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Eeny Meeny Miny Moe
- Sep 25, 2005
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OT: Raise the Jolly Roger: The Condemned of Altoona
- Thread starter Big McLargehuge
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Return of the Paek
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DanielPlainview
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NewAgeOutlaw
Belie Dat!
I would never go as far to say that any baseball manager is totally responsible for when his team plays like a trash heap for an entire month straight.
I will say that for an organization that is supposedly trying to win now, Hurdle is under unbelievably low pressure. Nobody is even floating the possibility of him getting canned.
I know expectations for this team have been low from the start, but how do you let a manager survive 4 or 5 astronomical f*** up losses in a matter of weeks?
It's not like they are getting run off the field due to a lack of talent. They just continue to choke away games they should win.
I will say that for an organization that is supposedly trying to win now, Hurdle is under unbelievably low pressure. Nobody is even floating the possibility of him getting canned.
I know expectations for this team have been low from the start, but how do you let a manager survive 4 or 5 astronomical f*** up losses in a matter of weeks?
It's not like they are getting run off the field due to a lack of talent. They just continue to choke away games they should win.
Dick Sledge
The Tactleneck
- Feb 11, 2009
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DanielPlainview
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Right now, I'd even DFA Rodriguez to bring up Osuna to play 1B for a week or so. Bell has just completely lost it at the plate.
Winger for Hire
Praise Beebo
Always smart to put the leadoff hitter on when the team is cruising because of the "unwritten rules".
What a team.
What a team.
DJ Spinoza
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- Aug 7, 2003
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I think I'm with Paek - that game broke me, and I'm probably out of commission for a bit.
I fully blame the bonehead intentional HBP, and by extension, Harrison. He has an awful approach at the plate which is why he gets hit so often. It's really as simple as that, and not some kind of intentional shit. He's probably hurt as a result, which on top of everything else, means that we're going to see Rodriguez starting because Frazier was sent down.
You just don't give free passes to other teams when you are utterly desperate for a win. Behind this, of course, is the undeniable fact that this bullpen is not good enough to consistently win games. Santana is a fine young pitcher, and you can only count on the bullpen so much when you are putting them into bad situations, but there simply is not a good pitcher in the bullpen. Santana and Vazquez are the best two, Glasnow and Brault probably after that, then it's a range of who knows what you'll even get. Crick was fine initially, then last night he couldn't even get the ball within 10 feet of home plate.
We will never be able to win enough games to get back into the race with that bullpen/starting pitching combination. If we somehow get good offense and a stretch of games where the starters go 7 innings or so, then maybe we can rattle off a 6-1 run or something, and nominally get back into striking distance.
I genuinely thought that last night's game was the start of a bit of a turnaround. We probably should have been able to win the Chicago series, but at least played well enough to take the last game. We're facing one of the best pitchers in the league, and get some key hitting and bounces to get into a 5-0 lead. Musgrove was literally dominating in every sense, and we were cruising to an easy victory, so much so that I was initially unfazed by the stupid HBP. We would have been set up for a momentum-building series win, and at least a chance at maybe something like a nice 5-2 homestand, which while it wouldn't fix all the mess of the collapse, would at least put us in a position to genuinely be a relevant playoff team at the all star break.
I hope that I'm wrong, because at least on paper it's not by any means a done deal yet, but this team belongs in the echelon with San Diego and Cincinnati. I will be floored if they can put up any resistance to the Diamondbacks in this series -- what they deserve and I think will walk into is some kind of utter destruction that will put the exclamation point on this catastrophic and almost unthinkable collapse. NAO is definitely right about how pathetic it is that there's no sense in which Hurdle's job even seems to be a little bit on the line.
Bell and Polanco's struggles remain huge x-factors in my view, because getting both of them going is the biggest thing that stands between an effective/decent offense, and the kind of offense we saw routinely knocking solid pitchers around and out of games early, making them work, etc. But certainly in terms of the underlying obviousness in terms of who to blame, there is Hurdle and only Hurdle. You have to wonder if things might be somewhat different had we starter out more or less like the 78-80 win team we are on paper, and then collapsed in this epic fashion. I doubt it.
Stick a fork in this team.
I fully blame the bonehead intentional HBP, and by extension, Harrison. He has an awful approach at the plate which is why he gets hit so often. It's really as simple as that, and not some kind of intentional shit. He's probably hurt as a result, which on top of everything else, means that we're going to see Rodriguez starting because Frazier was sent down.
You just don't give free passes to other teams when you are utterly desperate for a win. Behind this, of course, is the undeniable fact that this bullpen is not good enough to consistently win games. Santana is a fine young pitcher, and you can only count on the bullpen so much when you are putting them into bad situations, but there simply is not a good pitcher in the bullpen. Santana and Vazquez are the best two, Glasnow and Brault probably after that, then it's a range of who knows what you'll even get. Crick was fine initially, then last night he couldn't even get the ball within 10 feet of home plate.
