OT: Raise the Jolly Roger: Fire Sale Edition?

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JimmyTwoTimes

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Apr 13, 2010
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Why is that?

Yeah i dont agree...especially with them all out there together. They are already good on their own, but all 3 combined? Even better.

Also, Newman is good at SS so having him at 2B is a luxury.

On the offensive side, once Tucker gets better at the plate he can start swiping bases like he did throughout the minors(leading the system two years in a row). Newman decent at SBs as well and should get better. Has 10 but caught 7 times. That will improve. Hayes is a smart base runner as well.

Like I said we will eventually have a nice mix of elite D, base running, Avg and Power.

Now get new coaching.

In the meantime get that top 5 pick. Can land one of Austin Martin 3B/2B , Blaze Jordan 3B/1B , and Patrick Bailey C. Would be hard to pass up on the first two if they are there but if Bailey has another good season as a junior(a switch hitter who is great behind the plate and .300 avg with nice power and walked more than he struck out , 6'2 at 21 years old ...should be able to move up the system in time to be up with Cruz, Swaggerty, Mason Martin, etc) Id root for him to be our pick with Catcher being as big of a need as it is. Yeah you dont pick for need but if hes also one of the BPAs then works out perfect.
 

JimmyTwoTimes

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With the FO coming right out and saying they won't be getting a legit arm, or arms, for next season, they HAVE to get Marvel and Brubaker innings in the coming month.

Marvel for sure. No reason he shouldn't be up. But Brubaker got shut down it seems. Was on rehab assignment over a month ago then was done. Hopefully not something that will keep him out next year as well. Another unfortunate injury since he would have been our first call up early in the year. Cody Bolton also went on IL. This pitching needs to stay healthy next year....this season was ridiculous. But also shows how much depth you need. Between injuries and certain bullpen guys struggling at times.....you need guys ready in AAA or even AA. I guess the one good thing from all of the injuries we had this year is more pitchers got chances they normally wouldn't have. Up in Pitt and even moved up quicker in our system. We'll see how the rest of this season goes and then ST.

I can see them signing a decent FA pitcher tho. The pressure will be on. Especially after losing Taillon. And dont underestimate what another full month of embarrassing play can do for changes to be made
 

JimmyTwoTimes

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^^^

Encouraging. But if they didn't spend to add more hitting during that 3 year stretch we made the playoffs Im not shocked his stance hasnt changed. We had the one of the best staffs in the league back then...add a few impact bats to go with Cutch(and Pedro at times) and we may have won it all. But nothing.

Now this window we have(and will continue to add) the bats. Need top end starters. Do believe our pen will be fine going forward with Santana/Burdi/Kuhl coming back to go with Rich Rod, Crick, Kela, and Vazquez. And Cederlind being up in a year or so(reaches triple digits) so we have plenty of options. Even Feliz is getting better. Maybe our rotation improves but why even chance it if we do have the lineup thats good enough to compete the next 3 or so years?

Then again our payroll is at what...70 mil right now? Didn't it get up to over 100mil back in those playoff years? So will we get back up to that number?
 

JimmyTwoTimes

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Article on Cole Tucker just came out on MILB.com. Referring to what we were talking about ...

IL notes: Tucker trying to shed label

I think the bat will be more than fine eventually. He has the confidence thats needed.

Really interested to see if they play both him and Hayes at same time in Sept.
 

JimmyTwoTimes

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And Hayes leads off with his 10th HR. Back to back at bats now since last night. Looks like hes getting excited for Sept call up.

O Cruz with another RBI(single) and SB. Handling AA with ease.
 

ImporterExporter

"You're a boring old man"
Jun 18, 2013
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If we don't spend on the rotation were gonna lose 100 games next year. Book it.

Who's our draft target if we pick say 5th?

Come to think of it. Why would anyone sign here?
 

Pens x

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Oct 8, 2016
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Make some kind of move here, Buccos.
Clearly the team has tuned out Hurdle. Get rid of his ass.

I accidentally listened to Zangrilli’s pregame coverage on the Fan, and he said the team would
struggle tonight because they didn’t get back to Pittsburgh until 3:00 am. It’s almost like their game wasn’t until 7 pm tonight.
 
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Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
Jan 30, 2012
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Maybe Jay Zed should buy the Pirates, so we can finally be less of a joke. Because J-Z will just flip it for profit again anyway.
 

JBose7

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Jun 7, 2013
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Firing Hurdle looks good but actually accomplishes nothing. The philosophical approach to hitting and pitching is KILLING any prospect who gets drafted into the farm system. that is what needs to change. Pitch to contact is taught but the gm is drafting powee arms?? Then when they get up to the majors they gotta be retooled?? Id get rid of Huntington and completely clear out this front office. But then again who cares? why should fans care if ownership dont
 

JimmyTwoTimes

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Apr 13, 2010
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How do people who give the Pirates money justify it?

Casual fans dont care.

Would love to see a boycott to force change.

As for our system tonight...got some good starts from every pitcher.

