OT: Raise the Jolly Roger: Play On, Garth

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Still getting that 2013 to 15 feeling coming up. With last year being like 2012.

And Liriano is even back.

We can complain about not spending but until theres sellouts Nutting wont go to 90 mil again. Comes down to pitching being what they were since July anyway. And the offense will be better by default. Cant be as bad as August. And we shouldnt go on another 14-32 stretch. Whatever that was.

They say there's a 3 year window but with the emergence of prospects like Hayes who they did know about and now even Tucker(who they didnt expect to reach this point imo) and maybe Craig(who was a wasted pick)...the whole trading away Glasnow, Meadows, etc may have not been the right idea.

Theyve been doing the wrong things at the wrong times since 2013. Not going all in those years and settling for WC games. To trading top guys away for players you would if at top of the division. Moves we should have made back then. And now we are in between. Supposedly another 3 year window but if these prospects continue their path its longer. With Tucker improving this much along with what we have in Hayes they could just be waiting to see where things are in after a few months. Not the strategy Id go..since losing games/series in first 2 months count just as much. And we were supposedly already going for it. So why not sign guys instead of trading more prospects while waiting to see if who we have work out early on?

Anyway Kang at 3rd with Moran. Newman at SS with Erik. Who hopefully gets back to how he was hitting in Indy. Frazier needs to continue his hitting at 2B. Bell needs to bounce back.

Cant see pitching only needing our bats to score 1 or 2 for the win every game obviously but should be the case here and there with 3-4 getting it done. First month or two can be all over the place before things settle down. Just avoid the 4 game series sweeps.

Interested in Indy this year. Hayes, Tucker and Craig IF. Martin and Reynolds OF.

Can laugh at payroll but still looking forward to this season. Now its about making the right moves. And fixing things if they are struggling...instead of letting a 14-32 stretch do them in.

 

[Winger for Hire]

Biertempfel was on The Fan yesterday...

• Gonzo is probably the everyday SS
• Reyes will make the team
• Moran is a bench guy
• Pirates aren't sure what to do with Kingham and Brault
• Liriano may be an opener and be piggy backed by Lyles
• Last spot may be down to Newman/Kramer/extra lefty in the pen
• Tucker and Hayes will be playing everyday in Indy, Newman/Kramer (pending MLB roster) will be 2B

 

[DJ Spinoza]

Interesting in some respects. One thing that the Gonzalez move might be quietly saying is how little the confidence is in Newman. It's easy to be skeptical of Gonzalez himself (and I think absolutely correct), but that's the way I'm interpreting that move coupled with Newman potentially just being optioned. And in fact maybe optioning him isn't a terrible idea – thinking cynically, even if he goes on an offensive tear and then can come up and replace Gonzalez and hit MLB pitching extremely well for three weeks, that'd be better than a season of ups and downs that doesn't really do much.

Why NH had to be a try-hard and manufacture Gonzalez rather than just sign Jose Iglesias is hard to say, other than cheapness, but maybe they think Gonzalez can be adequate enough as a stopgap and gives them a bench asset that they don't otherwise really have over the next few years.

Although he had a bad last appearance, I'd still rather not lose Kingham for nothing. I don't think he has any upside in the bullpen, but maybe he can reinvent himself somewhat as a Jeanmar Gomez type.

 

[xlm34]

I really hope Gonzalez has a short leash if he can’t hit. The whole move just reeks of arrogance to me.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

I think today's lineup is what we'll see in a week and a half on opening day:

Frazier
Marte
Dickerson
Bell
Cervelli
Chisenhall
Kang
Gonzalez
Taillon

A lot hinges on Kang hitting for some power. That could drive that part of the lineup if Cervelli and Chisenhall are getting on base quite a bit. It basically gives you two little sequences that you hope can work out, plus two relative black holes in the #8-9 spots.

My worry with Gonzalez is that he's basically going to just slap some singles now and then and not really bring much defensively. It's awesome if he can make some highlight plays, but the pressure needs to be on: our margin for error is so thin (and designed to be thin by the people who have assembled and paid for the team) that an error on a routine play can easily cost us a game.

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

Dickerson hangs back on a 1-2 changeup and hits a lazer out to right center.

Really nice swing.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'm getting concerned with Bell at this point, he hasn't shown any sort of progression in the majors at this point and I'm starting to doubt any progression is going to come. He's still bad defensively and isn't good enough with the bat to compensate for that.

 

[Empoleon8771]

My worry with Gonzalez is that he's basically going to just slap some singles now and then and not really bring much defensively. It's awesome if he can make some highlight plays, but the pressure needs to be on: our margin for error is so thin (and designed to be thin by the people who have assembled and paid for the team) that an error on a routine play can easily cost us a game.

If Gonzalez just ends up a single/double hitter that is good defensively, I'm perfectly fine with that from the SS position and the #8 hitter. He seems like he has been good defensively in the past, so I'm not too worried about that with him going forward.

Speaking of which, he just hit a double to put the Pirates up 4-1. A Cervelli single, Chissenhall ground rule double and a Kang ground-out (good defensive play by Dalbec to take away the single IMO) got them their 3rd run.

 

[td_ice]

Hahaha.....

Joe Block describing the a pop up catch by Pitcher Liriano. "he made that look easy."

Bob Walk: "well.....it is easy."

 

[Son Goku]

Nice strikeout by Liriano

 

[DJ Spinoza]

If Gonzalez just ends up a single/double hitter that is good defensively, I'm perfectly fine with that from the SS position and the #8 hitter. He seems like he has been good defensively in the past, so I'm not too worried about that with him going forward.