We will never be able to win enough games to get back into the race with that bullpen/starting pitching combination. If we somehow get good offense and a stretch of games where the starters go 7 innings or so, then maybe we can rattle off a 6-1 run or something, and nominally get back into striking distance.
I genuinely thought that last night's game was the start of a bit of a turnaround. We probably should have been able to win the Chicago series, but at least played well enough to take the last game. We're facing one of the best pitchers in the league, and get some key hitting and bounces to get into a 5-0 lead. Musgrove was literally dominating in every sense, and we were cruising to an easy victory, so much so that I was initially unfazed by the stupid HBP. We would have been set up for a momentum-building series win, and at least a chance at maybe something like a nice 5-2 homestand, which while it wouldn't fix all the mess of the collapse, would at least put us in a position to genuinely be a relevant playoff team at the all star break.
I hope that I'm wrong, because at least on paper it's not by any means a done deal yet, but this team belongs in the echelon with San Diego and Cincinnati. I will be floored if they can put up any resistance to the Diamondbacks in this series -- what they deserve and I think will walk into is some kind of utter destruction that will put the exclamation point on this catastrophic and almost unthinkable collapse. NAO is definitely right about how pathetic it is that there's no sense in which Hurdle's job even seems to be a little bit on the line.
Bell and Polanco's struggles remain huge x-factors in my view, because getting both of them going is the biggest thing that stands between an effective/decent offense, and the kind of offense we saw routinely knocking solid pitchers around and out of games early, making them work, etc. But certainly in terms of the underlying obviousness in terms of who to blame, there is Hurdle and only Hurdle. You have to wonder if things might be somewhat different had we starter out more or less like the 78-80 win team we are on paper, and then collapsed in this epic fashion. I doubt it.
Stick a fork in this team.
cheesedanish87
Registered User
Yeah, this team sucks.
I'v about had it with NH and Hurdle, they did some good things here, but its time for a change.
Both NH and Hurdle are handicapped because the owner doesn't spend money, but they have done a bad job with what they have had to work with recently.
I'v about had it with NH and Hurdle, they did some good things here, but its time for a change.
Both NH and Hurdle are handicapped because the owner doesn't spend money, but they have done a bad job with what they have had to work with recently.
DanielPlainview
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I don't have a problem with Musgrove hitting the batter. It's fine. It wasn't a catalyst for the bullpen falling apart or Freese making a bad play. I'm laying the blame there. I will however, once again, point out Hurdle's stupidity. Musgrove had no business being taken out of that game.
DanielPlainview
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Harrison's in the lineup, so that's good. Bell and Polanco are also, that's not so good. Meadows on the bench. No Cervelli.
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DJ Spinoza
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- Aug 7, 2003
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I agree, looking back, the lightning quick hook on Musgrove got overshadowed.
In the end, I think part of it might also come down to a team that is refusing to accept how mediocre they are. The way they talk is like they have had a bad run of 5 or 6 games with some bad luck, not literally an eternity of utter shit. It's hilarious that we are only 7.5 games out given how we've played. That's a big lead if you think that any of these teams are going to really stack up a huge winning percentage and run away in the division, but I really don't see that happening.
Problem is, the path towards getting back in the mix involves a steady run of winning some series, maybe sweeping one or two, and avoiding these awful stretches, and I just don't see us doing it. If we could have won this series, put up a good homestand, and then tread water a bit, won a couple more series... we could have shaved that down to 5 games or so, and then maybe 3.5 or 4 at the all star break, which is hardly anything. As it stands, I'll be surprised if we are even 7.5 back at the all star break. Unless we put up some divisional sweeps or something, we'll easily be 9 or 10 back.
I think it's more disappointing than the 2013 team, because this team has some real talent scattered around. Maybe that's also refusing to accept how mediocre they are, but we just aren't as bad as a 5-16 team or whatever, and we managed to completely squander a really nice cushion. At worst we should have been looking at an all star break where we had fallen 4 games behind the division. The more I think about it, the more I'm actually amazed that we're only a handful of games under .500, and 7.5 back in the division.
In the end, I think part of it might also come down to a team that is refusing to accept how mediocre they are. The way they talk is like they have had a bad run of 5 or 6 games with some bad luck, not literally an eternity of utter shit. It's hilarious that we are only 7.5 games out given how we've played. That's a big lead if you think that any of these teams are going to really stack up a huge winning percentage and run away in the division, but I really don't see that happening.