Shortridge(high A) - 6 IP 1ER 6Ks
Florez (Bristol) - 6 IP 0 ER 7Ks on 59 pitches.

Quinn Priester 4.1 IP 1ER 3Ks on 28 pitches.

All of those in our top 30. Shortridge had a good season in Bradenton bringing his ERA down to 3.15 after today. They are high on Santiego Florez who had his best game bringing ERA down to 3.45. And Priester with his 3.10 ERA...taking it slow with him.

Sulser for Altoona also went 6IP 1ER 4Ks on 65 pitches. Usually coming out of the pen...not bad for his 4th start.


And Holmes did good tonight. Not to mention we are finally seeing Feliz be reliable. This is his best stretch with us and in his career so far. Hopefully keeps this up and into next season. Becoming that quality reliever we need, especially him being apart of the Cole trade.

Just need to keep getting good outings from as many as possible and maybe a few actually continue it when they get up to Pitt.

After Searage is fired
 

JBose7

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Jun 7, 2013
622
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Casual fans dont care.

Would love to see a boycott to force change.

As for our system tonight...got some good starts from every pitcher.

Shortridge(high A) - 6 IP 1ER 6Ks
Florez (Bristol) - 6 IP 0 ER 7Ks on 59 pitches.

Quinn Priester 4.1 IP 1ER 3Ks on 28 pitches.

All of those in our top 30. Shortridge had a good season in Bradenton bringing his ERA down to 3.15 after today. They are high on Santiego Florez who had his best game bringing ERA down to 3.45. And Priester with his 3.10 ERA...taking it slow with him.

Sulser for Altoona also went 6IP 1ER 4Ks on 65 pitches. Usually coming out of the pen...not bad for his 4th start.


And Holmes did good tonight. Not to mention we are finally seeing Feliz be reliable. This is his best stretch with us and in his career so far. Hopefully keeps this up and into next season. Becoming that quality reliever we need, especially him being apart of the Cole trade.

Just need to keep getting good outings from as many as possible and maybe a few actually continue it when they get up to Pitt.

After Searage is fired
It has to be good ole Uncle Ray. These guys light up the minors even up to aaa but they get here uncle Ray changes up dumb stuff.. ( ie. Glassnow)
 

DanielPlainview

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Apr 28, 2009
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Glasnow's problems in MLB were inevitable with his lack of command and high walk rate. Searage was just not the guy to fix him and the Pirates weren't going give him the time in MLB to work things out.
 

Winger for Hire

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It has to be good ole Uncle Ray. These guys light up the minors even up to aaa but they get here uncle Ray changes up dumb stuff.. ( ie. Glassnow)

Ray doesn't change anything (anything major at least. Any coach is going to tweak and suggest slightly more efficient movements and point out flaws) when they get to the majors, the pitchers are just unprepared to not get by on their natural stuff. AAA to MLB is like the jump from RK and A- to Hi A ball.

Those are the levels where coaching is very important. when you make the jump to Hi A, you leave behind the league where you can get by with a dominant FB and a single mediocre breaking pitch. The hitters that make it to that level can hit that weak breaking stuff and have a more selective eye. Similarly, the jump from AAA to the majors is another big step where a lot of organizational filler sits. At AAA a pitcher with refined natural stuff and passable control can a do a lot of damage without locating well and basic pitch sequencing. This is where I feel that the Pirates are dropping the ball a lot, mainly the pitch sequencing. They're having pitchers with very good natural stuff throw the organizational philosophy of "Get an out in 3 pitches or less" and it's not forcing the pitchers, mainly the starters, to sequence effectively since they can get some quick whiffs from bad hitters and/or a lot of bad contact on chasing pitches. So when they make that jump, they're not prepared to cerebrally attack hitters. A majority of MLB hitters are going to spit on breaking balls if you don't set them up properly and/or can't throw it constantly for a strike and sit on the fastball.

However, I think this approach is why they are able to churn out and maximize their bullpen arms. 3 pitches or less is basically a reliever's mentality and working with them to hone that allows any pitcher only going an inning or two to play up their stuff and have a reliever's mentality from the get go. They don't have to worry about seeing that batter again or having a repeat sequence being exploited later down the lineup.

This isn't to say I think Searage should stay. I've been beating the move on for Searage drum for about 3 seasons now. I don't think his method of fixing pitchers is working anymore, and hasn't worked since Benedict left for Miami. I believe Benedict was the one who was able to spot the talent that was ripe for Ray's treatment. With Ray and Jim, they hit big and often in reclamation projects with AJ, Liriano, Volquez, Happ, Vance Worley, and the first step of Charlie Morton as well as bullpen mainstays like Grilli, Watson, Justin Wilson, Melancon, Hughes, Blanton. Without Benedict most, if not all, of the Pirates' similar pitchers have flamed out (Lyles, Niese, Voglesong, Hudson, LeBlanc, Bastardo part II, Benoit, Rookie Davis).
 
