OT: Raise the Jolly Roger: Draft Day!

[DJ Spinoza]

With the minor league teams all having Mondays off, I wonder if today is the day we will see a handful of promotions. It's a little hard to think that having the draft/signing period + trade deadline over will do the trick, since it's not like those should factor in all that much, but we're getting close to the point where it doesn't make a ton of sense in terms of experience if we don't pull the trigger.

I do think there might be a handful of roster moves still in the works. Obviously, Brault and probably Moran are going to get activated this week, but maybe one or two other players will be shuffled as part of this, and the period of time for a waiver claim from the deadline DFA's could extend through Friday. My guess is that it would just be minor league promotions + any requisite moves for Brault and Moran. It sounds like the plan is for Marcano to play every day in AAA, and the only other possibilities are probably Alford and Tucker. The former is still striking out way too much, and unless Polanco is going to be swiftly DFA'd in the middle of playing pretty well, there probably aren't ABs if you assume Park will get some OF starts too. The latter is having a nice handful of games but probably should play every day.

My money is on a small number of necessary moves to do the shuffling, and anyone else from AAA being in the MLB mix won't happen until rosters expand (and even then, they don't expand greatly). Ideally, I would like to see Fraizer and Mitchell get bumped a level each and beyond that, I'm not sure. I really hope that Castro is not sent to Indianapolis. I also think there's a decent enough chance that no promotions happen, since Altoona is more crowded now with three new additions from the trade deadline and Cruz still set to return.

 

[Gallatin]

With the minor league teams all having Mondays off, I wonder if today is the day we will see a handful of promotions. It's a little hard to think that having the draft/signing period + trade deadline over will do the trick, since it's not like those should factor in all that much, but we're getting close to the point where it doesn't make a ton of sense in terms of experience if we don't pull the trigger.

I do think there might be a handful of roster moves still in the works. Obviously, Brault and probably Moran are going to get activated this week, but maybe one or two other players will be shuffled as part of this, and the period of time for a waiver claim from the deadline DFA's could extend through Friday. My guess is that it would just be minor league promotions + any requisite moves for Brault and Moran. It sounds like the plan is for Marcano to play every day in AAA, and the only other possibilities are probably Alford and Tucker. The former is still striking out way too much, and unless Polanco is going to be swiftly DFA'd in the middle of playing pretty well, there probably aren't ABs if you assume Park will get some OF starts too. The latter is having a nice handful of games but probably should play every day.

My money is on a small number of necessary moves to do the shuffling, and anyone else from AAA being in the MLB mix won't happen until rosters expand (and even then, they don't expand greatly). Ideally, I would like to see Fraizer and Mitchell get bumped a level each and beyond that, I'm not sure. I really hope that Castro is not sent to Indianapolis. I also think there's a decent enough chance that no promotions happen, since Altoona is more crowded now with three new additions from the trade deadline and Cruz still set to return.

As far as the world of middle infielders go - want to see Castro, Chavis, & Park rotating through middle infield & outfield on the Big Club. Marcano & Bae get the time @ Indianapolis. Then Castillo & Cruz @ Altoona, leave Peguero & Gonzalez in Greensboro.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

I wouldn't mind that for sure -- I assume Chavis would have been brought up with Park if he was coming to Pittsburgh, and in my estimation it's fine for him to try and get acclimated to AAA pitchers for a little bit, since he's been so bad at the MLB level this year.

The real issue going forward is that Shelton is probably only going to give so much playing time to various players, with Newman and Polanco obviously standing out as people that fans think have no real place on the 2021 team. You could toss Gamel in there as well, but given his performance, one year of arb left, and our depth, I would assume he sticks around.

It's good to focus on the middle infield and I think Cherington clearly doesn't think much of what's there. One of Newman or Gonzalez has to be out of the equation next year IMO, and Tucker is clearly on thin ice, though BC's unprompted bringing him up on his show yesterday is a little intriguing. I am fully expecting Newman to now suddenly have a lot of hits fall and keep getting playing time, but at least for right now there seem to be a decent number of ABs for Castro and Park. The latter needs to be back in the lineup tonight, but I worry it is at the expense of the former -- one copout for Shelton is that we face a LHP, so maybe Park will be in RF instead of Polanco.

