other trade returns were, though there's no point in dredging that point up again.

I mean, I don't blame the Dodgers for selling a ridiculously giant, raw 18 year-old who was obviously going to have to change positions when they had the chance to win. Incidentally Watson was the winning pitcher in 2 World Series games and that trade probably would be thought of highly by Dodgers fans if the Astros weren't cheating bags of rancid feces...
 
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Gallatin

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The fact that we got him for Tony Watson really underlines how bad some of the other trade returns were, though there's no point in dredging that point up again.

I mean, I don't blame the Dodgers for selling a ridiculously giant, raw 18 year-old who was obviously going to have to change positions when they had the chance to win. Incidentally Watson was the winning pitcher in 2 World Series games and that trade probably would be thought of highly by Dodgers fans if the Astros weren't cheating bags of rancid feces...

I always want the high risk high upside guy back in trades because - small market baseball.
 

Gallatin

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That laser was off Casey Mize, FYI


Stuff like this from ProspectsLive really make you wonder if Cruz might actually be able to crush SS defensively someday...

"His absurd 4.71 RF/9 (a range tool using putouts+assists/ nine innings played) would have been the best in baseball since 2017. Adalberto Mondesi was the top guy in the last two years at 4.57."

Pirates 2020 Top 30 Prospects — Prospects Live
 

ChaosAgent

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Stuff like this from ProspectsLive really make you wonder if Cruz might actually be able to crush SS defensively someday...

"His absurd 4.71 RF/9 (a range tool using putouts+assists/ nine innings played) would have been the best in baseball since 2017. Adalberto Mondesi was the top guy in the last two years at 4.57."

Pirates 2020 Top 30 Prospects — Prospects Live

Not doubting the upshot that is Cruz's massive upside, but that stat seems like the RBIs of defense. Total factor of how many opportunities come your way.

Just a quibble.
 
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Gallatin

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Not doubting the upshot that is Cruz's massive upside, but that stat seems like the RBIs of defense. Total factor of how many opportunities come your way.

Just a quibble.

That's not one of my fav stats either. But Cruz does have better range than I ever would have thought until last season. Like I said earlier - I'm dreaming on the guy.
 

ChaosAgent

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That's not one of my fav stats either. But Cruz does have better range than I ever would have thought until last season. Like I said earlier - I'm dreaming on the guy.

I think it's probably just a stat that's easily available at the MILB level. I doubt they can do UZR and that kinda stuff.

But like if the guy is a shortstop, get TF out of his way. Make either Newman or Tucker the 2B and flip the other for pitching (of course, flip my avatar for pitching too).
 
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Gallatin

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I think it's probably just a stat that's easily available at the MILB level. I doubt they can do UZR and that kinda stuff.

But like if the guy is a shortstop, get TF out of his way. Make either Newman or Tucker the 2B and flip the other for pitching (of course, flip my avatar for pitching too).

Newman would be quality @ 2B. I'm such a Tucker fan - not sure if he will ever OPS above .750 though. Another player that desperately needs a new hitting approach IMO.
 

DJ Spinoza

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I think Cruz's defense is a huge story to keep an eye on this year, although I'd put it behind the development of his hit tool in terms of importance. Obviously, it's something of an artificial separation, as it's becoming clear that he's probably the main organizational focus for this year from a fan perspective... just because the perspective is so high. If he stays at SS, he will have a chance to be one of the most valuable players in the league if the offense keeps going.

It's an interesting kind of dilemma, since you obviously don't want to miss out on his potential at SS while at the same time perhaps already having a number of solid options at the position right now. If you were looking to accelerate your window, you could probably just stick him in an outfield corner and have his bat in the lineup by next June. I think patience will be worth it, and he should just continue to stick at SS for the time being. If you have to make a switch, I'd start by considering CF actually. His athleticism is going to allow him to play a valuable position when he breaks in, so that's probably where I'd pivot to. But for now, SS and developing at the AA level, and his performance will be interesting to track. He's so young that I think patience is a real key, but he might have the kind of soaring stock to start penciling him in – somewhere – by next June or so no matter what.

Btw, I do think some deserved praise is due to Huntington on this front, and not quite as an anomaly. I'm not sure if everyone saw it or not, but Nesbitt mentioned the other day that Huntington was working under a mandate to make the team into as close to a playoff contender as possible, which I think partially helps to explain his conservatism in the Cole trade. I'm pretty firmly convinced that he wasn't the driver behind the Archer deal, but regardless, I think Huntington had a pretty good ability to ask for the right players in lesser deals. We don't know if Cruz or Tahnaj will really blow up, but he got both of them for spare parts, did the same for multiple closers, etc.
 

Gallatin

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I think Cruz's defense is a huge story to keep an eye on this year, although I'd put it behind the development of his hit tool in terms of importance. Obviously, it's something of an artificial separation, as it's becoming clear that he's probably the main organizational focus for this year from a fan perspective... just because the perspective is so high. If he stays at SS, he will have a chance to be one of the most valuable players in the league if the offense keeps going.

