OT: Raise the Jolly Roger: Offseason at the Crossroads

[KIRK]

Has Huntington given his "blah blah blah...financial flexibility...blah blah blah" statement yet?

Not yet.

Operative word YET.

 

[Winger for Hire]

It's now salary redistribution

 

[Winger for Hire]

I'd be OK with this

 

[domaug]

I'd be OK with this

that would be a pretty solid return for Cervelli IMO. i don't know how legit the rumor is but it's a deal I'd do

 

[Winger for Hire]

Perrotto is a pretty solid source

 

[cheesedanish87]

You could do worse then Stripling, but i'm not that high on him.

I just felt like his success was kind of fluky.

He was really good early in the year then he struggled to the point that he wasn't even on their playoff roster.

 

[Winger for Hire]

I don't disagree with the warning flag, but you'd be hard pressed to get back another MLB talent of his quality for Cervelli.

It also frees up more money while keeping the roster talent level around roughly the same. Again, it's all about how/if they decide to use that freed up money.

 

[TimmyD]

So the Blue Jays cut Tulowitzki... probably not likely for the Pirates, but maybe?

 

[Winger for Hire]

So the Blue Jays cut Tulowitzki... probably not likely for the Pirates, but maybe?

I'd pass, personally, but wouldn't be upset with a low salary offer, but no promise of a job being handed to him

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

You could do worse then Stripling, but i'm not that high on him.

I just felt like his success was kind of fluky.

He was really good early in the year then he struggled to the point that he wasn't even on their playoff roster.

He was up and down but it wasnt a jeff locke situation where he ran on babip for half a year... 2.99 xFIP

 

[Winger for Hire]

If you really step back and look at everything, IF the Cervelli/Strip deal goes down, you have a team that's pretty much projected at the same win level (82 to 85 wins), but with $35m in free salary (if it's to be believed they will spend to what they claim). That's not a terrible situation to be in at the Winter Meetings. That's a financial cudgel with most teams looking to ahead salary so they can spend. It even opens up some trade avenues where you might be able to get some of those players teams are looking to shed without having to part with much because you can absorb the $9m or whatever cost fully.

Again, it all comes down to ownership and the FO to actually use the financial flexibly they could have. I'm not fully prepared to put my entire faith in that, but I'm seeing a possible silver lining and the Archer deal gives me hope still. I'm not expecting it, but I'm not shutting it out completely. They still have to prove it to us.

 

[TNT87]

Cervelli will have a couple of trips on the DL any way. I think that would be a very good trade.

 

[Winger for Hire]

Cervelli is also one foul tip off the mask away from moving out from behind the dish or hanging the spikes up for good.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

It would be almost unreal if we could get Stripling for Cervelli.

Please don't get me wrong in my posts - I'm simply saying that it's extremely early in the offseason and I'd caution against reacting too strongly to anything, especially something like moving an expensive backend starter. I fully understand the cynicism behind the reactions and share the general pessimism myself, but at least from a more neutral standpoint, it's been encouraging to see Huntington moving more swiftly this offseason, as though there is a bit of an overarching plan behind things.

I'm not entirely sanguine about the remaining dominos, but I do have to assume between the aggression for Chisenhall as an above replacement stopgap, and going back to the big investments in Archer and Kela, there has to be more than simply a reshuffling of smaller parts at play this offseason. For example, even if the next moves to take place were this Cervelli trade and a minor move for Ahmed, we'd be in a slightly better position independently of whether or not money was going back into the team. We'd still be firmly in the mediocrity window that Huntington has us in anyways, but the broader picture would be more savvy small market GMing. And if we moved in those ways and then used some of the money for Dozier or Lowrie on a short deal, I'd be pretty happy with the status of the offseason, even if arguably we're just a younger and more cost-controlled team who has a chance to win 85 games.

To put it even more starkly and perhaps controversially, I'm just not entirely convinced that any reasonable set of moves can do much to chance how one should look at the team on paper. The best improvements would be a Bell renaissance, Moran developing a power stroke, and Archer finding a way to be an ace again. We aren't signing Machado. We certainly could and should have been in the mix for a guy like Segura, but even if we had landed him for basically spare parts, we'd be better off on paper but I'm still not sure we'd be firmly in WC contention in the way that we will be if it's mid-May and Moran has 8 HRs and Archer has tossed 3-4 absolute gems, etc. That's just the reality of the situation with this team right now, for better or worse.

 

[cheesedanish87]

Supposedly Bogaerts is available because Boston is trying to stay under the luxury tax.

He would be a one year rental for the Pirates, but man i'd love to have him for one year.

And even if you lost him after this year you could get a draft pick for him if you qualify him.

It would be the type of move you make that you expect the Pirates to make after the Archer trade to go all in to try and win right now.

 

[Doogle]

The Pirates are not going to spend any of the Nova savings or any of their financial flexibility on an impact player, and you're kidding yourself if you expect or even hope differently.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

Seems to be playing fast and loose with the trade winds shifting moment by moment at the meetings, but who knows how things actually circulate. Heyman is reporting that practically the entire Dodgers team is being made available and given their playoff struggles and how bad the catching situation turned out for them last year, I could see them being a bit desperate for someone like Cervelli. Would be a lot easier to replace Stripling than Bellinger, even if Realmuto would be a big upgrade over Cervelli most likely.

I'd happily settle for a moderate SS upgrade and a Sipp/Diekman move to firm up the bullpen even more in this next little bit of the offseason.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Dammit, pulling off Stripling would have been a fantastic return for Cervelli. I'm really disappointed that trade didn't happen.

 

[Still Apps]

Dammit, pulling off Stripling would have been a fantastic return for Cervelli. I'm really disappointed that trade didn't happen.

Stripling for Cervelli would be a good baseball trade for both clubs, and you never know what may happen down the road. Talks initiated at the winter meetings have been known to bear fruit a good while after the meetings have concluded. Fingers crossed that it happens.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

I would guess that it would need to be more complex than what Perrotto seemed to be suggesting. Either the Pirates paying down the risk significantly, or kicking in a decent prospect, etc. It still could happen, and I think there are decent indications that whatever will happen with Cervelli may not be decided until something happens with at least Realmuto or Grandal.

With the dust settling, I am starting to think the Nova deal may be primarily about protecting Kingham's roster spot for now. And while Kingham had some poor starts, he showed a lot of initial promise (in MLB) and has a decent pedigree. With Keller ideally already on the horizon for the 2019 team, the move makes a lot of sense, whether we get creative with the 5th starter spot or in some other ways or not. However, the basic point that we shipped off a starter without a similar replacement is still valid, and as the days turn into weeks without repurposing Nova's salary towards a bat of some kind, people have every right to be frustrated. It's not like it would have been too difficult to move Nova in the event that someone starts pushing for his spot early in the season.

 

[dogthateats]

I still think they will add some one good, but not elite.

 

[Winger for Hire]

*barfs*

 

[domaug]

there's who they think will replace Nova! a cheaper and worse Nova!!!

everyone jump on the Pirates bandwagon before it fills up!!

ugh.

 

[Empoleon8771]

What's even the purpose of lowering payroll to that level? Seriously, it's just infuriating because there's no justification for it beyond "lining Nutting's wallet". It's cutting $10 million from what the team was at last year (and $20 million in the last 2 years) for literally no reason, when the team is already very profitable (about $35 million a year in profit according to Forbes).

 

[cheesedanish87]

Most owners in sports number 1 goal is winning.

These owners already have enough money and don't need to make money off their teams.

Nutting is one of the few owners who cares more about making money then winning.

It a shame, Pirate fans deserve better.