Edit- was thinking Park is a switch hitter, but he's lefty only. Might mean Difo in RF and Park on the bench.

 

[ImporterExporter]

So accurate. For me the frustration with Keller is the "delicate, potential-filled flower" stuff we have to endure from the team/broadcasters/fans. Look at his stuff versus Brubaker's. For that matter, look at his stuff versus Wil Crowe's. It isn't better. He can still get another few starts but let's stop applying the top prospect label. The stuff doesn't play at this level (which you don't really know until you see it), therefore he is not a top prospect.

It was cringe worthy listening to that broadcast. I've never seen a guy nitpicked that hard, over as long a period of time as they were doing to Keller.

He was a former top 5 prospect for us so they're trying to find some silver lining and present that to the fanbase but you could absolutely tell Brown and Walk are done with Keller. Even they see it. At some point, the writing is simply that clear. It was kind of hard to listen to such a focused attention on a guy struggling but it really needs to be highlighted that these performances simply can't be tolerated anymore.

For Keller, he either can't command pitches and walks a bunch of guys or he's getting way too much of the plate, his fastball was obliterated (even upstairs location wise) yesterday. Guys were barrling up many of the pitches and putting them in gaps, down the line.

It's a combination of having a flat, dead straight fastball, not being able to locate it (or any pitches really) consistently, and mental strain.

Sucks, but he's done here.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

I'm probably going to repeat myself from several other posts in these threads, not anticipating anyone will really agree with me, but here goes. I think the broadcasts are excruciating when he pitches because Brown and Walk especially comment on every single pitch like it's a do or die situation.

I think step 1 for Keller is still command, and not simply his stuff. When he locates the slider well, it's a very effective pitch, and the curveball is pretty good as well. If he can locate the fastball, it's also effective enough -- yes, it's too hittable, but it's not that hitters are always going to crush it. They will always crush it if he is predictable or leaves it where it can get tattooed, but this is true for most pitchers. Keller doesn't have deception and I think you can actually see how in-between his stuff can be, and not simply that it's bad. There were a lot of times where he left fastballs up, and hitters were not able to catch up and fouled them off.

The result of that, however, is pretty much always the same, and it's bad. It causes him to throw more pitches, and then he cannot locate other pitches and eventually they do either get a mistake offspeed pitch or are able to crush the fastball. The amount of hard contact he gave up in general yesterday was insane, which is why I think the best that can be said is that he got pretty lucky to put up a mediocre start.

So I think it's still a question of command, and then being able to go from there. I don't really see the sense in giving up on him, but to each his own. I do think having a cockier attitude with the offspeed stuff will help him, because he needs to be able to spam good sliders and that will be half the battle.

Unfortunately, I think "going from there" once he has the command issues more hammered out is still very nebulous, and raises the question of what the point of the AAA stint even was. My read is that Keller really isn't able to pitch up and above the zone with frequency, and that he should instead ditch or cut way back on the four-seam fastball in order to bring in a two-seamer and live lower in the zone. That might be an offseason, ground up adjustment, and while it's the case that the game has moved in a different direction, sinkerballers have had more success this season. He might have some kind of prayer if the fastball can live at the right level while he never misses with the offspeed stuff, but yesterday the offspeed stuff was left in the heart of the plate several times.

 

[TNT87]

 

[TNT87]

 

[ImporterExporter]

Only rookie ball but it's hard not to like that start haha!

 

[Gallatin]

Only rookie ball but it's hard not to like that start haha!

Sure thing - but let's keep in mind the FCL is a much tougher League than the GCL used to be. Particularly now with all the new college players who would have been starting in Bristol or Morgantown playing.

That's the only reason why I'm not vociferously advocating for a promotion to Low A right away for Po-Yu Chen. The competition is likely getting tougher in upcoming starts right where he is.

 

[Gallatin]

What - we hired a Banda? And he's a lefty? What's not to love?

 

[ImporterExporter]

Reynolds is a gem.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

I did not believe that Reynolds would even be slightly above average as a centerfield defender, and I was extremely wrong.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

I'm sorry, but people who use replay like this in the regular season are case in point why it should no longer be used.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

If there's a decision to make, Shelton will make the wrong one without fail.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I remember early in the season when I had some hope for Evans.

Nah. Go away.