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Scandale du Jour

JordanStaal#1Fan
Mar 11, 2002
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How do people who give the Pirates money justify it?

Because I love baseball and enjoy watching it?

I mean, I get being angry at the team, but bashing them every day and saying people shouldn't spend a dime on them is rather excessive.

PNC Park is gorgeous and fun to go to. At the end of the day, it is about entertainement and that's why I'll go back again, even if they suck and even if it costs me a lot to come to Pittsburgh. I love the city and the team. That's enough for me. Is the way the team is managed frustrating? Hell yeah! But I still support, because I still love baseball. Maybe that makes me part of the problem, but I prefer my way to apathy and constant whining.
 

NewAgeOutlaw

Belie Dat!
Jul 15, 2011
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What I don't get is fans who shame other fans for being fans just because ownership sucks.

A boycott that forces a franchise to change at the ownership level is such a fantasy. There are just not enough people outraged enough to turn down a major league baseball game in a great park for 20 bucks.
 

JimmyTwoTimes

Registered User
Apr 13, 2010
19,958
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Ray doesn't change anything (anything major at least. Any coach is going to tweak and suggest slightly more efficient movements and point out flaws) when they get to the majors, the pitchers are just unprepared to not get by on their natural stuff. AAA to MLB is like the jump from RK and A- to Hi A ball.

Those are the levels where coaching is very important. when you make the jump to Hi A, you leave behind the league where you can get by with a dominant FB and a single mediocre breaking pitch. The hitters that make it to that level can hit that weak breaking stuff and have a more selective eye. Similarly, the jump from AAA to the majors is another big step where a lot of organizational filler sits. At AAA a pitcher with refined natural stuff and passable control can a do a lot of damage without locating well and basic pitch sequencing. This is where I feel that the Pirates are dropping the ball a lot, mainly the pitch sequencing. They're having pitchers with very good natural stuff throw the organizational philosophy of "Get an out in 3 pitches or less" and it's not forcing the pitchers, mainly the starters, to sequence effectively since they can get some quick whiffs from bad hitters and/or a lot of bad contact on chasing pitches. So when they make that jump, they're not prepared to cerebrally attack hitters. A majority of MLB hitters are going to spit on breaking balls if you don't set them up properly and/or can't throw it constantly for a strike and sit on the fastball.

However, I think this approach is why they are able to churn out and maximize their bullpen arms. 3 pitches or less is basically a reliever's mentality and working with them to hone that allows any pitcher only going an inning or two to play up their stuff and have a reliever's mentality from the get go. They don't have to worry about seeing that batter again or having a repeat sequence being exploited later down the lineup.

This isn't to say I think Searage should stay. I've been beating the move on for Searage drum for about 3 seasons now. I don't think his method of fixing pitchers is working anymore, and hasn't worked since Benedict left for Miami. I believe Benedict was the one who was able to spot the talent that was ripe for Ray's treatment. With Ray and Jim, they hit big and often in reclamation projects with AJ, Liriano, Volquez, Happ, Vance Worley, and the first step of Charlie Morton as well as bullpen mainstays like Grilli, Watson, Justin Wilson, Melancon, Hughes, Blanton. Without Benedict most, if not all, of the Pirates' similar pitchers have flamed out (Lyles, Niese, Voglesong, Hudson, LeBlanc, Bastardo part II, Benoit, Rookie Davis).

Good post. Agree completely.

And its a shame because I do feel they have been pretty good at scouting players and drafting...especially later rounds and not given enough credit since we dont see these pitchers pan out once they reach Pitt.

So I hope this latest group of talent(from 2016 on) like Cody Bolton, Aaron Shortridge, Brad Case, Osvaldo Bido, Alex Manasa, Ashcraft, Priester, and so on arent ruined by Searage if/when they get to MLB.

And when reading the scouting reports on alot of them...." Plus fastball and slider/curve, but havent had the need to develop changeup yet". Why not? Its the same prob we keep running into once pitchers are up since they got by on using their fasbtall and slider/curve but havent mastered the changeup. Same prob with Keller as we speak...and has been all season that hes been working on. Why has it took this long? I can understand it with those who dont have their FB mastered yet, etc....but Keller was already dominating. He should have been working on his changeup awhile ago.

And we heard Baz talk about the Pirates approach . So I do think they've been better than alot of teams in finding talent. Developing that talent? Another story.

Cant keep ruining young pitchers. Keller, Bolton, and then IMO Aaron Shortridge will become one of our top pitching prospects. If Searage is still here and all 3 fail...anymore proof needed? Not that there needs to be anyway.
 

Winger for Hire

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I agree that their scouting isn't the problem. One just has to look at some of their drafts where they took some late round picks on younger guys who ended up not signing and get drafted in the first couple rounds next time through. Trea Turner, Walker Buehler, Paul DeJong, Jake Lamb, Nick Lodolo all were Pirate picks that didn't sign and improved their stock dramatically after and went higher their next draft eligible year. They can certainly spot talent. They just can't seem to get those kids to get that last step in development.
 
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