Problem is, the path towards getting back in the mix involves a steady run of winning some series, maybe sweeping one or two, and avoiding these awful stretches, and I just don't see us doing it. If we could have won this series, put up a good homestand, and then tread water a bit, won a couple more series... we could have shaved that down to 5 games or so, and then maybe 3.5 or 4 at the all star break, which is hardly anything. As it stands, I'll be surprised if we are even 7.5 back at the all star break. Unless we put up some divisional sweeps or something, we'll easily be 9 or 10 back.
I think it's more disappointing than the 2013 team, because this team has some real talent scattered around. Maybe that's also refusing to accept how mediocre they are, but we just aren't as bad as a 5-16 team or whatever, and we managed to completely squander a really nice cushion. At worst we should have been looking at an all star break where we had fallen 4 games behind the division. The more I think about it, the more I'm actually amazed that we're only a handful of games under .500, and 7.5 back in the division.
DanielPlainview
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I'll beat the dead horse some more.
I firmly believe this roster has the talent to win 80-85 games, if managed correctly. They have a decent rotation; not dominant but good enough. A lineup of Harrison-Meadows-Marte-Cervelli-Dickerson-Bell-Moran-Mercer is GOOD, even if Bell isn't smashing HRs. But we haven't seen it once. Not. Once. That's absurd. The bullpen is a weakness, but it's exacerbated by poor utilization.
What other organization would have their team drop from 9 games above .500 to 2 games below, watch their manager continually play sub-optimal lineups and make the worst decisions possible in-game, and not make a change? It's not like Hurdle is Joe Torre with 4 WS wins earning him the benefit of the doubt. He's being allowed to be awful without consequence. At the very least, NH should have DFA'd SeanRod to send the message that he needs to get his head out of his ass.
I firmly believe this roster has the talent to win 80-85 games, if managed correctly. They have a decent rotation; not dominant but good enough. A lineup of Harrison-Meadows-Marte-Cervelli-Dickerson-Bell-Moran-Mercer is GOOD, even if Bell isn't smashing HRs. But we haven't seen it once. Not. Once. That's absurd. The bullpen is a weakness, but it's exacerbated by poor utilization.
What other organization would have their team drop from 9 games above .500 to 2 games below, watch their manager continually play sub-optimal lineups and make the worst decisions possible in-game, and not make a change? It's not like Hurdle is Joe Torre with 4 WS wins earning him the benefit of the doubt. He's being allowed to be awful without consequence. At the very least, NH should have DFA'd SeanRod to send the message that he needs to get his head out of his ass.
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DJ Spinoza
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Hopefully Kang forces his hand a little bit. I think the Frazier demotion was partially about Meadows' promotion basically being permanent at this point - i.e., there are no starts to be had in the outfield, and he's struggled anyways. Rodriguez is ostensibly the utility infielder, but Freese is obviously a lot better than him, and can play some at first base. If Kang forces his way onto the roster, there's no other logical move besides parting ways with Rodriguez.
I agree about the 80-85 games, and I'd honestly round that closer to 88 or 90 given the start that we had. But that's now completely gone, and I think we'll fight to maintain this record. 78 or 80 wins at best.
I agree about the 80-85 games, and I'd honestly round that closer to 88 or 90 given the start that we had. But that's now completely gone, and I think we'll fight to maintain this record. 78 or 80 wins at best.
DanielPlainview
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I'm guessing we'll see Kang come up right as Cervelli returns, giving them the perfect swap of Stallings for Kang.
I feel like they're working harder to keep SeanRod in the team than making sure they have the best group of guys in the dugout. I'd rather have: Moroff, Newman, Osuna, or Frazier.
I feel like they're working harder to keep SeanRod in the team than making sure they have the best group of guys in the dugout. I'd rather have: Moroff, Newman, Osuna, or Frazier.
DJ Spinoza
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Good point, I forgot that Cervelli wasn't on the DL. I briefly saw some of Huntington's typical nonsense doublespeak re: Rodriguez on his radio show. We're going to be stuck with him indefinitely.
cheesedanish87
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DanielPlainview
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Good to work the pitch count up to 27 in the 1st. Bad to get nothing out of bases loaded and 1 out. Ugh.
DJ Spinoza
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I'm genuinely relieved Williams gave up that huge hit instead of getting out of this only down 2-0. I want all the hope inside me strangled out as soon as possible.
Every game is uniquely horrendous, it's almost like an algorithmically-generated troll of depressed Pirates fans.
Every game is uniquely horrendous, it's almost like an algorithmically-generated troll of depressed Pirates fans.
cheesedanish87
Registered User
OMG is this awful.
This team looks like a little league team.
Anybody who is still watching this team has to be a die hard fan.
This team looks like a little league team.
Anybody who is still watching this team has to be a die hard fan.
DJ Spinoza
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Winger for Hire
Praise Beebo
DanielPlainview
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DanielPlainview
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