Hayes hit a ball hard to the wall which is nice. Reynolds is still an inferior hitter as a righty, to me.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Wilson getting pulled was stupid. Castro getting pulled was annoying.

Never want to see Evans again.

Get the bums off the f***ing roster.

 

[ChaosAgent]

That should do it for Evans' tenure here.

F*** Shelton for even letting him up there vs. PHing Park. So done with this derp.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

Evans shouldn't be playing and I imagine BC will take the option away from Shelton sooner rather than later, but the real test is Newman. He is not an MLB player, or if he is one, it's a bench player in a situation where we don't actually have anyone with obvious experience to play over him. Obviously, he can easily and with merit be completely benched for anyone else. Use him as a defensive substitution if you are that worried about it.

The only reason I can think as to why BC wouldn't just force the issue and option him (which he can do) is that it might risk alienating veterans or something. But he is, without exaggerating, the worst offensive player in baseball. The sole thing in his offensive game that looks ok is that he almost never strikes out -- by wRC+, he is the worst, and everyone else with him is 20-25%+. You name it, it's abysmal. I wouldn't be surprised if the ISO is pushing some historical record.

At some point, you would think you send the message that a 45 wRC+ isn't going to cut it even on a team careening towards 105 losses. Generally speaking, I don't think it's great for the GM to meddle in the everyday manager decisions, but at a minimum, Newman should not play for a week to give Park a shot.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Evans, Newman, and Polanco have no business on this team. They're simply blocking playing time from people who may or may not be a part of the next window.

If Shelton is just going to replicate the MO of Hurdle, Cherington can step in any time and relieve him of his duties and put someone in there who will actually get in line with what the FO is trying to do. And that's get young players experience and find out what we have in them (to a degree).

 

[TNT87]

Newman had such a nice '19 season too. Talk about falling off a cliff.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

I think Newman is significantly different from anybody else, to be honest. The GM just brought in two more or less ready shortstops, and the shortstop on the roster is maybe having a slightly above average defensive showing while also being historically bad at the plate. The only feasible reason that he could still be getting playing time is to decide if there's anything left to work with there that could lead to him somehow being offered a contract next year.

With Polanco, I suppose the situation has changed a little bit given that Park can play some in the OF, but there's essentially no one that he's taking playing time away from at this point, and he has contributed in different ways offensively and seems to be looking much better again after returning from injury. I know we've seen it all before and I'll spare the argument that he might actually be worth bringing back next year to start if he keeps it up and the DH is coming, but the only player that he and/or Gamel are taking time away from is Oliva


I think it needs to be pretty simple: BC should give a directive to Shelton that Park plays 5/7 games of the week. I don't particularly think there's anybody in Indianapolis who is forcing the issue for playing time beyond this, but the idea that Park was acquired and now will play sporadically on a team going nowhere with a shortstop who has a 50 wRC+ is just absurd. Park and Castro better both be in the lineup tonight, and then also most of the time from now through the end of the month. At that point, when rosters expand (though only slightly), then let's see what the performance of Tucker, Chavis, Oliva, and Alford looks like and decide if anyone deserves a cup of coffee for a few weeks.

The way I see it right now, the latter guys will probably be fighting for bench spots come spring training. Given his contract situation, Tucker is probably a depth option for at least another year since he'll be league minimum, whereas Newman is gone because it'll be his first year of arbitration and we already have Gonzalez if we want that.

 

[BillyOcean]

Jameson Taillon AL Player of the Month for July. 6-0 with a 2.11 ERA last 7 starts. Hmm. It's almost like he increased his trade value immensely. Who would have called this!?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Jameson Taillon AL Player of the Month for July. 6-0 with a 2.11 ERA last 7 starts. Hmm. It's almost like he increased his trade value immensely. Who would have called this!?

I mean he still has an ERA over 4 and Contreras has exploded as a prospect.

The Pirates got an amazing return for Taillon.

 

[BillyOcean]

I mean he still has an ERA over 4 and Contreras has exploded as a prospect.

It's almost like he was working back from an injury and now is returning to form? Crazy!

 

[Empoleon8771]

It's almost like he was working back from an injury and now is returning to form? Crazy!

The Pirates got an amazing return for Taillon so I fundamentally don't understand why you're whining about it.