It's an interesting kind of dilemma, since you obviously don't want to miss out on his potential at SS while at the same time perhaps already having a number of solid options at the position right now. If you were looking to accelerate your window, you could probably just stick him in an outfield corner and have his bat in the lineup by next June. I think patience will be worth it, and he should just continue to stick at SS for the time being. If you have to make a switch, I'd start by considering CF actually. His athleticism is going to allow him to play a valuable position when he breaks in, so that's probably where I'd pivot to. But for now, SS and developing at the AA level, and his performance will be interesting to track. He's so young that I think patience is a real key, but he might have the kind of soaring stock to start penciling him in – somewhere – by next June or so no matter what.

Btw, I do think some deserved praise is due to Huntington on this front, and not quite as an anomaly. I'm not sure if everyone saw it or not, but Nesbitt mentioned the other day that Huntington was working under a mandate to make the team into as close to a playoff contender as possible, which I think partially helps to explain his conservatism in the Cole trade. I'm pretty firmly convinced that he wasn't the driver behind the Archer deal, but regardless, I think Huntington had a pretty good ability to ask for the right players in lesser deals. We don't know if Cruz or Tahnaj will really blow up, but he got both of them for spare parts, did the same for multiple closers, etc.

Huntington & Company brought in a ton of high upside teens his last two years. Ben Cherrington wanted this job because the pump is already primed in the low minors, with a few gems a year or two ahead of them.
 
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DJ Spinoza

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Yeah, and I think the kicker is that Cherington has free reign to construct things how he sees fit. I'm something of a Huntington truther and will defend him up to a point, so these recent comments are quite interesting. I think Huntington did have weaknesses and might even be willing to say he deserved the firing, but the mandate to chase the playoffs every year complicates matters some. If Nutting was imposing that on him while also not investing in the developmental stuff, I don't think that bodes well. It's not as fun to talk about but we need Cherington free to "build" how he sees fit, and then we need a genuine, at least Brewers-like investment in the MLB payroll.

I think Cherington is in good shape and will be in even better shape if he churns the right players and gets the maximum out of guys like Keller and Hayes as part of the pivot.
 
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Gallatin

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Yeah, and I think the kicker is that Cherington has free reign to construct things how he sees fit. I'm something of a Huntington truther and will defend him up to a point, so these recent comments are quite interesting. I think Huntington did have weaknesses and might even be willing to say he deserved the firing, but the mandate to chase the playoffs every year complicates matters some. If Nutting was imposing that on him while also not investing in the developmental stuff, I don't think that bodes well. It's not as fun to talk about but we need Cherington free to "build" how he sees fit, and then we need a genuine, at least Brewers-like investment in the MLB payroll.

I think Cherington is in good shape and will be in even better shape if he churns the right players and gets the maximum out of guys like Keller and Hayes as part of the pivot.

Huntington did a lot of things right his last few years, letting Stark micro-manage prospect development was not one of those IMO. Not positioning the team on the forefront of tech-driven player development was another.
Archer trade was another really bad one - in particular that move drove me away as a fan.

I am really putting a lot of my hopes on Travis Williams to figure out how to deal with revenues, without pressuring BC to win now. I believe we are starting a three year rebuild.

“We’re going to build on the great infrastructure that’s already in place, and we’re going to let baseball people make day-to-day baseball decisions, but they’re going to have, much like what we did at the Penguins, the benefit of my non-baseball specific knowledge and more business/professional sports knowledge providing some oversight and some checks and balances, if you will, to make sure that we’re making good sound decision for the overall organization, maybe not emotionally around certain decisions that would be made.”

I believe Williams is close to the perfect Pirates President at this time, and hiring the top experienced GM candidate available to Pittsburgh as his first move has only reinforced those beliefs.
 

DJ Spinoza

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I think the approach to pitching was a systematic weakness as well. Searage deserves a lot of blame, but I think it also come from the top, and combined with getting lapped on the player development stuff, put us too much at a disadvantage.

For all the attention on the low payroll right now, I hope there has been a substantial investment into tech and staff as the foundation for the "build." I don't think that's sufficient, but I'd much rather just stand pat on things while pouring money into that than I would scratch off another FA or two. The MLB payroll will need to expand significantly in order to be a bonafide division contender in 22 or 23, but the elements are in place for Cherington to pull that off, I think.
 

Gallatin

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I think the approach to pitching was a systematic weakness as well. Searage deserves a lot of blame, but I think it also come from the top, and combined with getting lapped on the player development stuff, put us too much at a disadvantage.

For all the attention on the low payroll right now, I hope there has been a substantial investment into tech and staff as the foundation for the "build." I don't think that's sufficient, but I'd much rather just stand pat on things while pouring money into that than I would scratch off another FA or two. The MLB payroll will need to expand significantly in order to be a bonafide division contender in 22 or 23, but the elements are in place for Cherington to pull that off, I think.

Above all else - I hope BC is pouring money into what he thinks will be the cutting edge development solutions in a few years. Have to take risks when you are a team like Pittsburgh.
 
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