Speaking of which, he just hit a double to put the Pirates up 4-1. A Cervelli single, Chissenhall ground rule double and a Kang ground-out (good defensive play by Dalbec to take away the single IMO) got them their 3rd run.

Yeah, I don't think he makes or breaks the offense no matter what. I guess what I'm saying is that he needs to be pretty much flawless as a defensive specialist. If he hits for ok average or something, it will be a bonus.

 

[td_ice]

Marte goes DEEEEEEEEP!! 3 run shot.

7-1 Bucs.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

That's the second one this spring I've seen Marte just launch into orbit. I'm not sure really how apt this description is, but when he crushes them, his swing is so effortless that it's something like him just sending it to the moon with his wrists.

 

[Son Goku]

Marte with a bomb

 

[td_ice]

That's the second one this spring I've seen Marte just launch into orbit. I'm not sure really how apt this description is, but when he crushes them, his swing is so effortless that it's something like him just sending it to the moon with his wrists.

Yeah, I was about to follow up with similar. That was a sweet, nice and easy swing.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Yeah, I was about to follow up with similar. That was a sweet, nice and easy swing.

And he doesn't look unusually big like he did in, ahem, 2017.

 

[td_ice]

And he doesn't look unusually big like he did in, ahem, 2017.

Would get great to see him "put it all together". As Bob Walks mentions all the tools Marte has, but hasn't had any consistency.

 

[Son Goku]

Would get great to see him "put it all together". As Bob Walks mentions all the tools Marte has, but hasn't had any consistency.

Has all the tools to be one of the best in the game.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Would get great to see him "put it all together". As Bob Walks mentions all the tools Marte has, but hasn't had any consistency.

Marte is what he is offensively at this point. He is above-average but he's already over 30 and season-to-season he's been remarkably consistent as an offensive player. Look at his numbers outside of his shortened 2017...his OPS has to have one of the lowest standard deviations in the league.

He's still a reasonable bet to be our best position player, though.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

Mostly minor-leaguers, but again, stuff-wise Burdi looks quite good. He's more than worth rostering for the minimum amount of time, and might have some upside as a late innings option.

One thing that's flown a little bit under the radar this spring is that Crick has had a number of poor outings. I think the Kela-Vazquez combination is about as iron-clad as you'd want, but it's easy to forget how shaky Crick was last year early on. He may just need longer to get into the swing of things, and spring training can be tossed aside pretty easily for a reliever, but it's worth monitoring. If he struggles a little bit, RichRod is a safe fallback, but regardless, I'd like to see Hurdle not be quite as rigid in his bullpen use. Maybe Kela can be the primary setup guy, but he should be focusing on matchups, even down to how certain players might fare against pitchers who are more slider vs. curveball heavy.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

I really hope Gonzalez has a short leash if he can’t hit. The whole move just reeks of arrogance to me.

I really love how when any team like a player more tha a message board poster. It must be aliens ... I mean arrogance.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

I don't see why it's going too far to say that the Gonzalez move is arrogance. It's not really armchair quarterbacking to say that they are trying to manufacture value out of a player who hasn't had a chance due to the depth of the team he was on, in a manner very similar to making Colin Moran 1B in the Gerrit Cole trade.

Obviously there's potential upside in doing it, and they could be certainly be proven right, but it seems to me that arrogance is exactly what it was/is. Jose Iglesias got a minor league invite to camp for an equal or worse team and accepted it, so it's not like it would have even taken 10 million to secure him or something.

I'm at this point a profound skeptic towards Gonzalez, and I hope I'm wrong. NH hits or comes within the vicinity of hitting on these kinds of moves sometimes, but he's had his share of misses as well. I just don't really see a scenario where Gonzalez's upside isn't exactly the same thing that Iglesias would bring, except with some ups and downs on routine plays. The most charitable interpretation I can come up with for NH is that Nutting forbade him from spending anything more than a few million in free agency, and so he moved quickly on someone the scouts like, missing that Iglesias' market would never take shape.

 

[xlm34]

I don't see why it's going too far to say that the Gonzalez move is arrogance. It's not really armchair quarterbacking to say that they are trying to manufacture value out of a player who hasn't had a chance due to the depth of the team he was on, in a manner very similar to making Colin Moran 1B in the Gerrit Cole trade.

Obviously there's potential upside in doing it, and they could be certainly be proven right, but it seems to me that arrogance is exactly what it was/is. Jose Iglesias got a minor league invite to camp for an equal or worse team and accepted it, so it's not like it would have even taken 10 million to secure him or something.

I'm at this point a profound skeptic towards Gonzalez, and I hope I'm wrong. NH hits or comes within the vicinity of hitting on these kinds of moves sometimes, but he's had his share of misses as well. I just don't really see a scenario where Gonzalez's upside isn't exactly the same thing that Iglesias would bring, except with some ups and downs on routine plays. The most charitable interpretation I can come up with for NH is that Nutting forbade him from spending anything more than a few million in free agency, and so he moved quickly on someone the scouts like, missing that Iglesias' market would never take shape.

Yeah and it’s not like I’m going to root for him to fail, but this type of move seems to rarely work out for the Pirates. It’s not a perfect comparison but it seems like when they tried to fill the hole at first base with Jeff Clement.

 

[Winger for Hire]

I'm now super invested in Bell finding that power stroke again since I just bought a fantasy share.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I'm now super invested in Bell finding that power stroke again since I just bought a fantasy share.

I'm invested in Bell going up to the plate with a cogent, consistent hitting philosophy in general.

He's in trouble if he doesn't step forward with the bat this year.